Info Johathon at Breeders Circle saying his Citrus Pastel WO makes our Power House WO

[radera5]

Jon is a good guy. I have delt with him a few times in the past and he has been truthful and honest with the entire time. Have you ever considered that amirs pastel citrus whiteout could be a different line that acts a bit differently, like a butter and lesser for example. It is a little excessive to bash him this hard and claim he has other falsely advertised animals with little to no proof.

This is what I am waiting for

 

[FosterHerpetological]

This is what I am waiting for

I think we all are. The OP is saying these things with no clear evidence as of now.

 

[JudyC]

Is it just me...or does it sound an awfully lot like the clarksgeckos account is channeling Joe Capone?

I don't know enough about the Whitewash or the Citrus to know what's what...but I do know this kind of childish ranting attack does absolutely nothing to convince intelligent people they should listen to you.

 

[hhmoore]

Is it just me...or does it sound an awfully lot like the clarksgeckos account is channeling Joe Capone?

I don't know enough about the Whitewash or the Citrus to know what's what...but I do know this kind of childish ranting attack does absolutely nothing to convince intelligent people they should listen to you.

No, not just you...
Joe posted under Clark's account in the ad, and he sent me a couple of PMs under that same account. I would hope that he'd have the good sense use his own account; or at least to sign his name to any posts made on Clark's

 

[snakemansnakes]

Have him show you pictures of snakes like we made. Oh, he can't. Buy the fake Spectors, het pumas, and Whiteouts from John and then get behind him. Let me know how you feel when you just bought normals and they all don't prove out. That is how some people are beginning to feel about this guy. I don't like people stealing from the public and selling fake dreams. I have sold some animals short but never misrepresented an animal like these two jokers.

And how would you know if they are selling fake hets? Did you buy any and then try to prove them out yourself? I've never heard anything bad about John, that's why I will continue to deal with him. Saying something like this would require some kind of proof. Just sayin'

 

[ActionReptiles]

I have a couple of questions regarding this post. First off for the OP Where did you get the animal that started your "power house" line? Did it come from Amir(as you stated in your first post)? Also weren't you originally selling these animals as Amir's White Out line? I remember you posting them as such just didn't take screen shots for every add I look at . If this is the case it sounds like you happened to get this "white house/ power house" gene from Amir and started making crazy combo's. Now you are trying to change the name and sell them as your own line, bashing the other line in the process. Maybe it is a completely different line but I don't see any proof other wise.

I have done a good amount of business with Jonathan and he has always been completely honest and up front about all his animals. I have purchased a couple of citrus white outs from him and never did he tell me they were guaranteed to throw white outs. He did explain that the gene "shows up" and there was still work to be done to see what was going on with the gene. I don't usually post in here because sometimes things get a little out of hand but these accusations are childish and have no merit other than trying to bash someone's good name...

Also where is this proof you are claiming?? The pics you posted although nice looking animals, look like a nice pastave and pastave calico(how do know the look is not from the calico with out breeding?).

 

[ericdaley]

I have also done alot of buying and selling with Amir for 20 years or more he takes care of his customers ! Jonathan of breeders circle and I have also done are share of buying, trading and selling he also has never let me down! IMO when someone starts bashing people It is not a good sign and reflects bad on the hobbie! The pics you posted although nice looking animals, look like a nice pastave and pastave calico(how do know the look is not from the calico with out breeding?). Any who has seen the citrus whiteout stuff on Amir's table at any show that he at would know that his whiteout stuff is crazy and the powerhouse stuff in there add are just nice looking ball pythons no crazy! Just my opinion!

 

[Matt2979]

I don't know much about the whiteout genes (no personal experience), but I do know that I've never had a problem with Jonathan Foltz. We've had several deals, and everyone was flawless. Throwing false accusations at Jonathan will not deter me from doing more good business with him!

 

[Matt2979]

We've had several deals, and everyone was flawless.

everyone = every one (as in every single deal was flawless)

 

[deborahbroadus]

Ohhhh, look what happens when people don't keep acceptable (to the minority) RECORDS (Lineage) We are reduced to depending on words and pictures.

Obviously, imo, some seem not to understand the importance of GENETICS and getting what you pay for. Just because no one has complained, yet, does not mean anything. Hatchlings take years to develop to maturity to be "proved" out...then if nothing is produced, it can be chalked to "bad luck."

I would be interested in more evidence of how the White Out gene reproduces itself in different morphs (wish someone had started on a NORMAL.)

Boy (to the OP) the things one does to screw up themselves!! Harald pointed out a reason that would affect how your post is taken...sigh.

 

[radera5]

Ohhhh, look what happens when people don't keep acceptable (to the minority) RECORDS (Lineage) We are reduced to depending on words and pictures.

Obviously, imo, some seem not to understand the importance of GENETICS and getting what you pay for. Just because no one has complained, yet, does not mean anything. Hatchlings take years to develop to maturity to be "proved" out...then if nothing is produced, it can be chalked to "bad luck."

