Ball Python Auctions!!!!!! Please be careful...

[Tropoddity]

There are all these auctions popping up everywhere to sell Ball python morphs. This not a good idea it will kill that market. People will catch on and set up fake bids, they will have a friend always out bid the highest until they get to where they want. This is a old school scam. Watch out and be careful where you do auctions and who the person is that is doing it. Just looking out for everyone. Serious about this. They are all over Facebook now.

 

[FireStorm]

There are all these auctions popping up everywhere to sell Ball python morphs. This not a good idea it will kill that market. People will catch on and set up fake bids, they will have a friend always out bid the highest until they get to where they want. This is a old school scam. Watch out and be careful where you do auctions and who the person is that is doing it. Just looking out for everyone. Serious about this. They are all over Facebook now.

I find this topic pretty interesting. I spent a decent amount of time as a kid attending thoroughbred auctions, and I've always loved auctions because of it. So its interesting to me to see everyone's reaction now that all these ball python auctions are happening. Out of curiosity, why do you think these auctions will kill the market?

Also, on the subject of people bidding on their own animals until a desired price is met, or having others do it for them, this is a well known common practice in thoroughbred auctions. IMO, it isn't a scam (with the exception of "penny auctions" where you have to pay to bid, but they seem like a ripoff to me anyway). The reason consigned bidding (that's when the person selling/consigning the animal bids on it) is preferred by some over just setting a reserve is that it allows the seller to guage interest and react accordingly instead of being locked in to a reserve. Its also worth noting that in thoroughbred auctions where a reserve is used the auctioneer and spotters (the guys who look for bids and relay them to the auctioneer) know what the reserve is and will work the bids up to get them past the reserve, so its not really that different than consigned bidding.

Anyways, just thought I would offer something for comparison.

 

[Tropoddity]

Also, on the subject of people bidding on their own animals until a desired price is met, or having others do it for them, this is a well known common practice in thoroughbred auctions. IMO, it isn't a scam

How can it not be a scam if the other people bidding, do not know they are being hustled by hidden bidders. So you are saying that is ok?

 

[FireStorm]

It isn't a scam because you are free to stop bidding whenever the price gets higher than what you are willing to pay, and you aren't out any money at that point (like I said, I'm not talking about penny auctions).

Here's an example of how I would approach an auction (doesn't really matter if it's a snake, a horse, or an inanimate object). First I decide what animal(s)/item I'm interested in and do some research to determine how much I'm willing to pay. The amount of research depends on what exactly I'm buying of course. For ball pythons, it could be as simple as a quick look through the classifieds to see what similar animals are selling for. I set an absolute maximum amount for myself, and I won't bid higher than that. If the animal sells for less than my max, great, if not, then I get outbid. I don't buy the animal, but I'm not out anything other than the time I spent watching the auction.

From my perspective, it doesn't matter who I'm bidding against. Whether I'm bidding against the owner, the owner's friend, or some guy I've never met the outcome is the same. I will either buy the animal if it can be had for a price that I'm willing to pay, or I won't if the price gets too high. No one is forcing me to bid more than what I want to pay. As long as the animal is as described, its not a scam.

Let's say that, for example, Lesser females are selling for $250 to $300 in the classifieds (not an auction) but I list mine for $400 because I really like her so I want more (not saying she's especially nice, just that I want $400). Is that a scam in your opinion?

Also, disregard the frowny face in my first post...I didn't even notice that until I came back to reply. Looks like that's what I get for typing my first post on my phone. I really am interested in having a friendly discussion about this since it's a topic that interests me.

 

[deborahbroadus]

IMO, it's a form of dishonesty.
If seller wants XXX amount of dollars, instead of putting "spotters" in the audience, he should simply PRICE the animal and be done with it.

It is unfair to allow/con bidders to think that they are in an honest bidding forum. Not to mention, that the one ultimately winning could possibly end up feeling robbed if the information regarding the "rigged" bidding came to light.

