Blue eye bearded dragons Marek's/herpies

[bloodbankdragon]

I have never seen a blue eyed dragon. I don’t believe they exist.

I have seen dragons with white eyes. I have seen dragons with photoshopped eyes.

Recently I have seen dragons with eyes that look diseased.

After year and years of no blue eye mutation reproducing I feel even stronger that there is no such mutation. We don’t have brown, green, blue, ect.

Dragons have white irises with varying degrees of vascular activity. (White to red irises)

This photo may help to understand what is going on.

Normal chicken eye on left. Eye lesions and irregular pupil caused by Marek's disease on right.

After discussing this photo with several breeders disease is the universal conclusion.

Steven Barnes
www.bloodbankdragons.com

 

[Brandon Roesler]

Marek's disease is the universal conclusion??? Where is the link to dragons? For that matter, where is the jump to any other species other than birds??

 

[Sushi Dragons]

This is the wrong forum.

However, I would love to see something in writing regarding studies, documentation, etc. Calling it a "universal conclusion" with absolutely nothing other than a single photo is quite the leap...

 

[Brandon Roesler]

I would consider this to be nothing more than an absence of integrity and character, nothing more.. Because he has never seen it, it doesnt exist?? Because someone else possesses something you dont, you are now trying to steal their potential thunder by BLASTING ALL OVER THE NET on here, kingsnake, bd.org and all over Facespace on several peoples pages that this is fake, they are lying or what they have is nothing more than a diseased ridden animal?? I have never ACTUALLY seen air.. does that mean it doesn't exist? I have never seen God.. does that mean He doesn't exist? What about UFO's??? I could go on and on... Blue eyes do exist, they aren't even new news. That pic of the Rankin was like 6 years old... To me Steven, and I know for a FACT that I do not stand alone, your actions regarding this topic is the perfect example of how an hole would try to stay on top.. out front and on top... People ask you if you have any blue eyes for sale, you say No, sure don't, so they buy from the next guy and you get all in your feelings and decide to bombard the net with this half-cocked theory... Thanks for showing me your true character. Let's see if now that I have posted this all of a sudden everyone is told all my stock has Mad-Cow disease or some other random non-related virus.....

 

[FosterHerpetological]

I would consider this to be nothing more than an absence of integrity and character, nothing more.. Because he has never seen it, it doesnt exist?? Because someone else possesses something you dont, you are now trying to steal their potential thunder by BLASTING ALL OVER THE NET on here, kingsnake, bd.org and all over Facespace on several peoples pages that this is fake, they are lying or what they have is nothing more than a diseased ridden animal?? I have never ACTUALLY seen air.. does that mean it doesn't exist? I have never seen God.. does that mean He doesn't exist? What about UFO's??? I could go on and on... Blue eyes do exist, they aren't even new news. That pic of the Rankin was like 6 years old... To me Steven, and I know for a FACT that I do not stand alone, your actions regarding this topic is the perfect example of how an hole would try to stay on top.. out front and on top... People ask you if you have any blue eyes for sale, you say No, sure don't, so they buy from the next guy and you get all in your feelings and decide to bombard the net with this half-cocked theory... Thanks for showing me your true character. Let's see if now that I have posted this all of a sudden everyone is told all my stock has Mad-Cow disease or some other random non-related virus.....

If you knew Steve, you'd know he would never do anything like that.

 

[DNA Dragons]

I would consider this to be nothing more than an absence of integrity and character, nothing more.. Because he has never seen it, it doesnt exist?? Because someone else possesses something you dont, you are now trying to steal their potential thunder by BLASTING ALL OVER THE NET on here, kingsnake, bd.org and all over Facespace on several peoples pages that this is fake, they are lying or what they have is nothing more than a diseased ridden animal?? I have never ACTUALLY seen air.. does that mean it doesn't exist? I have never seen God.. does that mean He doesn't exist? What about UFO's??? I could go on and on... Blue eyes do exist, they aren't even new news. That pic of the Rankin was like 6 years old... To me Steven, and I know for a FACT that I do not stand alone, your actions regarding this topic is the perfect example of how an hole would try to stay on top.. out front and on top... People ask you if you have any blue eyes for sale, you say No, sure don't, so they buy from the next guy and you get all in your feelings and decide to bombard the net with this half-cocked theory... Thanks for showing me your true character. Let's see if now that I have posted this all of a sudden everyone is told all my stock has Mad-Cow disease or some other random non-related virus.....

Can you honestly say that YOU (yourself) is acting any different than you claim Steven to be, by blasting, making up half cocked-theories, etc? You breed dragons? I bet you do. I also bet you don't know him at all. Right?

 

[DNA Dragons]

This is the wrong forum.

However, I would love to see something in writing regarding studies, documentation, etc. Calling it a "universal conclusion" with absolutely nothing other than a single photo is quite the leap...