I would be interested in more evidence of how the White Out gene reproduces itself in different morphs (wish someone had started on a NORMAL.)

Boy (to the OP) the things one does to screw up themselves!! Harald pointed out a reason that would affect how your post is taken...sigh.

I was waiting for you to see this
We happen to be thinking along the exact same lines here. It is funny how things tie together sometimes.
I am not going to say anything about the situation itself until I know more. I know many people seem to be bashing the man for posting this, BUT as I said in an earlier post...if what he is saying IS true, then I see a big problem.

Tracking lineage would have been SO appropriate for this.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I was waiting for you to see this
We happen to be thinking along the exact same lines here. It is funny how things tie together sometimes.
I am not going to say anything about the situation itself until I know more. I know many people seem to be bashing the man for posting this, BUT as I said in an earlier post...if what he is saying IS true, then I see a big problem.

Tracking lineage would have been SO appropriate for this.

Nice to see that you also saw the consequences/tie in of certain actions.

That's for sure, but on my part, I would be trying NOT to purchase from anyone that couldn't produce evidence that couldn't be refuted as to the genetics and possible outcomes of pairings (a receipt, description of the first animal, signed from the seller...then pairing pictures...etc.. from the buyer) would be a start in establishing ownership of a morph and outcomes.

 

[sculpepper]

Jonathan @Breeder's circle

I just wanted to say that we have also done business with Jonathan and are completely happy with his animals and his customer service. We will continue to do business with him in the future

Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but seeing posts like this where someone is being attacked with no proof makes you stop and wonder what the true motive is. Defamation of character is not something to be taken lightly. It makes you wonder who will be attacked next without proof.



Sarah Culpepper

 

[Diego Velarde]

I have a couple of questions regarding this post. First off for the OP Where did you get the animal that started your "power house" line? Did it come from Amir(as you stated in your first post)? Also weren't you originally selling these animals as Amir's White Out line? I remember you posting them as such just didn't take screen shots for every add I look at . If this is the case it sounds like you happened to get this "white house/ power house" gene from Amir and started making crazy combo's. Now you are trying to change the name and sell them as your own line, bashing the other line in the process. Maybe it is a completely different line but I don't see any proof other wise.

...

Also where is this proof you are claiming?? The pics you posted although nice looking animals, look like a nice pastave and pastave calico(how do know the look is not from the calico with out breeding?).

Great post Patrick, my thoughts exactly

To the OP: Nothing against you. I havent done any business with you nor am I planning to but If you're going to accuse some one of some thing you have to be able to back it up with proof.

 

[Ace of Snakes]

I for one am one happy customer of Amir's. I have spent thousands with Amir and will do more in the future. He is the best in my opinion and I envy that man. He sees things that people just don't and you will never see it. I can't explain it you all. If there was one person I had to pick to name a morph, he is the one I would go to before ANYONE else and I mean ANYONE. He is honest and he takes cares of his customers like he has done with me. The funny thing is I was just taking pictures today of my animals and guess what, they are citrus combos. They are amazing and I am lucky and I mean LUCKY to be working with them and producing them.

Pictures taking yesterday. I hope you do not get offended AMir, these are the best of the best in my opinion and I am not trying to take over your thread.
CItrus pewters at 2 1/2 years old. He is a non white out and he threw white outs Mr. Gecko.

Father of this clutch

and this clutch
Males

Females

Father to this whiteout (oh snap, looks like Jonathan and Amir are right in that a non whiteout can throw whiteouts)

and to this white out (another one lmao)

Citrus pastel calico WHITEOUT breeding as of yesterday bought from Amir.

Citrus whiteout silver streak Mr Gecko. Your a joke! Get your facts lined up buddy cause there are more people out there with better animals then you my friend.

Your a pure idiot dude and all you want to do is smear his name and Jonathan's. I back those two guys up 100% BUT YOU ARE JUST A DOUCHE BAG. Do us a favor and get out now cause you just ruined your name Mr. Gecko breeder. What a joke. Next time you bark up a tree, make sure you know what is up. I have been to Amir's house and I can not explain the CRAZY citrus whiteout combos this man has. Look at mine, now imagine that 20X over with better stuff. I am sure the pictures from Amir and Jonathan will come. You have to remember that these guys are BIG breeders and not tiny like you or me. They are busy and they can't drop everything to please you. Happy customers and being true speak for themselves. You are nothing and whatever your anger towards these two awesome breeders is nuts. In fact, you are nuts. Have a great day and or week or month trying to convince otherwise.

 

[Imperial Reptiles]

I for one am one happy customer of Amir's. I have spent thousands with Amir and will do more in the future. He is the best in my opinion and I envy that man. He sees things that people just don't and you will never see it. I can't explain it you all. If there was one person I had to pick to name a morph, he is the one I would go to before ANYONE else and I mean ANYONE. He is honest and he takes cares of his customers like he has done with me. The funny thing is I was just taking pictures today of my animals and guess what, they are citrus combos. They are amazing and I am lucky and I mean LUCKY to be working with them and producing them.