 

[Wilomn]

IMO, it's a form of dishonesty.
If seller wants XXX amount of dollars, instead of putting "spotters" in the audience, he should simply PRICE the animal and be done with it.

It is unfair to allow/con bidders to think that they are in an honest bidding forum. Not to mention, that the one ultimately winning could possibly end up feeling robbed if the information regarding the "rigged" bidding came to light.

ballbids showed how not to do it. Done properly and up front, how could it be dishonest?

I'm also unsure how come he should sell his snakes the way YOU, ms. broadus, thinks he should.

Can you explain that or do you simply still think that no matter what your opinion is on something it is the only opinion worth having?

We've seen what happened with little zackeroni and his less than sharp pal. They were simply too stupid to realize that the jig was up and then they had the balls, heh heh heh, to keep trying to fool us.

However, if the game isn't rigged, there is nothing I can see wrong with that method of selling anything.

Perhaps you could educate me, you do seem to love to educate people.

 

[Tropoddity]

Here is a great example! You have a guy shuffling cards at a corner. He lets a couple of his own friends win to make the game really interesting. But what the other viewers do not realize those winners are his friends. And the game is always rigged in the players favor. May be to street to understand, but it is like polishing poop! No matter what or how you do it. It is still tricking people into it. Trickery is the devils game. I do not understand how it is fare to have false bidders, I want that answered.

 

[Tropoddity]

I smell Hustle and scam before it is even designed. Trust me, 20+ years in the music game will teach you who is BS and who is not. This is shady gambling at its finest. I am glad you bring up thoroughbred auctions to make scamming more classy! My uncle was in the thoroughbred circuit, years ago. Yes he did study the market, and also got tips from people on the inside to help him bid and bet on the right horses. So, regardless you can't make cheating people a classy practice. I guess that is what you are trying to say right? This is another form of high class bidding?

I saw some poor sucker by roaches for to dang high, and the auction end still didn't deliver. I am also saying the bidding thing started to leak into places where it does not need to be. Facebook, not a great idea,that is the scam artist paradise.

Just like drug dealers give people a taste they get addicted then they mess up peoples lives. It can become very addictive once you let them win a couple times right? No matter how you look at it is a scam. Ok, lets call it a classy scam.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I smell Hustle and scam before it is even designed. Trust me, 20+ years in the music game will teach you who is BS and who is not. This is shady gambling at its finest. I am glad you bring up thoroughbred auctions to make scamming more classy! My uncle was in the thoroughbred circuit, years ago. Yes he did study the market, and also got tips from people on the inside to help him bid and bet on the right horses. So, regardless you can't make cheating people a classy practice. I guess that is what you are trying to say right? This is another form of high class bidding?

I saw some poor sucker by roaches for to dang high, and the auction end still didn't deliver. I am also saying the bidding thing started to leak into places where it does not need to be. Facebook, not a great idea,that is the scam artist paradise.

Just like drug dealers give people a taste they get addicted then they mess up peoples lives. It can become very addictive once you let them win a couple times right? No matter how you look at it is a scam. Ok, lets call it a classy scam.

It doesn't matter what "forum/method" one uses to sell their snakes, the point is the ethics behind the method. Rigging a bidding even if it's just because the seller has a certain number in mind and the rigged bidders are friends and the buyers got what they paid for... is still dishonest (IMO) and all the excuses given are simply rationalizations...whether it done in a classy or ghetto way.

 

[Camel413]

I have to agree with Firestorm. IMO its all in the wording being used to describe the action. I dont think it is a "scam" I think he made a logical explanation to that. Would I call it shady, maybe but not a scam.

 

[FireStorm]

Here is a great example! You have a guy shuffling cards at a corner. He lets a couple of his own friends win to make the game really interesting. But what the other viewers do not realize those winners are his friends. And the game is always rigged in the players favor. May be to street to understand, but it is like polishing poop! No matter what or how you do it. It is still tricking people into it. Trickery is the devils game. I do not understand how it is fare to have false bidders, I want that answered.

