is usark over stepping its rights by proposing rules for states without asking us

[rodneynboalich]

Why are you not understanding that the alternative at the point when these recommendations might be enacted, is having NO hatchlings due to a ban?

you think that some laws are the only option and thats not the case look into how many laws terry wilkins has stopped in ohio.

 

[FosterHerpetological]

Why are you not understanding that the alternative at the point when these recommendations might be enacted, is having NO hatchlings due to a ban?

Exactly, I don't get this thread really.

Choose a number:
1. Have numerous reptiles, but have to get each individual one micro-chipped.

2. Not be allowed to have any reptiles at all.

Im going number 1 all day.

 

[rodneynboalich]

Why are you not understanding that the alternative at the point when these recommendations might be enacted, is having NO hatchlings due to a ban?

it seems as though the propaganda is coming at us from both sides now. if we dont give in if we dont allow some laws if we dont give some money if we dont do this and dont do that we will loose everything. thats not necessarily the case.

 

[DiamondCreek]

how many animals are you looking to produce this season

*HEAD DESK* That shouldn't matter. Would you please come down off your high-horse and listen to what people are saying. If there is a ban, you will have no hatchlings to worry about and your investment to date will be null and void. I really don't know how else to put it.

Would you rather continuing having your animals and conducting your breeding operations and selling offspring, even with some added overhead, or are you willing to broach no compromise, see a ban enacted and have nothing to breed and no reason to breed them if you did?

 

[rodneynboalich]

Exactly, I don't get this thread really.

Choose a number:
1. Have numerous reptiles, but have to get each individual one micro-chipped.

2. Not be allowed to have any reptiles at all.

Im going number 1 all day.

if its such a good idea why dont you go out and get it done now and be ahead of the curve and let me know how it works out for you

 

[rodneynboalich]

this whole thing has been off track from the beginning. i asked if usark over stepped its rights by writing up proposed legislation to offer up to states without consulting the hobbyist in those states they would have it enacted

 

[FosterHerpetological]

if its such a good idea why dont you go out and get it done now and be ahead of the curve and let me know how it works out for you

Did I say it was a good idea? Im going to take the lesser of two evils any day.

 

[DiamondCreek]

you think that some laws are the only option and thats not the case look into how many laws terry wilkins has stopped in ohio.

And if efforts to stop legislation are successful, the compromise legislation is not pushed.

Really. I don't understand why you can't see that proposed model legislation from USARK is used as a last ditch effort to prevent outright bans and for no other purpose.

You are fussing about the "4th and goal, time running out and down by a touchdown" play at, essentially, half-time.

 

[rodneynboalich]

*HEAD DESK* That shouldn't matter. Would you please come down off your high-horse and listen to what people are saying. If there is a ban, you will have no hatchlings to worry about and your investment to date will be null and void. I really don't know how else to put it.

Would you rather continuing having your animals and conducting your breeding operations and selling offspring, even with some added overhead, or are you willing to broach no compromise, see a ban enacted and have nothing to breed and no reason to breed them if you did?

why do you not understand that there are more options than some laws or a ban. and clearly your not planning on producing much. nobody on here is or most likely you would be mad about his issue.

 

[DiamondCreek]

this whole thing has been off track from the beginning. i asked if usark over stepped its rights by writing up proposed legislation to offer up to states without consulting the hobbyist in those states they would have it enacted

No, they did not overstep their rights. Proposing codifying best practices in lieu of a ban is simply a part of protecting your rights. As far as chipping goes, everything I have read says it is safe and it makes folks more comfortable and more apt to go along with a more reasonable approach. It is a small price to pay.

From this thread and that on Facebook, I have very little hope that you will see that, but I have answered your question.

 

[DiamondCreek]

why do you not understand that there are more options than some laws or a ban. and clearly your not planning on producing much. nobody on here is or most likely you would be mad about his issue.

Clearly, you have no desire to view any opinion as valid but your own. You have yet to grasp the simple fact that if chipping is what it takes to prevent an outright ban, it is a small price to pay compared to not being able to breed snakes at all.

 

[rodneynboalich]

*HEAD DESK* That shouldn't matter. Would you please come down off your high-horse and listen to what people are saying. If there is a ban, you will have no hatchlings to worry about and your investment to date will be null and void. I really don't know how else to put it.

