MAGGOTS SWIMMING IN OPEN BALL PYTHON EGG

[hussler1984]

sorry but pictures of this would be too disturbing to post

This is why I dont cut eggs early unless its absolutly necessary!

Last breeding season i had a clutch of eggs. I just couldent wait to see what was inside. After watching tons of youtube vids, and reading I figured id go ahead and cut into them on day 55. When I cut into them i found 3 mojaves and 3 normals. Sweet clutch, I stuck them back into the container and into the incubator. Come to find out my helix said 90 deg. but inside when hit with a temp gun said 87! so on day 55 it was more like day 45. The babies stayed in there eggs for a little over a week and a half. Allowing enough time for some fiesty gnats to somehow get into the eggs where they were sitting in. on a daily basis i had to pick little maggots out of the eggs, and started to notice the fluid in the eggs was starting to rot while the snakes inside were slowly absorbing it. yuk! Eventually all the snakes came out on there own except for one that was just swimming with maggots, he never came out. I carefully pulled the living snake out and saw that the little sack atached to its belly was completly infested with maggots and stunk like hell. I got a pair of sissors and cut the imbilical cord and tossed the unabsorbed sack into the toilet. now i had a very weak baby snake in my hand bleeding profusely out of its imbilical cord. I quickly grabbed a piece of thread and tied it off. After a few force feedings, because the snake was way to weak to eat, it started to eat on its own later dropping its little crusty imbilical cord with a string tied to it.

QUESTION. HOW ON EARTH DO YOU KILL MAGGOTS THAT ARE SWIMMING IN AN EGG THAT YOU CUT TOO EARLY, WITH OUT HARMING THE BABY RELYING ON THE FLUID AS FOOD?

Simply plucking them out dosent help they keep multiplying

Im sure this has happend to others they just wont admit it!

LESSON LEARNED I JUST WAIT FOR THEM TO COME OUT ON THERE OWN

 

[KY Reptiles]

Its always good to cut imo. I waited once for the first one to pip and cut the rest the same day only to find one drowned in his egg. The day before his veins were good. When I candled the egg the next day (the day one had pipped) I knew I had lost him, there were no veins. It really saddened me cause the baby could have been saved if I had just cut them open instead of waiting. I am now a firm believer in cutting at or around day 52. Better safe than sorry and I know if I lose a baby then it was either not meant to be or something wrong I had done.

As for the maggot thing, I can't help ya there but there are others this has happened to and I'm sure they would be more than happy to help. Best advice I can give is to make sure your incubator is completely sealed.

 

[MrBig]

How is it that you have more problems with clean enviroments then anyone I've seen on here? 6 dead snakes from RI, maggots in eggs, and more with RIs. I think it might be time to step back from reptiles and spend alittle time cleaning.

 

[deborahbroadus]

In this case, preventation may have worked. Taping the eggs/gluing them shut (whatever method used) may *stress MAY* have prevented this from happening, all other things being equal.

With the temperature flux that you mentioned and unknown sterility of the environment...it makes things a bit more dicy. However, I have cut early and not had maggots in any of the clutches I cut early....so IDK.

 

[ShadowAceD]

How is it that you have more problems with clean enviroments then anyone I've seen on here? 6 dead snakes from RI, maggots in eggs, and more with RIs. I think it might be time to step back from reptiles and spend alittle time cleaning.

I have to wonder this myself.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt in your last thread, but this is just kind of getting ridiculous.

I have heard of something similar happening, but the eggs were cut at day 30 and the "maggots" were just larvae for flies, not necessarily maggots ... but the term itself can be used for a variety of flys, not just those that are feasting on deteriorating flesh.

But either way ... given all the issues you have had with BPs, I really think you need to reevaluate some things before moving forward with breeding.

I am not trying to be a jerk by any means, but seriously ...

 

[Willow]

I have heard plenty of maggots in eggs storys....and people have no issue what so ever admitting it, because it happens. So I'm not sure what you where tryin to say about people not willing to admit it....in fact if you do some research you can find all the info you need on something like this. Including pics!

best way to deal with them, is not to get them.....once you do, you just keep plucking them out until the baby comes out of the egg. There is nothing you can put in the egg liquid that will deter maggots and not kill your baby at the same time. You can try covering the egg, or sealing the incubator better (the bugs had to get inside somehow) But don't be shocked if you still have issues.

Try just getting rid of all the bugs....do some major cleaning...hang some fly strips to catch the adults that are making the larvae.

I really should avoid chiming in with anyone else on the amount of current issues you have been having with all your snakes....

 

[Focal]

sorry but pictures of this would be too disturbing to post

This is why I dont cut eggs early unless its absolutly necessary!