In the scenario I was describing, I was not talking about having fake auction winners. The winning bid is the price the animal actually sells for (unless the owner is the high bidder, in which case there is no sale - and I'm not advocating that the seller "pretends" a sale occurred in that case).

I smell Hustle and scam before it is even designed. Trust me, 20+ years in the music game will teach you who is BS and who is not. This is shady gambling at its finest. I am glad you bring up thoroughbred auctions to make scamming more classy! My uncle was in the thoroughbred circuit, years ago. Yes he did study the market, and also got tips from people on the inside to help him bid and bet on the right horses. So, regardless you can't make cheating people a classy practice. I guess that is what you are trying to say right? This is another form of high class bidding?

I saw some poor sucker by roaches for to dang high, and the auction end still didn't deliver. I am also saying the bidding thing started to leak into places where it does not need to be. Facebook, not a great idea,that is the scam artist paradise.

Just like drug dealers give people a taste they get addicted then they mess up peoples lives. It can become very addictive once you let them win a couple times right? No matter how you look at it is a scam. Ok, lets call it a classy scam.

I think you misunderstood my reference to the thoroughbred industry. There is a HUGE difference between bidding on (and maybe ultimately buying) horses at auction and betting on horses in a race. Buying (anything) at auction is not a form of gambling and shouldn't be viewed as such. It isn't really fair to compare buying something at auction to betting on cards (or anything else).

Just to clarify the thoroughbred example, if I bid on a horse at auction I am attempting to purchase the horse. Essentially my bid is the price I am offering to pay. If I bid $20,000 and no one outbids me I buy the horse for $20,000. If I bid $20,000 and someone else bids $21,000 then I don't buy the horse but I'm not out any money either (unless I bid again and win). If I bet on a horse in a race, I'm wagering an amount of money that the horse will win. If the horse wins, I get back more than I bet and if it doesn't, I lose my money. So race fixing is a totally separate issue from what takes place at auctions.

It doesn't matter what "forum/method" one uses to sell their snakes, the point is the ethics behind the method. Rigging a bidding even if it's just because the seller has a certain number in mind and the rigged bidders are friends and the buyers got what they paid for... is still dishonest (IMO) and all the excuses given are simply rationalizations...whether it done in a classy or ghetto way.

Just wanted to point out that I've participated in auctions only as a buyer, so please don't imply that I'm making excuses/rationalizing because I sell my animals a certain way. And as a buyer, I've never felt scammed purchasing something at auction, regardless of who was bidding.

 

[HerpVenue]

My uncle was in the thoroughbred circuit, years ago. Yes he did study the market, and also got tips from people on the inside to help him bid and bet on the right horses.

I think you misunderstood. The person said bid on horses. It means they were buying. NOT BETTING.

 

[Tropoddity]

If you look at my title on this post what does it say.... BE CAREFUL! I am clearly looking out for the best interest of people going to auctions. When you turn a hustle or scam into a trend that is dangerious. This is why they tryed to ban Gangstar Rap and Metal years ago. People have know clue who is running it, yet they are still bidding at will. I also still see polishing poop. Maybe I am being missunderunderstood. No matter how it is done if you have hidden bidders....... Hidden bidders..... Hidden Bidders..... It is tricking the other aucitonors. CLASSY HUSTLE, SCAM. Sorry, I still can not see anything positive in auctions. When you get one of those guys to yell out the bids that speak 100 miles a minute. That is a way of getting peoples adrenaline pumping, which is a psychologyical trick.

The reptile industry is in enough threat as it is, now they want to bring gambling into it. It makes the industry look BAD! That is another reason why it will kill the market!!!!! I my self am constently trying to educate people about reptiles and letting people know they are great pets to own. While I am doing this a reptile pimp decides he wants to start gambling or you guys call it auctions.

 

[Tropoddity]

I am sorry if I missunderstood. I just do not like how it is leaking out everywhere, in the hands of dirty people. If somone decided to do a auction and a percentage went to help something, yes they do that all the time and it is done for good fun and for a good cause. I just think it is getting into the wrong hands.

