Bad Guy Bruce Cowan - AKA - Nyteshade

[Rock Star Reptile]

Ok so here is the story. I purchased this http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280419 back in October. The Enchi was delivered fine. I was not home to get the snake due to being at work. But wife & son was there to get her. When they got her it went direct into quarantine like all reptiles I get(and will remain there for quite some time). Now I had a busy weekend planned and was off on a hunting trip for the weekend. So I never really checked out the reptile myself at this time. I did take a quick peek and it appeared ok. After my trip that Sunday or Monday I can't remember which day off the top of my head. Well I had a chance to really look at the snake. The snake was now in my care for only 2 or 3 days and I had now noticed it has very bad respiratory infection and its mouth was a-jar open. I had then emailed the seller. At first he seemed concerned and I had thought all should be cool with the outcome. I took the Ball to the vet and was given a dose of reality.
I was given a 90% death rate. Now to get that correct the vet said the snake has a 10% chance to live. This is how bad it was. Also on top of that she had said the reptile has some sort of jaw break probably due being force fed.
Well needless to say I was not happy about any of this. So I remember starting off kinda tame in the emails but asking for some sort of reimbursement of vet costs and or just wanting my money back and I will send back the snake after health is good. Then he tries to say the snake was healthy when he had her & he had the snake checked out while in his care. Plus he has no money he needed to pay bills. So to try to make a long long story short. I will state facts as seen in emails.
#1 My fault for not checking the snake the day of getting her.
#2 My fault for not posting this sooner my excuse.. I have a very busy life and I do hope my lack of posting this did not mess up anyone else doing business with this guy.
Now for his faults..
#1 selling me a sick snake with a broken jaw.
#2 not paying for vet bills or doing the right thing.
#3 he didn't quarantine this animal. He got it from a friend who got it from a friend after talking with him. Sketchy..
I had tried to contact him but now figured to just write this off as a learning lesson to me. The guy said at one point he will one day be a big reptile breeder and was buying racks with the money. In the end he is what he is.. I will let you to judge that. I will post all info you will need to decide how this went. He did say he will now sell elsewhere and not on Fauna(craigslist?) and he is working with a big breeder(his friend?). Now that the RI has passed I have noticed the snake is a bit Wonky and mouth is still a bit open. She is a champ. Strong little girl. She want to make it. She will not make it into my breeding plans at all with way to many problems but will end up as a good pet & reminder what not to do.
Thank you all and let the questions fly as they need to.
I will in the next few days get the emails & such up for everyone to see so please be patient with me. Thank you
Ted Adams @ RR

 

[Magic Merlin]

Sorry for the silly question but why can't she be bred when she is big enough in 2 to 3 years? RI was resolved with medication and a broke bone will heal so what is your concern? If Bruce sold you a sick snake with a broken jaw then I think he should reimburse the vet bill and that should be the end of it.

 

[Rock Star Reptile]

That would be great. But now the snake is showing some interesting signs.. kinda not all there and a bit wonky. True RI & broken jaw would not affect breeding. But the wonky behavior now has me concerned , again still in quarantine for a few more months and another vet visit.
Ted Adams

 

[BrianC]

Sorry to hear.
Hope to see the emails up soon.

 

[Lucille]

I will in the next few days get the emails & such up for everyone to see

You have obviously put some time into composing this account. I think just with a few more minutes of work you could have the emails up. I would like to see the emails, and I hope you notified the other party of this thread.

 

[edf01]

I have a few questions- sorry if some are OT for the BOI

What was the sellers Terms of Sale from the seller?

Was the snake ever force fed or was the vet just speculating what could have caused it??

How did the box arrive ( as in, any chance the jaw breaking was due to bad shipping? be it the carrier or how it was packaged?)

did the vet say how long it would take the jaw to heal for the snake to be able to eat? yes- a snake could go a bit without eating, but we are talking about a 100 gram baby snake...

Janet Kovacic

 

[chadharper]

Its weird the picture of her entire body(including head shot) is blurry bit the belly shot is in great detail. Also he has a negative rating correct? Thats what the -1 under his name means right?

 

[April Homich]

I always have to try to look at both sides. I think it was a big mistake on your part to not thoroughly examine a new animal after shipping - especially in cool weather. I can't imagine not doing this. What day did you actually receive it? I'm trying to figure out how long it was in your care before developing an RI, and I know most people would try to ship at the beginning of the week. How was it shipped? Was there a heat pack? What temps is she being kept at? I only ask all of this because I think it's within the realm of possibility that being exposed to the stress and cold temps of shipping could be the cause, especially if she seemed fine when you got her and only had problems however many days later.

I'm surprised you wouldn't notice a broken jaw. Did the vet actually x-ray it? When their jaws aren't aligned right after eating or whatever, they can look almost like they are broken, but aren't. The 90% number seems strange to me. Is that what your vet thinks the death rate from RIs is, or is it a guess adding in the broken jaw? Is this a vet that sees reptiles regularly?

 

[bpsandmore]

Its weird the picture of her entire body(including head shot) is blurry bit the belly shot is in great detail. Also he has a negative rating correct? Thats what the -1 under his name means right?

The -1 is from Rock Star Reptiles. The seller would of had a rating of 0 when he purchased the snake.

Ted when you say wonky do you mean like the spider head wobble thing or what. And I notice from the pics that the face of the animal is not clearly visible so you wouldn't of noticed the jaw alignment.

Best of luck with the snake and your dilemma!