Would you rather continuing having your animals and conducting your breeding operations and selling offspring, even with some added overhead, or are you willing to broach no compromise, see a ban enacted and have nothing to breed and no reason to breed them if you did?

i hate to tell you this but as soon as they make it a law to micro chip snakes it will start with venomous and big snakes and you retics will be worth nothing. they will be null and void because the whole industry will shy away from them because of the legality surrounding them

 

[AbsoluteApril]

i asked if usark over stepped its rights by writing up proposed legislation to offer up to states without consulting the hobbyist in those states they would have it enacted

just wondering... how do you know they did NOT consult with other hobbyist?

and I'm sure my point was already made in my original post in this thread, but I am also NOT in favor of rules, but I would take them over an outright ban if it came to it. And yes.. I breed my snakes (from time to time)

 

[snowgyre]

Off topic, but the chipmenot thing has irked me.

Microchipping has virtually ZERO health or environmental risks. A microchip is more accurately referred to as a PIT tag, or Passive Integrated Transponder. They are sealed within heavy transparent material which passes whole through digestive systems and they have negligible (if any) toxicity even if broken. These things don't even have a power source! It's quite literally a piece of copper that, when an electrical signal passes over it, it emits a harmless signal.

We use PIT tags extensively in wildlife biology. They are NOT harmful. If they were, they would never pass extremely rigorous Animal Care and Use Committees at universities.

Any health risk is not associated with the PIT tag itself, but with the health of the individual. If you've got a bleeding disorder or some sort of compromised immune system, I certainly hope you don't intentionally inject yourself with a thick needle. Seems like common sense should prevail here.

And not PIT tagging your cat or dog because you're worried about acupuncture points? Really? I mean, c'mon, you can't be serious.

Citing that website as a source of information is a joke. Here's some valid, peer-reviewed, scientifically tested information that shows PIT tags are harmless:

IMPACTS OF TATTOOING AND PIT-TAGGING ON SURVIVAL AND FECUNDITY IN THE ALPINE NEWT (TRITURUS ALPESTRIS)
No effects on amphibians... even though they have fragile and permeable skins!

The effect of PIT tags on growth and physiology of age-0 cultured Eurasian perch Perca fluviatilis of variable size
These guys used PIT tags on fish that weighed no more than 2 paperclips with virtually zero ill effects! You can't tell me this hurts your comparatively gargantuan cats or dogs.

Again, apologies, but this kind of misinformation rankles me deeply.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

1. You said USARK was pushing legislation in YOUR state of PA.
This was proven false.
2. You said USARK does not disclose the finainces.
This was proven false.
3. You said that microchipping reptiles kills them.
This IS false, as several of my very alive reptiles prove.
4. You repeatedly demanded people give you the exact documents regarding the info you wanted.
Even after being told WHERE to find them, you continued to demand links, instead of looking it up like every other member of the public does.


Any group, any individual is within their rights to propose anything to the states. If you don't like what USARK is proposing, then don't be a member. Start your own group and propose that no laws be enacted at all to the governments of your state. People who believe that saying they should have no legislation at all over owning reptiles is right can help you run your campaigns. This is within your rights as a individual or if you chose to do it properly, within your rights as a group.

Personally, since you repeatedly accused Wyatt of pushing legislation in PA after he stated they had NOT, repeatedly implied that there was no financial infomation on the webpage because you couldn't find it, and repeatedly said that USARK had no right to do exactly what they were started TO DO(help give states a reasonable compromise to an outright ban) I'm very surprised at how very polite and understanding people were on the USARK FB wall. I wouldn't have been so patient.

So, when you get your group up off the ground, and have your guidelines of how you'll be proposing to various states(or just your state) that they enact no legislation at all, and also as a sideline, use some funding to investigate the handful of claimed snake deaths... you'll post here and let everyone know what's up, right? Make certain that at each point you come onto every major reptile website and email each individual reptile keeper to keep everyone up to date on exactly what you'll be proposing or doing, and keep a running tally of your expenses and how much donated funds there are.

I look forward to seeing you and your new group up and running soon!

 

[rodneynboalich]

we all know how big of a joke hsus is and how they just rip people off and have made a business out pretending to care about animals. usark isnt there yet but how long will it take before they get there. look at hsus. they will protest against representative and then work with them and give them money for spacial interest meanwhile they keep taking donations saying there fighting for animals rights when they dont spend any money on animals.

now whats usark doing. they are hiring lobbyist working with representatives and coming up with laws to propose for states meanwhile they ask us for money so they can fight for us to keep our animals.

i want them to fight for ours rights to keep our animals not fight to add stipulations on keeping these animals

 

[Wolfy-hound]

Look at all the people who get reptiles, then get tird of them and let them starve to death or turn them loose in the woods! How long is it until you do that with your animals??