Last breeding season i had a clutch of eggs. I just couldent wait to see what was inside. After watching tons of youtube vids, and reading I figured id go ahead and cut into them on day 55. When I cut into them i found 3 mojaves and 3 normals. Sweet clutch, I stuck them back into the container and into the incubator. Come to find out my helix said 90 deg. but inside when hit with a temp gun said 87! so on day 55 it was more like day 45. The babies stayed in there eggs for a little over a week and a half. Allowing enough time for some fiesty gnats to somehow get into the eggs where they were sitting in. on a daily basis i had to pick little maggots out of the eggs, and started to notice the fluid in the eggs was starting to rot while the snakes inside were slowly absorbing it. yuk! Eventually all the snakes came out on there own except for one that was just swimming with maggots, he never came out. I carefully pulled the living snake out and saw that the little sack atached to its belly was completly infested with maggots and stunk like hell. I got a pair of sissors and cut the imbilical cord and tossed the unabsorbed sack into the toilet. now i had a very weak baby snake in my hand bleeding profusely out of its imbilical cord. I quickly grabbed a piece of thread and tied it off. After a few force feedings, because the snake was way to weak to eat, it started to eat on its own later dropping its little crusty imbilical cord with a string tied to it.

QUESTION. HOW ON EARTH DO YOU KILL MAGGOTS THAT ARE SWIMMING IN AN EGG THAT YOU CUT TOO EARLY, WITH OUT HARMING THE BABY RELYING ON THE FLUID AS FOOD?

Simply plucking them out dosent help they keep multiplying

Im sure this has happend to others they just wont admit it!

LESSON LEARNED I JUST WAIT FOR THEM TO COME OUT ON THERE OWN

I would post the pictures. It would be a good move for identifying the problem pest and showing others what to look for.

I'm not sure how the fly's are getting in, nor others experiences with incubators, but that can't be good. All my clutches are sealed from exterior contaminants by both the egg tub and the incubator. If your incubator is allowing fly's to come and go, then most likely that's the source of your inaccurate temp readings and incubation fault. What kind of incubator are you using because there is a good chance it may not be a good choice?

Deb is right. Prevention is the answer to your problem. I would hope this problem doesn't happen again, but if someone were to run into this problem, I would seal the eggs off after removing all the "maggots" that I could with supervised air exchange a couple times a day. Once they start breathing on their own, I would open it up a bit more. At that point they should be out in no time. Had the eggs not been cut early, I don't think they would have had enough time to be infested.

I'm not sure if you realized your error with handling the umbilical cord, but I will point it out just in case. That should have been tied off BEFORE you cut it.

Some people will say cutting early is not going to affect the hatchlings. In a perfect atmosphere, that very well could be correct. I would suggest not cutting the eggs until the first one pips for the reasons above. Once you have a few seasons down, once you are confident in your incubator, temps and husbandry, then it might be worth venturing into. But when you are doing more harm than good, it's best to wait and let nature run it's course. You might save one, but you could lose all.

 

[GREGORY J HALL]

Dont cut :0

 

[phoenix-cry]

Maggots only eat dead flesh. They can not eat healthy live tissue. That is why maggots are placed on wounds in medicine to eat away the dead tissue and clean the wound. If the cut egg has a healthy snake in it there will be no harm done by the maggot.

 

[Willow]

Maggots only eat dead flesh. They can not eat healthy live tissue. That is why maggots are placed on wounds in medicine to eat away the dead tissue and clean the wound. If the cut egg has a healthy snake in it there will be no harm done by the maggot.

You are mildly correct....the maggots wont eat the healthy baby....but they can cause high amounts of harmful stress on the baby, making development stressful and more difficult.

 

[Focal]

Although probably not in this case, myiasis is an infection from larvae eating living tissue

 

[Focal]

Here's the little bugger:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochliomyia_hominivorax

 

[R. Eventide]

Maggots only eat dead flesh. They can not eat healthy live tissue. That is why maggots are placed on wounds in medicine to eat away the dead tissue and clean the wound. If the cut egg has a healthy snake in it there will be no harm done by the maggot.

Perhaps maggots, specifically, don't, but these could've easily been some other, similar, kind of larvae. I'm not going to explain the situation (it's really gross and doesn't have anything to do with snakes, anyway), but I've had fly (?) larvae appear and grow in something that was most definitely not dead tissue. Or live tissue. Few things make me want to hurl, but that...wow, man.... Ugh.

 

[hhmoore]

Maggots only eat dead flesh. They can not eat healthy live tissue. That is why maggots are placed on wounds in medicine to eat away the dead tissue and clean the wound. If the cut egg has a healthy snake in it there will be no harm done by the maggot.

You are mildly correct....the maggots wont eat the healthy baby....but they can cause high amounts of harmful stress on the baby, making development stressful and more difficult.

