Info Al Brown/ Liar

[hhmoore]

Thanks Chris.I too am thick headed.Ask HH MOORE.I think he told me that once too.

Rich,
You should probably stop referencing our past issues in unrelated matters (I know you've dragged my name onto at least one other forum without good reason). All anybody has to do is look, or ask, to find the truth about those situations...and they won't reflect positively on you. The whole reason we had an issue was because you misread/misinterpreted something another member posted, saw red, and couldn't shake yourself free of the approach you took (unwarranted attack).
While I have been somewhat critical of you in this thread - in terms of pointing out the difference between your view and what was actually said, some discrepancies in your statements, and the problem I saw with the timing of your post - I have continued to agree that since Al said he would include (more complete) lineage information on the paperwork, he should have done so. You did - inadvertently, it seems - answer one of my questions, though...you stated (post 164) that Al did give you all the information you wanted on the phone. Again, I understand where you are coming from, and that you want something from the breeder for your records...and to show to future customers; but, since you've already stated in this thread that you didn't expect any formal document, it remains unclear to some of us why you are railing on "lineage papers" (which, as I pointed out earlier, were never actually promised...at least in the manner that you keep referencing).

Bottom line is that you had the information from the start, and you are happy with the snake. Do you realize that you made more of a fuss about this than you did about the bad paperwork you received in a different transaction?

 

[Chris Kennard]

Futile is trying to reason with unreasonable people. You did not post in your situation because you knew better. If he was unhappy with his snake or had ANY thought that it was not what he was told, he should have packed it right back up and sent it back.

This thread is full of opinions. Mine is that this thread was absolutely unwarranted. He plans on keeping that snake to breed someday and sell the offspring. How long will that take? Al is not going anywhere.

The man was verbally given the lineage, and he believed it. Al slipped and forgot the photo ID, which he provided ASAP. This was not what Rich wanted. When it was received by the OP, Al was on vacation, and promised to get it to him, once again ASAP. Like you said, it was just a piece of paper. Instead, first morning home he wakes up to this.

What was the total time frame of purchase to now, Rich? Oh yeah, you said you were done. I hope so. I know the answer anyway.

BTW Do your research. I am a good guy, sticking up for another one. You on the other hand.....

Need to learn some patience. Good luck with what you've got so far. I have a feeling buying boas from reputable breeders may start proving difficult if you keep actions like these up. Best wishes to you, and your sweet jungle from Al.

I see your point, for him to pack it "right back up" and send it back would be a much easier solution then simply sending the requested document in the mail. And maybe Al isn't going anywhere, but the OP doesn't know that. I don't either. Maybe I missed a post here. If so, someone please direct me to one that is different from the following said in post 38...Subject: Re: jungle het lipstick male
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 22:11:38 +0000

I can send you pix of the albino jungle fathers parents.. To see the females parents you will have to go to peter kahls site... Litter 19 in the boa birthing record for 2006 as it says on the photo id... I won't be able to get you the pics of the albino jungles parents until Monday when I get home from vacation...
I see a promise to send more PIX. Not lineage documents the OP requested. I don't believe he will have any problems buyong from reputable breeders. Money talks...

 

[smilts]

Yes he did say that to the OP in that email. he was also on vacation and not given time to return and do as promised before this thread was started.

 

[Jesse Van Atta]

And BS walks. His name pops up in a search here as well. People that take the time to read can make up their own mind about it. Both sides have been argued and discussed to no end here.

Buyers are not the only ones who do research before a transaction.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Buyers are not the only ones who do research before a transaction.

True That!

 

[Chris Kennard]

And BS walks. His name pops up in a search here as well. People that take the time to read can make up their own mind about it. Both sides have been argued and discussed to no end here.

Buyers are not the only ones who do research before a transaction.

You must have taken a poll or done an extensive study. I would think that most "reputable" or high end breeders wouldn't have the time to screen so many potential buyers...with cash. Perhaps that's why they don't post here much. Unlike you guys with superior business ethics, they're too busy. Guess I'll have to take your respected 'seller doing research' theory. Oops, I meant to say fact. Surely you wouldn't lie about such a think, assuming you were speaking for the "selling" masses.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Not all reputable, or high end breeders, do it for a living, so some might just have a little more time to check things out. I have a simple word document that I add names too as I go along. Some from BOI threads, some from giving me the run around, some simply because I don't like them and don't want them having any of my animals. It's simple enough when I get an inquiry to open up that doc and scan for names, and then pop in here and do the same.

