lesser education

[R. Eventide]

So all Lessers are from the original Platty Daddy. That I get. And all variations such as the SG Line are the outcome from specific breeding with-in the line that accentuate color or brightness. OK.

Are all Butters from the original platty daddy? If so wouldn't a Butter be nothing more than a more extreme variation of say a SG line Lesser?

And no one has a line that produces pure brown/yellow or black(er)/yellow lesser as it is a random event.

Did I get this right?

That's how I understand it, but I could be wrong....

Butters, however, I do not think are from the Platty Daddy...otherwise, they'd just be called Lessers.

Personally I would think all the butters and lessers are compatible with the platinum gene. I've never heard of an incompatible pairing between the two but who knows. Butters and Lessers are like Cinni's and Black Pastels

We can't know for sure unless someone breeds a Butter with a het Platty gene snake. From what I understand about Lessers and Butters, I doubt Butters are compatible. There's a chance, though, that the Platty gene is compatible with any gene on the BEL allele, in which case, any BEL-producing snake would be "compatible" with Platinums, though that would not make all BEL-complex morphs the same.

There is lessers on KS now from a wild caught line, I didn't figure there was only one found in the wild.

Really? Argh! Unless they've successfully created Platinums from this line of Lessers, they shouldn't be called Lessers. If they turn out not to be compatible, then we're going to have Platinum-producing and non-Platinum-producing Lessers, and no one will know the difference without breeding them first! >.<

 

[KLHReptiles]

Sorry to interrupt the discussions but I wanted to show off my spotless lesserbee too Hes around 600g now, so I have to get updated pics but he's one of the prettiest snakes in my collection

 

[snakesRkewl]

Butters, however, I do not think are from the Platty Daddy...otherwise, they'd just be called Lessers.

Butters were proven by someone else the same year as lessers, so they could not have come from the platty daddy.

We can't know for sure unless someone breeds a Butter with a het Platty gene snake. From what I understand about Lessers and Butters, I doubt Butters are compatible. There's a chance, though, that the Platty gene is compatible with any gene on the BEL allele, in which case, any BEL-producing snake would be "compatible" with Platinums, though that would not make all BEL-complex morphs the same.

Ralph Davis has proven they are compatible by making a butter daddy, check out his youtube video on it

Really? Argh! Unless they've successfully created Platinums from this line of Lessers, they shouldn't be called Lessers. If they turn out not to be compatible, then we're going to have Platinum-producing and non-Platinum-producing Lessers, and no one will know the difference without breeding them first! >.<

Lesser Platinum was the name given the morph originally but people just stopped saying platinum and just call them lessers

 

[stevek123]

So, are all Butters from the same butter daddy bloodline or have more wild ones been introduces?

 

[snakesRkewl]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record

Butters didn't come in attached to the het platty so they have nothing to do with the platty daddy project or the butter daddy project.

The butter is a stand alone gene the same as the lesser.

Platty daddy comes in and gets bred and makes lessers and "normals" that we now now as het platty's.
The lesser is named lesser platinum at first but has now been shortened to lesser only.

Any lesser brought in from the wild would still be a lesser as the gene is an incomplete dominate trait and has nothing to do with the het platty gene except that Ralph got lucky and imported a combo het platty/lesser.

Where's the confusion
Any lesser is a lesser and if anything the real test would be "does it make a BEL?".

 

[stevek123]

Think I got it. The platty daddy is not a lesser, anymore than a lesser is a platty daddy. I't just that some lesser can be het platty daddy. All true lessers should produce BEL's. The same goes for butters and the butter daddy.

 

[snakesRkewl]

Think I got it. The platty daddy is not a lesser, anymore than a lesser is a platty daddy. I't just that some lesser can be het platty daddy. All true lessers should produce BEL's. The same goes for butters and the butter daddy.

The platty daddy is a two gene snake, it is a lesser and a het platty all in one.

 

[stevek123]

Thanks Jerry!

 

[snakesRkewl]

Thanks Jerry!