Pictures taking yesterday. I hope you do not get offended AMir, these are the best of the best in my opinion and I am not trying to take over your thread.
CItrus pewters at 2 1/2 years old. He is a non white out and he threw white outs Mr. Gecko.

Father of this clutch

and this clutch
Males

Females

Father to this whiteout (oh snap, looks like Jonathan and Amir are right in that a non whiteout can throw whiteouts)

and to this white out (another one lmao)

Citrus pastel calico WHITEOUT breeding as of yesterday bought from Amir.

Citrus whiteout silver streak Mr Gecko. Your a joke! Get your facts lined up buddy cause there are more people out there with better animals then you my friend.

Your a pure idiot dude and all you want to do is smear his name and Jonathan's. I back those two guys up 100% BUT YOU ARE JUST A DOUCHE BAG. Do us a favor and get out now cause you just ruined your name Mr. Gecko breeder. What a joke. Next time you bark up a tree, make sure you know what is up. I have been to Amir's house and I can not explain the CRAZY citrus whiteout combos this man has. Look at mine, now imagine that 20X over with better stuff. I am sure the pictures from Amir and Jonathan will come. You have to remember that these guys are BIG breeders and not tiny like you or me. They are busy and they can't drop everything to please you. Happy customers and being true speak for themselves. You are nothing and whatever your anger towards these two awesome breeders is nuts. In fact, you are nuts. Have a great day and or week or month trying to convince otherwise.

BOOM!

 

[Shadera]

Next post is a doozy!!!

Still waiting.

So far all I see is a couple guys waving their crotches at a couple other guys, with nothing substantial to prove anything.

I'm interested in the whiteout project myself, and so far have not purchased anything just because no one seems to have all the cards in line.

 

[BreedersCircle]

Clark and Capone (who ever is on clarks account at the moment),



Still to this moment you are not understanding the concept that you cannot high-jack Amirs name and take it for yourself.

If you think yours is different from this line then make up your own name. Remember that Amir has a say on what his whiteouts are, how they are made and what they look like, not you. This pissing contest is not helping you out.



I have attached pictures from different sources of NON calico citruses that produced whiteout looking snakes.

- This citrus whiteout pewter came from "Ace of Snakes", he got his line from Amir. Picture is on worldofballpythons . Also seen in the post above.

- Look at the white on this citrus whiteout pewter, half of its underside is white.

- Here goes the Citrus whiteout silver streak, literally almost all white snake. (NON CALICO)

-Citrus whiteout lesser, look at the flames (this is why some people compare the whiteout to the fader, no one went to nerd and tried to high-jack their name....)

As they have mentioned, calicos can vary but I have also attached the following: (will be on my next post due to space)

- Calico X citrus cross: Citrus whiteout calico

Then the second picture is of a lesser whiteout, from a regular citrus clutch. Does this look like a regular lesser to you? It even has a cross on its head, i've seen a couple sibs with it. lets compare your whiteout mojave and this lesser whiteout....

Third picture is of my clutch of superstripes hatched HERE at Breeders Circle, so i am selling fake spectors you say?



There are many others out there with non citrus sibs that are tweaked out from citrus breedings.

And so, I see lying from one of the most unreliable sources in the industry continues:

I changed my ads on kingsnake or my site? I have not.
At Daytona I continued to sell bumblebees that I got from Marc at 1800.00? That is a joke, again where is your proof. I sold about 4 BUMBLEBEES at Daytona. Not one supposed bumblebelly.

And you did not threaten me? Again, you expect people to believe you on this? Anyone that wants the call log can email me for a screen shot, I have no reason to lie.

I know that every time I write, you will continue to make up more and more lies. So, i will make this easy and this is no joke, I will be forced to take legal action for defemation of character. I dont want it to have to get to this but if we cannot handle this in a civilized manner, "Powerhouse Reptiles" will be receiving a letter from my lawyer. I WILL REPEAT, I do not want to go this route but will be forced to with all these lies, threats and accusations.

Why do you think there are so many names with similar morphs??? Due to this exact reason. They do not go and high-jack the name from one of the pioneers of the industry, how many first ever single morphs have you guys made? How many has Amir made?

There are plenty of others with whiteout looking stuff that has whiteout resemblance from citruses. From the description coming from the people in the citrus whiteout project, NOT "Powerhouse Reptiles"

Once i get permission from other parties, I will gladly post pictures or links later this week.

 

[BreedersCircle]

And the other pics.
Regular looking pastel calico?
Regular looking lesser?
Me selling fake spectors? I made these with a fake spector?

 

[garweft]

Ok, so what's so special about these so-called "whiteouts"? In other words, what makes a white out a white out?