 

[Jesse Van Atta]

You must have taken a poll or done an extensive study. I would think that most "reputable" or high end breeders wouldn't have the time to screen so many potential buyers...with cash. Perhaps that's why they don't post here much. Unlike you guys with superior business ethics, they're too busy. Guess I'll have to take your respected 'seller doing research' theory. Oops, I meant to say fact. Surely you wouldn't lie about such a think, assuming you were speaking for the "selling" masses.

I have no reason to lie, and was speaking for myself. I care about where my animals are going. This forum has kept me from at least a couple of incidences like this one with Al.

And in the name of research, I looked into the past 100 or so posts of yours. I found three that were not combative in some way.... and even those could be construed as such.

In summary, Chris, you are the troll from under the bridge. I hope I get to see it fall on top of you some day. Until then, keep pushing people's buttons like I know you will. Hell, everyone needs a hobby. I guess this is your, so haven't it.

I have nothing more to add here. Anyone can make their own decision on who the bad guy really is in this thread. I think it is Chris Kennard. I also think the OP is a powder keg of a buyer that sellers should beware of. And to be done and finished, Al Brown, in my eyes, is still one of the good guys.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Not all reputable, or high end breeders, do it for a living, so some might just have a little more time to check things out. I have a simple word document that I add names too as I go along. Some from BOI threads, some from giving me the run around, some simply because I don't like them and don't want them having any of my animals. It's simple enough when I get an inquiry to open up that doc and scan for names, and then pop in here and do the same.

I'm glad that works for you. Not everyone has the convenience to do that. It would be an awesome plus if everyone did have the time, but realistically, they don't for the most part. Either you breed and sell animals for a living, or you breed and sell animals with spare time left from another job/income, which is probably harder and even more time consuming. I could see retirees having the time. Honestly, most times I have bought animals from someone, once they got their money and I got my snake(s), they became very difficult to get ahold of and rarely called back unless I wanted to buy more animals from them. That can be frustrating for alot of people, but I understand that is business. That aside, I see your point and not all productive things as you practice work for everyone, unfortunately.

 

[Jesse Van Atta]

"I guess this is your, so haven't it."

I meant... I guess this is yours. Have at it. Stupid predictive texts....

 

[Chris Kennard]

I have no reason to lie, and was speaking for myself. I care about where my animals are going. This forum has kept me from at least a couple of incidences like this one with Al.

And in the name of research, I looked into the past 100 or so posts of yours. I found three that were not combative in some way.... and even those could be construed as such.

In summary, Chris, you are the troll from under the bridge. I hope I get to see it fall on top of you some day. Until then, keep pushing people's buttons like I know you will. Hell, everyone needs a hobby. I guess this is your, so haven't it.

I have nothing more to add here. Anyone can make their own decision on who the bad guy really is in this thread. I think it is Chris Kennard. I also think the OP is a powder keg of a buyer that sellers should beware of. And to be done and finished, Al Brown, in my eyes, is still one of the good guys.

Your own statement..."Buyers are not the only ones who do research before a transaction." was quite concise. If you were speaking for yourself, you should have used the words 'this buyer', instead of "buyers", and 'one' instead of "ones". Your frustration would still exist no matter who disagreed with you. So, in the name of your extensive research, I should what, go away? Because you think I am a troll, lol? I am sorry I ruffled your feathers or offended you. Again, I never said Al was a good guy or a bad guy. I do disagree with alot of opinions here and try to level the playing field for what I consider bullying tactics or just passive agressive condescention. I watched people come out of the gates here and do exactly what they are mad at the OP for doing. Lastly, I really feel your pain in knowing that have no real basis for starting a "bad guy thred on me". If we met in person, you would realize that to know me is to love me

 

[Chris Kennard]

"I guess this is your, so haven't it."

I meant... I guess this is yours. Have at it. Stupid predictive texts....

I caught that. Said nothing. See what a philanthropist I am. I hate the BOI grammar police!