Okay, who wants to donate their blue eyed dragon pets/breeders towards research? This is the only way to carry on with the studies needed to actually prove the theory. I will say that disease sounds like a great theory, but there is no research to back this, so until we (only the ones who care) work together and figure it out, all we have are ideas…

Disease does not bother me too much because it apparently will not pass from parent to offspring. I am very interested in this specific topic because the blue eyed trait does not pass from parent to offspring either. Is no one suspicious that there are no blue eyed offspring coming from breeders who claim they work with blue eyed genetics? Do the breeders who make this claim even know what they are in possession of, and do any of us for that matter?

I always assumed it was a polygenic trait that’s mystery would continue to go unanswered. If disease is proven it’s a big deal and a chapter closed. I see from reading around that often people have two dragons with blue eyes, breeders have several, etc, and what I wonder is, where did they come from, why do they have more than one, and why can’t they show evidence of it reproducing? Stevens theory simply answers my questions, but I am still interested in hearing other answers. Seeing the picture of that eye next to a dragons blue eye, looks indeed like the same thing, but it is not evidence, and there is only one way to find out for many of us. To find out people will need to have an experienced person (I am not sure how experienced this person will need to be) examine the carcass of a blue-eyed bearded dragon.

 

[Brandon Roesler]

Can you honestly say that YOU (yourself) is acting any different than you claim Steven to be, by blasting, making up half cocked-theories...

Is this your attempt in trying to justify what he has said and done?? Do you realize what this type of "deflective" behavior resembles?? Look Clay, I'm not involving myself in a pissing contest with you or anyone else for that matter, Especially not in the For-sale forum of a classifieds website. At the very least, I agree with Rachel. More time and research should've been taken to prove beyond some kind of a reasonable doubt before ridiculous accusations were made that may affect someone else's livelihood. Bad Form on his part. No way ANYONE could argue that.

 

[Brandon Roesler]

If you knew Steve, you'd know he would never do anything like that.

Mr. Foster, I sincerely hope that I am wrong and you are right. I would like to think someone of his stature and importance in this Community didn't do this just to be ugly and vindictive. Unfortunately, at this time, that is how this "attack" is being perceived... And perception is reality. That is one thing that apparently escapes most people, its not about your intention, its how it is PERCEIVED by the public as a group and as individuals. And Perception. Is. Reality.

 

[DNA Dragons]

The notification on his part is done for the bettering of the bearded dragon. If your dragon could have a disease would you rather be ignorant to it, advertise it, and sell it, or would you like to be a responsible keeper and know? This is why arguing and making accusations is dumb, if you want to help, help figure it out. Steven does not have the animals to get tested, but someone does. So far, this is the BEST theory related to blue eyed dragons, and many of us people whose livelihoods are affected by what we produce, care about exactly that, what we produce, and that is the bearded dragon. I did not mean to deflect; I was stating an opinion and wishing you would see that in your defense you did everything you claim Steven has, almost to the letter. I have yet to feel Steven has done anything but benefit the people who actually do this for living. I am still curious to see offspring from a blue eyed dragon, in which case, the people who claim to produce them are not affected in any way, because they aer still not doing what they say they can. I may be wrong, I don’t talk to everyone, I just want the answers, and the right ones. I am not discrediting ANYTHING until people know definitively. What I know is that no one reproduces blue eyed dragons, some claim to, but no one does… If it random, a disease, or whatever, all we have got are hypothetical conclusions. If you disagree with one, that is totally fine with me, I would respect that.

 

[hhmoore]

Please do not use the classifieds as a discussion area (whether posting a thread, or replying).

This has been moved to the Bearded Dragon Discussion forum.

 

[Sushi Dragons]

We are on the same page that there needs to be research. But I don't think it's fair to start spouting off something as a definite without any studies or science to back it up.

I personally don't think disease is the reason for blue eyes in dragons, but that is neither here nor there.

However, I think the way that this theory was presented with the short claim of "research" via talking to anonymous breeders and coming up with this completely random conclusion is a fair way to present the idea to the community.

Okay, who wants to donate their blue eyed dragon pets/breeders towards research? This is the only way to carry on with the studies needed to actually prove the theory. I will say that disease sounds like a great theory, but there is no research to back this, so until we (only the ones who care) work together and figure it out, all we have are ideas…

Disease does not bother me too much because it apparently will not pass from parent to offspring. I am very interested in this specific topic because the blue eyed trait does not pass from parent to offspring either. Is no one suspicious that there are no blue eyed offspring coming from breeders who claim they work with blue eyed genetics? Do the breeders who make this claim even know what they are in possession of, and do any of us for that matter?

