Info Erik Strait, aka Eriks Reptiles, Parasites and Misrepresentation

[EriksReptiles]

Ed, I do not send them myself. I have an exporter with permits to do so or my clients have hired their own companies here in the states to export them.

They are well known Zoos. It is not my place to talk on their behalf. If you would like I would be more than happy to email the curators and ask them to post here in regards to the animals they have received from me.

Thanks Erik

 

[Reptilebob]

How did I not hold myself to acceptable standards? You said this “but he didn't hold himself to acceptable standards either.” I am not trying to argue, just curious.

Thanks Erik

Lets set aside all the other issues on this for a moment and just focus on the issue of the two geckos.

I think there is going to be a fundamental difference in opinion between two sides. I own a reptile store, so I can see it both ways. On one hand a refund was given for the animal that died. On the other, both animals were not as described (parasite free) and the customer had reasonable ground to not be satasifed with the purchase of both animals, thus a full refund should have been issued.

When I said you didn't meet acceptable standards, I meant that I feel that giving a full refund would have been the proper and expected response.

When an animal dies during a transaction, it sucks for both parties. However, I feel that the benefit of the doubt always should go to the customer. For example, just a month ago, a customer bought from my store a GTP juvie that I had for over 6 months. It died 2 days after they purchased it. I'm 95% certain that it was of no fault of my own, but I replaced the animal for them, after extensively going over with them (again) the proper care and husbandry so we didn't have a repeat performance. I would probably have been in the right if I told them they killed the animal and I couldn't help them, however doing so would not have been holding myself to an acceptable standard, I would have had an angry customer, and would have deserved their comments on forums or review sites. Even though I lost money on the deal, it was the right thing to do.

However, in this case, unlike my GTP, the source of the problem almost certainly came from the seller. This makes it clear that a full refund should have been offered.

As to the other issues, I would like to apologize to you Erik, for publicly doubting your credentials. While I do have serious doubts, I had no right to air them publicly with no proof. Especially when reputation is so important in this hobby, it was irresponsible of me. People can make their own conclusion as to the validity of your claims.

However, one point of note: The minute you advertise your animals for sale in Reptiles magazine, you're no longer a "hobbyist"

 

[EriksReptiles]

Hello,

Being the case of it being within the 3 days listed on my terms I might have done as such. However I don't refund shipping as per my terms. I don’t make money off shipping and actually end up paying some shipping charges myself in most cases. I offered a very fair refund for the animals being out of my care for almost 3 weeks and she obviously agreed to it since she accepted it. She also kept the male guentheri per our agreement. So since he is doing good, I haven’t heard otherwise, she actually made out ahead from everything.

I appreciate the apology; I do know what you mean and where you’re coming from too. I have spent a very long time learning about this species, as well as others, and finding how to reproduce them with the highest rate of success. I have worked very hard to get to where I am at today.

I actually didn’t "advertise"... They approached me and asked if I would write an article. I didn't know that they were going to put my website on the article. Although no-where does it say to contact me for available animals. You have to pay them to do that..

I do still have to file taxes on the income from the reptiles. However most years it is a wash due to expenses. So maybe an "extreme hobbyist" is a better title? My main point from all that was just show that I do not rely or require the money from reptiles to support myself. Thats all.

Thanks Erik

 

[Reptilebob]

Hello,

Steven – When I sold them they were not “defective.” To the best of my knowledge the male is doing just fine. I was never made aware of any issues with him. Watching worms crawl out of an animal is nasty. We can agree to that. However what kind of parasite lives in the body cavity of the animal looks like that, crawls out the ears, ect… I have done hours of research and talked to vets and friends and no one has any clue as to what it could have been. Since she threw them out, we will likely never know.

Thanks Erik

I got this fromhttp://www.angelfire.com/al/repticare2/page10.html I'm sure there's more info out there, but it was just a quick search:

"Members of the nematode family such as Pentastomiasis and Rhabditida are commonly found in the lung tissue of the host and present symptoms that often resemble those of a common respiratory infection. Symptoms of a Pentastomiasis or Rhabditida infestation are an oral and nasal discharge, open mouth breathing, lethargy and an increased respiratory rate. As a result many owners and breeders will treat their reptiles based solely on symptoms an if the treatment is unsuccessful than the owner assumes that it was a result of a respiratory illness, never knowing that it may have been a parasite infestation that was the true underlying cause of death. Through proper diagnostic testing the death of the reptile may have been prevented and a proper course of treatment may have been used to save the animal. "

Doing further searches on Pentastomiasis and Rhabditida, I'd say one of these is probably a contender. To your benefit Erik, these are difficult parasites to detect and the animals could have had them before they were in your care. Stress from shipping could have exasperated a tolerable (and asymptomatic) parasite load into a fatal infestation.