All we need is some rich kid to take daddy's money, from a daddy who happens to be a power lawyer. and place a "bid" on a auction, he doesn't win fare. The rich kid runs to daddy tells daddy. Daddy says no one does that to my son, LAW suit! Media smells this, then finds another great opportunity to make the reptile business look bad.... I know media.... Not Good

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Wouldn't a legitimate auction be, well, legit? However if someone is placing shill bets or having friends bid up to raise the price, of course that is not legit and would be a scam. It sounds like you are saying any auction is a scam?

 

[deborahbroadus]

Wouldn't a legitimate auction be, well, legit? However if someone is placing shill bets or having friends bid up to raise the price, of course that is not legit and would be a scam. It sounds like you are saying any auction is a scam?

YES! That's exactly the way I read it.

I'll wait for clarification just in case I am missing a point or not understanding.

 

[Tropoddity]

Not all auctions are scams. I am not saying that I am simply telling people to be careful and there are people who do that. Very simple. We were just told that having hidden bidders is a common practice and I found that a little odd. Hence, in my first post I stated to be careful and there are people that do that. My post was confirmed..................

 

[FireStorm]

The reptile industry is in enough threat as it is, now they want to bring gambling into it. It makes the industry look BAD! That is another reason why it will kill the market!!!!! I my self am constently trying to educate people about reptiles and letting people know they are great pets to own. While I am doing this a reptile pimp decides he wants to start gambling or you guys call it auctions.

I'm not sure why you keep referring to auctions as gambling. It's beginning to make me wonder if we are talking about the same thing. An auction is "a public sale in which property or items of merchandise are sold to the highest bidder" (copied and pasted from the free online dictionary). An auction is a sale. It is not a form of gambling. To gamble means "to play a game of chance for stakes" or "to bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest" (also from the free online dictionary). When I bid (not bet) on an auction I don't have anything at stake. The only way money changes hands is if I win the auction, at which point it becomes a purchase and carries the usual risks associated with purchasing an animal.

I am sorry if I missunderstood. I just do not like how it is leaking out everywhere, in the hands of dirty people. If somone decided to do a auction and a percentage went to help something, yes they do that all the time and it is done for good fun and for a good cause. I just think it is getting into the wrong hands.

All we need is some rich kid to take daddy's money, from a daddy who happens to be a power lawyer. and place a "bid" on a auction, he doesn't win fare. The rich kid runs to daddy tells daddy. Daddy says no one does that to my son, LAW suit! Media smells this, then finds another great opportunity to make the reptile business look bad.... I know media.... Not Good

So we shouldn't have auctions because someone might sue us? I'm sorry to compare this to the thoroughbred industry again, but it's the best comparison I can think of at the moment. There's tons of money in horse racing (more than in reptiles, I'm fairly sure) and tons of "rich kids". Yet auctions happen all the time (more than private sales), and lawsuits don't.

I think it's great to warn people that auctions carry different pitfalls than private sales, but you really come across as saying that no one should buy or sell at auction (unless it's for a good cause). I personally like buying at auction, and am aware of the potential pitfalls. I don't think auctions are making the industry look bad, and I don't think they need to be shut down.

 

[Wilomn]

I'm not in the horse world but I'm pretty sure there aren't any penny auctions going on there.

That's the pitfall. It's very easy to scam in a penny auction. little zackeroni and avi dervonder programmer proved themselves to be lying sacks of crap that rigged their entire site. With the penny auctions you don't see fellow bidders, the time is reset after every bid, and you need to have faith that the guys behind the scenes are trustworthy.

Neither of the clowns running ballbids was trustworthy at all.

So I'm not so sure how your horse auctions really compare to penny auctions. Unless, of course, there actually are penny auctions for thoroughbreds.

 

[FireStorm]

In my first post, I specifically said I wasn't talking about penny auctions, and since the OP never specified that he was talking about penny auctions, I interpreted his posts to be referring to all auctions in general and not penny auctions specifically.