I always assumed it was a polygenic trait that’s mystery would continue to go unanswered. If disease is proven it’s a big deal and a chapter closed. I see from reading around that often people have two dragons with blue eyes, breeders have several, etc, and what I wonder is, where did they come from, why do they have more than one, and why can’t they show evidence of it reproducing? Stevens theory simply answers my questions, but I am still interested in hearing other answers. Seeing the picture of that eye next to a dragons blue eye, looks indeed like the same thing, but it is not evidence, and there is only one way to find out for many of us. To find out people will need to have an experienced person (I am not sure how experienced this person will need to be) examine the carcass of a blue-eyed bearded dragon.

 

[cguarino30]

I think that the op was jumping the gun a little by declaring that blue eyed dragons are definitively afflicted with Marek's or a similar disease, and while I am still open minded (and indeed hopeful) to a blue-eyed genetic possibility, I would like to put forth the following observation:

I have an adult male that has an eye that has clearly been damaged somehow. My best guess is that it was burned via overexposure to UV light, but I am simply guessing. It occurred before I got him, as I acquired him as an adult, and he already had the condition. The eye has a white, scarred pupil, and he is clearly blind in that eye. The iris is a dark blue-green color with some flecks of brown (Actually quite attractive if it could be genetically reproduced without the injury). His other, good eye is what I would consider the normal gold/bronze beardie iris color.

I am not saying that this proves anything one way or the other, but I think it is worth considering, as it does show evidence that eye color can be affected by factors besides genetics.

 

[DNA Dragons]

I cannot say I disagree with the ideas of Steven being a bit difinitive with this claim. It is simply what he believes to be true with his incredible understanding of the bearded dragon anatomy. I have received pictures from Steven before the post as others have as well, and my initial responce supported the idea. However, eye color is incredibly complex genetically, and it all about the order in which the genes that affect eye color are stacked. Humans have around 9 genes, ours are very complex but hardly the most complex. Bearded dragons could have 20 or more, we simply do not know. Well genetically speaking these genes have to be perfectly arranged to create a new eye color. It may be a 1 in 10,000, and these genes might pop up in any random order and you still get the typical brown/red eye color typically associated with dragons. It just takes that fluke 1 :10,000 where two random genes pair up and make a blue eyed dragon. Now, when you take two bearded dragons both with blue eyes your odds are no better to create more blue eyed dragons because it is all random, they all share the genes, it is just the order in which they randomly "land."

But, disease shares a very likely explanation too. One I won't discredit, no matter how enthusiastic the person who first found out about it was. If it is a new disease, Steven will get a new dragon disease named after him, he will deserve it. That in my opinion is way more legit than any new morph, because this discovery could better the lives of our dragons.

 

[pdragon]

Some of the blue eyes could be caused by prolonged exposure to high amounts of UV from mercury vapors and/or compact fluorescents. These bulbs can make eyes a "milky" color.

Josh

 

[KelliH]

I would consider this to be nothing more than an absence of integrity and character, nothing more.. Because he has never seen it, it doesnt exist?? Because someone else possesses something you dont, you are now trying to steal their potential thunder by BLASTING ALL OVER THE NET on here, kingsnake, bd.org and all over Facespace on several peoples pages that this is fake, they are lying or what they have is nothing more than a diseased ridden animal?? I have never ACTUALLY seen air.. does that mean it doesn't exist? I have never seen God.. does that mean He doesn't exist? What about UFO's??? I could go on and on... Blue eyes do exist, they aren't even new news. That pic of the Rankin was like 6 years old... To me Steven, and I know for a FACT that I do not stand alone, your actions regarding this topic is the perfect example of how an hole would try to stay on top.. out front and on top... People ask you if you have any blue eyes for sale, you say No, sure don't, so they buy from the next guy and you get all in your feelings and decide to bombard the net with this half-cocked theory... Thanks for showing me your true character. Let's see if now that I have posted this all of a sudden everyone is told all my stock has Mad-Cow disease or some other random non-related virus.....

He was just offering his opinion. You are overreacting bigtime.

 

[DNA Dragons]

Yeah, damaged retinas from any source beit disease, UV exposure, cancer, or physical damage (anything that restrict or damages the blood vessels inside of the eye will play a role in any animals eye color.

 

[dden]

Some of the blue eyes could be caused by prolonged exposure to high amounts of UV from mercury vapors and/or compact fluorescents. These bulbs can make eyes a "milky" color.

Josh

...or they could just be stoned. Oh wait, that's Red eyes I'm thinking of.

 

[pdragon]

Hahahahaha!

Josh

 

[pdragon]

I agree with Steve. I haven't seen any blue eyed P. vitticeps other than the ones that look damaged. Most have white colored irises. A true blue eyed vitticeps would look like this Rankins:

http://www.reptifit.nl/images/pogona/pogona_henrylawsoni/pogona_henrylawsoni_blue_eyes.jpg

Josh