Just becuase HSUS is a load of bullpuckey on a stick doesn't automatically mean that every group that's trying to 'help animals' will turn into a bunch of vegan fruitcake extremists. No more than it's likely that you'll stop loving reptiles and start abusing them. Don't damn someone just on the actions of a entirely different person.

 

[rodneynboalich]

Off topic, but the chipmenot thing has irked me.

Microchipping has virtually ZERO health or environmental risks. A microchip is more accurately referred to as a PIT tag, or Passive Integrated Transponder. They are sealed within heavy transparent material which passes whole through digestive systems and they have negligible (if any) toxicity even if broken. These things don't even have a power source! It's quite literally a piece of copper that, when an electrical signal passes over it, it emits a harmless signal.

We use PIT tags extensively in wildlife biology. They are NOT harmful. If they were, they would never pass extremely rigorous Animal Care and Use Committees at universities.

Any health risk is not associated with the PIT tag itself, but with the health of the individual. If you've got a bleeding disorder or some sort of compromised immune system, I certainly hope you don't intentionally inject yourself with a thick needle. Seems like common sense should prevail here.

And not PIT tagging your cat or dog because you're worried about acupuncture points? Really? I mean, c'mon, you can't be serious.

Citing that website as a source of information is a joke. Here's some valid, peer-reviewed, scientifically tested information that shows PIT tags are harmless:

IMPACTS OF TATTOOING AND PIT-TAGGING ON SURVIVAL AND FECUNDITY IN THE ALPINE NEWT (TRITURUS ALPESTRIS)
No effects on amphibians... even though they have fragile and permeable skins!

The effect of PIT tags on growth and physiology of age-0 cultured Eurasian perch Perca fluviatilis of variable size
These guys used PIT tags on fish that weighed no more than 2 paperclips with virtually zero ill effects! You can't tell me this hurts your comparatively gargantuan cats or dogs.

Again, apologies, but this kind of misinformation rankles me deeply.

there has been many studies done that show they can be harmful. i think the matter needs looked into further i dont think my couple post and you one post is enough evidince to someone to come to a good conclusion. i will try to find more studies

 

[rodneynboalich]

1. You said USARK was pushing legislation in YOUR state of PA.
This was proven false.
2. You said USARK does not disclose the finainces.
This was proven false.
3. You said that microchipping reptiles kills them.
This IS false, as several of my very alive reptiles prove.
4. You repeatedly demanded people give you the exact documents regarding the info you wanted.
Even after being told WHERE to find them, you continued to demand links, instead of looking it up like every other member of the public does.


Any group, any individual is within their rights to propose anything to the states. If you don't like what USARK is proposing, then don't be a member. Start your own group and propose that no laws be enacted at all to the governments of your state. People who believe that saying they should have no legislation at all over owning reptiles is right can help you run your campaigns. This is within your rights as a individual or if you chose to do it properly, within your rights as a group.

Personally, since you repeatedly accused Wyatt of pushing legislation in PA after he stated they had NOT, repeatedly implied that there was no financial infomation on the webpage because you couldn't find it, and repeatedly said that USARK had no right to do exactly what they were started TO DO(help give states a reasonable compromise to an outright ban) I'm very surprised at how very polite and understanding people were on the USARK FB wall. I wouldn't have been so patient.

So, when you get your group up off the ground, and have your guidelines of how you'll be proposing to various states(or just your state) that they enact no legislation at all, and also as a sideline, use some funding to investigate the handful of claimed snake deaths... you'll post here and let everyone know what's up, right? Make certain that at each point you come onto every major reptile website and email each individual reptile keeper to keep everyone up to date on exactly what you'll be proposing or doing, and keep a running tally of your expenses and how much donated funds there are.

I look forward to seeing you and your new group up and running soon!

1 i said i was told usark had contacted my state and was not proven false andrew just said he didnt
2 i said i didnt know if they disclosed it
3 i didnt say it kills all reptiles
4 im asking for the legislation andrew wyatt wrote and would propose to my state and i still havnt got that info

 

[rodneynboalich]

just wondering... how do you know they did NOT consult with other hobbyist?

and I'm sure my point was already made in my original post in this thread, but I am also NOT in favor of rules, but I would take them over an outright ban if it came to it. And yes.. I breed my snakes (from time to time)

i asked if anybody was contacted no real answer yet.