You're welcome

 

[scratchypen]

Jerry, For sure, keep in touch with me! I really, really want to try to get on the super stripe band wagon but my $ are..well..lets say not there. Keep me informed.

 

[dustinNMpythons]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record

Butters didn't come in attached to the het platty so they have nothing to do with the platty daddy project or the butter daddy project.

The butter is a stand alone gene the same as the lesser.

Platty daddy comes in and gets bred and makes lessers and "normals" that we now now as het platty's.
The lesser is named lesser platinum at first but has now been shortened to lesser only.

Any lesser brought in from the wild would still be a lesser as the gene is an incomplete dominate trait and has nothing to do with the het platty gene except that Ralph got lucky and imported a combo het platty/lesser.

Where's the confusion
Any lesser is a lesser and if anything the real test would be "does it make a BEL?".

Yes the platty gene is a gene all in its own but from what I've seen of it, it only reacts with butter and lesser so I wouldn't totally rule out that lesser's and butter's aren't the same if not just a different line of the same thing. Just like black pastels and cinni's. Now if someone comes on here and shows me an enchi daddy then I'll take that back but even when mixed with phantoms and mystics the lessers and butters make BEL's. The only one that is different but on the same allele I would say is the mojave's and mocha's. I don't know enough about the russo's and such to commend on them.

 

[snakesRkewl]

I haven't a clue whether they are the same or not, they might just be selectively out crossed right in the wild but be the exact same thing, I do not know even after breeding a butter and a lesser together I do not know.

I do know the butter I breed looks very different from the lesser male...

Butter female

Lesser male

 

[stevek123]

Jerry, They are quite different looking. and I have seen some that look the same, at least to me. Do you prefer one over the other for specific projects?

 

[snakesRkewl]

I prefer the clean look of the no-spot lesser for queenbee projects and other spider projects, the other look is brighter with some of those combos that you won't be so worried about spots in the pattern.

 

[MrBig]

Im suprised at all the confusion and misinformation surrounding the lesser, platty, and butter genes. There has only been one Platinum import that I am aware of and that was RD's Platty Daddy. There have been imports of both the lesser and the butter gene other then the original Platty Daddy (the butter was proven the same time as the lesser as pointed out.) The lesser and butter genes are both compatable with the het daddy gene, and compatable with each other to make BELs. Lessers tend to have deeper blacks then butters, but this varies and is mostly random. I've noticed most butters have less spots then lessers, but this is just an observation.

Those are the facts as I understand them. This leads me to some other questions. Has anyone tried to cross the het Daddy gene to Spector, Mojo, Russo to see if the het daddy is passed? I ask because it seems to only interact with the BEL complex genes. So sorry, looks like no enchi platinum without lesser.I have my doubts about the spetor and russo working, but really wonder about Mojo.

Is the het Daddy a rec. gene then? Can there be a visual form of the Het Daddy without the lesser or butter gene involved. I understand that the gene can only be passed in the normal looking offspring from a platinum breeding, but that doesn't exactly line up with how a rec. gene works. The odds lessen but you can produce more hets from hetxhet breeding, I have not heard of this happening with het daddy though. Is it only because there are far fewer of them available then other hets?

There have been random occurances of the het daddy gene being carried unknowingly by "normal" females. The result was unexpected clutches of Platty Daddies. In most of these cases the lineage of the normal could not be traced. Are they all offspring that was let go by Ralph before he realized what was going on? Or were some of them imports or offspring of imports? One such case was in the UK, so it begs to argue that maybe more then one het daddy gene has been imported but were not yet attached to the lesser or butter gene.

Interesteing topics on my favorite complex of morphs. Keep the comments, feedback, information and best of all pictures comming. Thanks ahead of time for any help that can be offered to answer the questions presented.