Actually, as Krystal indicated, they can eat living tissue. I have seen maggots (or whatever type of larva) in living tissue of both animals and people - including some places most people probably wouldn't like thinking about. I have had maggots appear in hatched eggs when one baby hatches earlier than the others. Since the egg is often adhered, it cannot easily be removed; and cutting it just spills the fluid, so the incubation media would then be the site. I have also witnessed a situation in which eggs were cut early and became maggot ridden. Because they were cut early, the fully formed babies were killed & ultimately devoured. It was kind of disgusting to watch - I'm not sure I could have let the process continue, myself; but, he wanted to see if they babies would hatch because they were pretty close. I'm thankful that I didn't have to witness the entire process - I was there the day the maggots were discovered, and for a few days after...but I received a few picture heavy updates via email, with the final shot being of skeletal remains being lifted out of a mass of larvae. I wish I could show pics, but that was a long time ago (years before I started participating on this forum), and I didn't save them.

 

[hhmoore]

For clarification, if I remember the progression correctly:
The babies were fully formed and moving when the maggots appeared.
Over a few days, as the maggot population increased, the babies started getting "twitchy".
Later (sorry, I can't provide a real timetable), they were noticed to be deteriorating...white areas turned pink, some reddish spots; and the babies were less active - but still moved when a swab was used for stimulation.
No further movement.
Fully eaten.

I can't say that the maggots started eating the babies while they were alive, but the babies did seem to show signs of skin compromise before they were dead. Regardless, their death was caused by the maggots, and they were eventually fully consumed.

 

[hussler1984]

@MR.BIG

WHAT THE HECK LOL


How is it that you have more problems with clean enviroments then anyone I've seen on here? 6 dead snakes from RI, maggots in eggs, and more with RIs. I think it might be time to step back from reptiles and spend alittle time cleaning.


WHERE DID YOU GET THIS INFORMATION.
CLEARLY NOT FROM ME
6 dead snakes from RI! AND MORE WITH RIs

OH HEAVENS NO!

 

[hhmoore]

6 dead snakes from RI

That was another member - in the temp vs humidity thread

 

[MrBig]

I apologize profusely for the confusion, and you are correct I was the one confused. I read the humidity-temp thread, your other post then this one and for some reason attributed all 3 cases to you. I was perterbed by the other post of 6 dead snakes and then read this and kind of blurted out a response in anger.
That being said if you are fairly new to breeding you far more likely to experience issues when cutting then you will with natural pipping. I'm confused that it was day 55 and it was the first time you checked the eggbox temp? I personally would spend alittle more time to fine tune my husbandry before I would attempt to breed again. Get your incubator running with an empty egg box in it long before you get eggs on the ground (mine is in a test run right now with 3 test tubs since I will have at least that many at a time in there this season.)
As to avoiding the maggots in the future, I would suggest to clean the enviroment, seal the incubator, and not to cut until the first one pips on its own. As to dealing with them once they arrive I can't chime in as I've never experienced it. I try to keep the incubator and surrounding area as clean as possible, and resist the temptation to cut before the first one pips. Far too many new breeders see this as common practice and something trivial. We've all seen the hack jobs on some eggs in threads. I personally don't want to deal with maggots or risk the health of my snakes simply to get an early peek. I don't begrudge the more experienced herpers who can successfully cut early with no complications, but for me the risks far outweigh the rewards. This case in point.

 

[MrBig]

Harald, when they are cojoined why not simply cut away as much of the abandoned eggs as possible. If there are no flies or other insects to come in contact with the exposed egg then no larvae can be laid in the exposed egg. How well sealed are peoples incubators? Mine is as close to airtight as possible. I use a small fridge and the holes for wires are all siliconed. The only time insects could present themselves is when the substrate is prepared or when I open the door. I have a window in the door to reduce the amount of times I have to open it, and I take care to insure that the area and materials are clean when I deal with the substrate or any egg boxes.

 

[hhmoore]

As I indicated in the earlier post, cutting the hatched egg away just spills residual fluid into the incubation media. The process is simpler to just leave them there for the few days until everything hatches, and the cleanup afterwards is easier. Besides, I'm not always checking every day, so it can happen before I notice...and I think they're nasty enough that I don't want to cut the hatched eggs out if they're already there, lol
I'm pretty sure that (in recent years) I've only experienced this with my bullsnake eggs, as they are just sitting in a box on a shelf ...and the box usually has some small holes in it. There isn't really any reason to bother cut the hatched egg away, IMO. The other babies will hatch when they hatch. While I'm not "okay" with the fact that occasionally I see some maggots in a hatched egg before the whole clutch is out, I don't stress all that much about it - I've never had any problems with the hatched babies, or the unhatched eggs. Usually, I will push some of the vermiculite into the hatched egg, and that seems to delay the process - or, at least - hide it, until the rest hatch.