So, it's very possible that there was little you could do to detect the problem before shipping. However, it is now almost certain that they had these parasites before they were shipped.

Its an F'ed up situation for both you and bonnie, but its part of the responsibilities of you, the seller to take the loss, even if there was nothing you did wrong. This is even more so when animals are purchased online, as the buyer has no way to inspect the animal fully before purchase.

 

[Chris Kennard]

-"I have helped several Zoos set up their Uroplatus breeding groups and actually had an internship at a zoo for almost 2.5 years. I guess I am just a pro at time management".- Wow! Doing that on top of studying for school, working your "real job", camping? And you still find the time and stamina to care for nearly a thousand or more animals! Feeding, cleaning, sexing, breeding, quarantining, parasite checking, exporting, etc. You are the superhero of "time management"! The more you ad to your incredibly busy schedule here, the more unbelievable it seems to become. Just an observation.

 

[SteveinIL]

Yes she ended up with a useless male. generally when someone buys a pair they do so for breeding purposes which becomes quite difficult with only a male. Apparantly these lizards are not very common so it will be very hard to find just a female. So she has a useless pet she had to invest more of her money into rescuing at this point.

 

[SteveinIL]

I can understand not refunding shipping when there is buyers remorse but it was clearly a defective animal therefore solely your responsibility.

 

[EriksReptiles]

Chris - That internship started back in 2006. It’s not like I just ended in yesterday. I had to stop it when I moved to Washington for my real career. I was at the zoo 1-3 days a week depending on my schedule. Back then I didn't have a massive collection like I do now.

Steven - I offered a replacement female. I have plenty. She declined. They are rare, but there is a fairly good sized group of us in the USA that produce them.

Thanks Erik

 

[Reptilebob]

I think, overall, this should be a lesson to all breeders, retailers and hobbyists to practice better parasite quarantine procedures, especially with sensitive and rare animals. Erik, I don't want to preach, but I'd suggest photographing each animal in its own tank or in an easily sanitizible container, using bleach or chlorhexidine in between animals.

People also need to be honest and conservative in their credentials, as our hobby has way to much BS in it already.

This whole thing could have been prevented and hopefully will be in the future.

 

[EriksReptiles]

Robert - I use the food grade PVC sheets for photographing. They work great, easy to clean, and I use virosan (chlorhexidine) in between animals.

Thanks Erik

 

[SteveinIL]

If you received 2 sick animals, one that had worms crawling out of it's mouth from a breeder, would you want to risk dealing with a 3rd one especially when uncertain if the 1 remaining one would even survive? I certainly would not want anything except for a full refund so I can take my business elsewhere. I would not want to risk my collection like that and I doubt anyone else would. The responsible thing would have been to understand where she is coming from and do your most to make her whole again up to and including refunding the whole amount with shipping.

 

[ozz465]

-"I have helped several Zoos set up their Uroplatus breeding groups and actually had an internship at a zoo for almost 2.5 years. I guess I am just a pro at time management".- Wow! Doing that on top of studying for school, working your "real job", camping? And you still find the time and stamina to care for nearly a thousand or more animals! Feeding, cleaning, sexing, breeding, quarantining, parasite checking, exporting, etc. You are the superhero of "time management"! The more you ad to your incredibly busy schedule here, the more unbelievable it seems to become. Just an observation.

I don't mean to derail this thread , but seriously most of this person BOI post are condescending remarks lacking any Substance, The Boi suffers from such Trolls.

 

[KelliH]

If you received 2 sick animals, one that had worms crawling out of it's mouth from a breeder, would you want to risk dealing with a 3rd one especially when uncertain if the 1 remaining one would even survive? I certainly would not want anything except for a full refund so I can take my business elsewhere. I would not want to risk my collection like that and I doubt anyone else would. The responsible thing would have been to understand where she is coming from and do your most to make her whole again up to and including refunding the whole amount with shipping.

What was wrong with the male, I missed it? Did it test positive for parasites?

 

[ozz465]

If partner to the male has some sort of parasitical load , would not the educated guess be that the same would be to the male? while i understand your protective argument towards the Seller , maybe it would be best to bow out of this thread? plz don't take my post as an attack as i respect you dearly and don't take sides based on passed experiences only on the thread.