 

[radera5]

Your own statement..."Buyers are not the only ones who do research before a transaction." was quite concise. If you were speaking for yourself, you should have used the words 'this buyer', instead of "buyers", and 'one' instead of "ones". Your frustration would still exist no matter who disagreed with you. So, in the name of your extensive research, I should what, go away? Because you think I am a troll, lol? I am sorry I ruffled your feathers or offended you. Again, I never said Al was a good guy or a bad guy. I do disagree with alot of opinions here and try to level the playing field for what I consider bullying tactics or just passive agressive condescention. I watched people come out of the gates here and do exactly what they are mad at the OP for doing. Lastly, I really feel your pain in knowing that have no real basis for starting a "bad guy thred on me". If we met in person, you would realize that to know me is to love me

 

[Chris Kennard]

Jesse...

"In summary, Chris, you are the troll from under the bridge. I hope I get to see it fall on top of you some day. Until then, keep pushing people's buttons like I know you will. Hell, everyone needs a hobby. I guess this is your, so haven't it."

Jesse, I am going to leave this thread alone. Please know one thing, and that is... through various correspondences and PMs, I know I'm not alone. Not that that would matter. I am not offended by your "troll" comment because I know you, as well as many here, think they are speaking for the majority of herpers. You aren't. You're probably a good dude, but you need to prove that here with e-mails, photos, proof of ID, birth certificate, mug shot, social security number, etc. Just kidding. Lighten up pal. Someday it might become the norm to ask for superior lineage info and we'll all forget Rich by then, unfortunately. I won't, I'll thank him for being tenacious.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

You think you're the only one who gets messages behind the lines? HA HA

You are a troll. I've never seen you post except to pick apart someone else' posts. Or try to anyway, regardless of how foolish it makes you look. I have yet to see you contribute anything worthwhile to a thread, only bickering, and combative posts.

 

[Chris Kennard]

You think you're the only one who gets messages behind the lines? HA HA

You are a troll. I've never seen you post except to pick apart someone else' posts. Or try to anyway, regardless of how foolish it makes you look. I have yet to see you contribute anything worthwhile to a thread, only bickering, and combative posts.

The same could be said of any and all of your posts. I certainly wouldn't call you a troll for having an opinion that differs from mine. I'm no stranger to being called a troll, among other names here going back a good ways. Most people who called me those names in the past, used it as a last resort after getting frustrated. I've been drawn into that same juvie BS in the past and have been attacked when I was dead on right and will not get sucked into the same juvie BS I got sucked into then! My posts are no more or less combative than yours. As a matter of fact, I bet I can find a condescending post of yours that are more abrasive than any I've made, but I won't bother going there. If you have not found any contribution in my posts, so sorry. When you are on the recieving end of the same BS I see going on here, I will defend you as well. I am sure that I will still be a bad guy not worthy of giving you kudos in the future, being a troll and all. But if I think you're right, I will voice my opinion in your favor. Lastly, find an initial post here that didn't pick apart the OP aside from the level-headed people lacking an agenda. And please, don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful.

 

[hhmoore]

That's enough of the back and forth - please keep posts relevant to the topic of the thread.

 

[Chris Kennard]

A preemptive apology to the mods. I got sucked in again, I'm done. I do think this transaction has an easy solution. I too am anal about lineage, so perhaps I am a bit biassed. This is an important topic that will hopefully evolve into a new standard of keeping records true and lineages tracable.

 

[deborahbroadus]

A preemptive apology to the mods. I got sucked in again, I'm done. I do think this transaction has an easy solution. I too am anal about lineage, so perhaps I am a bit biassed. This is an important topic that will hopefully evolve into a new standard of keeping records true and lineages tracable.

We SHOULD be improving in this reguard; it could reduce some of the scamming if better records are kept of one's animals (instead of using the copout that anything can be forged). Some breeders do so, and those with high standards are those most likely to continue to succeed.

Of course, those with high standards are fewer than those that play "follow the leader." I hated seeing the words "That's how most breeders do it."

This issue certainly taught ME something.

 

[Jesse Van Atta]

Differences of opinion, thoughts on the matter at hand, all valid points made back on page three or so. Yet for some reason there is an unwavering need to get the last word in, and keep the discussion here. Trolling. Quite a few true colors have been shown, including mine. I am not one to get involved unless I feel strongly about the matter at hand. Friends getting unjustly thrown under the bus will do it every time.

Whether this gets worked out between the OP and seller is between them.

There is a discussion of what lineage should be as well as one on where lines should be drawn. I welcome any and all opinions there.