 

[dustinNMpythons]

Im suprised at all the confusion and misinformation surrounding the lesser, platty, and butter genes. There has only been one Platinum import that I am aware of and that was RD's Platty Daddy. There have been imports of both the lesser and the butter gene other then the original Platty Daddy (the butter was proven the same time as the lesser as pointed out.) The lesser and butter genes are both compatable with the het daddy gene, and compatable with each other to make BELs. Lessers tend to have deeper blacks then butters, but this varies and is mostly random. I've noticed most butters have less spots then lessers, but this is just an observation.

Those are the facts as I understand them. This leads me to some other questions. Has anyone tried to cross the het Daddy gene to Spector, Mojo, Russo to see if the het daddy is passed? I ask because it seems to only interact with the BEL complex genes. So sorry, looks like no enchi platinum without lesser.I have my doubts about the spetor and russo working, but really wonder about Mojo.

Is the het Daddy a rec. gene then? Can there be a visual form of the Het Daddy without the lesser or butter gene involved. I understand that the gene can only be passed in the normal looking offspring from a platinum breeding, but that doesn't exactly line up with how a rec. gene works. The odds lessen but you can produce more hets from hetxhet breeding, I have not heard of this happening with het daddy though. Is it only because there are far fewer of them available then other hets?

There have been random occurances of the het daddy gene being carried unknowingly by "normal" females. The result was unexpected clutches of Platty Daddies. In most of these cases the lineage of the normal could not be traced. Are they all offspring that was let go by Ralph before he realized what was going on? Or were some of them imports or offspring of imports? One such case was in the UK, so it begs to argue that maybe more then one het daddy gene has been imported but were not yet attached to the lesser or butter gene.

Interesteing topics on my favorite complex of morphs. Keep the comments, feedback, information and best of all pictures comming. Thanks ahead of time for any help that can be offered to answer the questions presented.

Mike I wasn't saying that an enchi would be compatible with the platty gene, I was making a point that if the platty is only compatible with butters and lessers then in my eyes they are the same gene but different lines. Kind of like fire, ember, sulfur, lemonback.....etc all same lines of black eye lucy. The only way this would be possible though is if the platty gene doesn't mix with russo, mojave and the rest of the BEL complex. On your question of it being recessive, it can't be recessive if it only reacts to lessers and butters. If it has a super form it would be co-dom and if it has no super form it would be dominant which is what the specter is classified as right now.

 

[dustinNMpythons]

And where did specter come from.....that gene reacts with yellowbelly not mojave, lesser, butter, russo, etc. Did you mean Mocha? And you also asked:

"Has anyone tried to cross the het Daddy gene to Spector, Mojo, Russo to see if the het daddy is passed?"

The het daddy gene will pass to anything as long as it comes from a visual daddy. If you take a visual platty daddy and breed it to anything the combo lessers won't have the gene and ALL the snakes without lesser will have the daddy gene. You could then breed those to a lesser to make combo daddys.

 

[snakesRkewl]

Is the het Daddy a rec. gene then? Can there be a visual form of the Het Daddy without the lesser or butter gene involved. I understand that the gene can only be passed in the normal looking offspring from a platinum breeding, but that doesn't exactly line up with how a rec. gene works. The odds lessen but you can produce more hets from hetxhet breeding, I have not heard of this happening with het daddy though. Is it only because there are far fewer of them available then other hets?

Het Daddy is not a recessive gene but rather a dominate unless a super is made, which as far as I know hasn't been

Platty daddy X normal = lessers and het daddy's, no normals

Similar to:

superstripe X normal = yellowbellys and specters, no normals

In other words the platty daddy works like a super form but since both genes are on the same allele then it can only pass on one or the other.

You can breed a platty daddy to any gene and anything that isn't a lesser will be a het daddy or het daddy combo.

*I see Ralph is calling it het daddy and not het platty

 

[MrBig]

Then what of the claims that there are homo. het daddy without the lesser gene. So it's either a codom or dominant, which explains the whole het question.

I really wish people would come up with better names then het for codom genes. Between all this and het reds I just think people could be more original with names.

 

[MrBig]

Dustin yes Mocha not spector. Got distracted just then with a phone call about a spector.