 

[Lorraine]

I never was able to have the male tested for parasites, if you look in the emails, I told Erik the feces were too runny to collect for testing. I only ever found urates and maybe a tiny smear of fecal matter rubbed in. After the female passed, I decided the safest course was to dose him for worms and anything else he might have come in contact with. I hate shotgun dosing, but in this instance, I felt it was safer than leaving him untreated. The problem with treating worms in the chest cavity according to my vet, is that since they can't be excreted through the digestive tract once you've killed them off, they all rot inside the animal and release toxins. So far he seems to be hanging in there, but then he was never as lethargic as the female was.

 

[Chris Kennard]

I don't mean to derail this thread , but seriously most of this person BOI post are condescending remarks lacking any Substance, The Boi suffers from such Trolls.

Here we go with the "troll" bomb again. No substance? I disagree. I am trying to make a point that I think is being overlooked. This guy has been ducking and dodging my points, conveniently answering bits and pieces of my comments that are safe for him to address. Quite an impressive and busy resume, even in highschool (zoo internships etc.). All 22 year olds could learn a lesson in ambition from this young man. Mortgage, school tuition, transportation, real job/career, studies, camping...and a hobby (a thousand animals and counting?) that would never afford most people the time to do anything else. Amazing.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Ed, I do not send them myself. I have an exporter with permits to do so or my clients have hired their own companies here in the states to export them.

They are well known Zoos. It is not my place to talk on their behalf. If you would like I would be more than happy to email the curators and ask them to post here in regards to the animals they have received from me.

Thanks Erik

Noone asked you to talk on their behalf. Name the zoos. What harm could that do?

 

[Spyral]

From the way I see it, this was a rare, sad situation and the seller did make it right, especially since this was 3 weeks after purchase and as some have mentioned, a delicate species. The stance that some might consider the male as "useless" without the female seems a little harsh. The male seems to be healthy after undergoing treatment.

The other geckos had parasites - but I'm not sure how common that is with the genus and whether it's considered acceptable to receive geckos in that condition. A good heads up about that.

Bonnie, I appreciate the videos and know that it must have been a very harrowing experience. However, why did you decide to not keep the worms to verify what type they were? Your vet mentioned worms in the chest cavity, did he state what type of worms he thought they were? Unfortunately the videos weren't clear enough for me to distinguish them between maggots or nematodes.

Do you have the email where you claim Erik says "they don't move much"? That part of the story seems to be missing, all the emails are after the fact. I don't see the ones where you also claim he became "hostile". I see the jump from the "They are doing better" to "she's dead here are the videos"... were there more emails that were skipped? You mentioned he put off answering most of your emails, can you post those that were unanswered?

It does seem to me that you jumped to conclusions on Erik's level of experience, his stock, and you perhaps misinterpreted some of his comments. All of his responses seem professional and more than reasonable. The fact that you were a returning customer, and he gave you a refund on the dead female 3 weeks after his usual Terms of Service seems like he's a good guy. I have never done business with him before, but if I am in the market for these geckos I'll keep him in mind.

 

[BlooHiss]

One thing people should take away from this:

NEVER throw out an animal and the parasites you found with an at home necropsy.

Now all we have is speculation what they were instead of concrete proof from a lab or professional to tell us what they were and how to treat for them. I think it's highly irresponsible to not follow through with diagnosing what they were. How is the seller supposed to check his collection if they are hard to find and don't know what they are?

Next time wrap the animal in a moist paper towel, put it in the fridge, and call a vet ASAP. If they don't treat reptiles a lot of times they can send it to someone who does or give you the tools to properly preserve the animal.

 

[Chris Kennard]

One thing people should take away from this:

NEVER throw out an animal and the parasites you found with an at home necropsy.

Now all we have is speculation what they were instead of concrete proof from a lab or professional to tell us what they were and how to treat for them. I think it's highly irresponsible to not follow through with diagnosing what they were. How is the seller supposed to check his collection if they are hard to find and don't know what they are?

Next time wrap the animal in a moist paper towel, put it in the fridge, and call a vet ASAP. If they don't treat reptiles a lot of times they can send it to someone who does or give you the tools to properly preserve the animal.

I agree with you in part Julia with regard to trying to collect any of the parasites for diagnosis. I certainly wouldn't put them in my fridge though! Maybe some people are wormaphobes and would sooner incinerate them than let them live for two seconds in their house. The seller shouldn't have to "check his collection" if animals are properly quarantined. If the statement made by the OP..."Erik had informed me he doesn't do fecals on his animals, and leaves it to his importer to medicate"..., he should have nothing to worry about, right? Wrong! Perhaps there is another lesson to be learned here.