 

[RobNJ]

The 90% number seems strange to me. Is that what your vet thinks the death rate from RIs is, or is it a guess adding in the broken jaw? Is this a vet that sees reptiles regularly?

I found this to be odd as well. Also, a precise timeline of events needs to be laid out, as it looks like this transaction took place over 2 months ago. I agree with Lucille that the few extra minutes should have been taken in the original post since the OP knew he'd have a few busy days ahead.

And to the OP, this is not to sound harsh or anything, but this guy was a fairly new registrant with no transactions to speak of selling a fairly high demand animal at roughly half the normal going price...not defending the seller at all, but all that really should have told you it was gonna be a roll of the dice as to what you were getting.

 

[Rock Star Reptile]

I will get the rest up today. Yes It has been a bit of time and that is my fault not posting this sooner. I have a life other than reptiles and had all ready chalked this up to a learning lesson. The vet had said the RI the snake has had awhile due to how bad it is. the jaw being messed up she had said could be broken or damaged due to a force feeding. No the vet did not do a x-ray of the jaw. We both figured if the RI could be fixed as bad as it was the jaw would be next if I like. The little girl eats good so I may just leave the jaw alone. She arrived on a Friday. The seller seemed in a hurry to do it so we both took that chance. She came with the heat pack and all. Due to the fact I sent the seller who has never shipped all the info he needed and sent him the link to the ship your reptiles video on shipping. I had walked him through it and for his first time he did well.
Ted Adams

 

[Rock Star Reptile]

I don't have the $300. I had to pay for bills. That's why I sold her in the first place. I have 47 cents to my name for the next month after bills. I had to sell my entire collection to catch up. I'm flat broke. She was not force fed. She ate willingly the day I got her and the following week. She had NO health problems the day I shipped her. The "RI" could have been from shipping. Idk where the "jaw damage" would have come from since she ate just fine on her own I never had to mess with her head. The only time was when I got her I opened her mouth with a lil flat piece of plastic to check for RI and mouth rot. She was fine when I got her. Fine when I had her an fine when I shipped her. You can write me a negative review on fauna If you like but I won't be back on there since I don't have any more snakes. But as I said. I have no money and no snakes.

~Nyteshade~

On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:46 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
Bruce,

So I have bad news & worse news. So I went to the reptile vet today. So not only a case of “RI” but a long bout of mouth rot that has got worse. This was all within your care. The vet seriously questioned if this snake was force fed. The vet had seen some jaw damage beyond the mouth rot.
I have all the paperwork along with receipt I can send you a copy of. I have purchased the medicine to start treating all the problems with this little girl.
Now for the worse news. This snake has a slim chance of making it through all of this according to the vet.
Not good at all.
So at this point I will be wanting to return this sick reptile to you for a full refund. IF she makes it. I will not chance shipping her until she is better. IF she makes it.
I have a copy of the vet bill and the amount we paid for her. I will want refunded.

I will hope to be hearing from you soon.

Ted@RR


From: Bruce Cowan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 7:02 PM
To: Rockstar Reptile
Subject: Re: Enchi female

Not a problem

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 9:01 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
I will be in touch.
Thanks for the understanding.
Ted

From: Bruce Cowan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 7:00 PM
To: Rockstar Reptile
Subject: Re: Enchi female

Sounds fair to me

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:58 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
Here is what I plan on doing. I don’t want to stress out this snake any more than I need to. The snake is in shed full blue. I have bumped the heat in hopes to knock out this problem. I plan on waiting after shed. Should be in 3 days ish. Then check her out again.
I know what a “yawn” is I have well over 100 snakes in my care. I have seen and treated RI in the past. The last snake that had RI not in my collection but in quarantine was over 4 years ago. It was a rescue from our Herpetological Society we got back to 100% health. Our family has been keeping reptiles for years and would know what a yawn vrs a mouth adjustment vrs open mouth breathing is.
I am not here to scam you out of money or lead you around. I just want first what’s best for the snake. Second some sort of resolution between us on what we need to do. If that involves money for a vet exam when it gets to that point.
Ted

From: Bruce Cowan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 6:39 PM
To: Rockstar Reptile
Subject: Re: Enchi female

Could you send me a video of what she is doing so I can see it? All of my snakes periodically yawn but none of them mouth breath wheeze or have discharge. I just double checked my entire collection.

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:31 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
I am sorry I may be coming off harsh. But I have purchased a sick animal from you and I want to figure out what our next steps are. Also figure out what this snake may or may not have.
Ted

From: Bruce Cowan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 6:20 PM
To: Rockstar Reptile
Subject: Re: Enchi female

No. I have ALL my animals checked regardless what I'm told. I know people lie and say they are healthy when they are not so I take great care to make sure mine are healthy. I would not buy or sell a sick snake.

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:18 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
So did she have this previously and this is why you had it checked?


From: Bruce Cowan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 6:14 PM
To: Rockstar Reptile
Subject: Re: Enchi female

Medium mouse and no my buddy who breeds checked her for the wheezing strings os saliva in her mouth and discharge from the nose. She was fine when I shipped her. She was periodically adjusting her jaw after eating. Other than that nothing more than a periodic yawn like my other ones

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:12 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
So you took the ball python into a vet checkup?
How did you checked for RI?
What did you feed her ? what was the size of food?

Ted


From: Bruce Cowan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 5:14 PM
To: Rockstar Reptile
Subject: Re: Enchi female

No she wasn't doing that with me and I fed her like 3 days before I shipped her. She had no problems when I had her. I checked for RI when I got her from my friend.

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 7:11 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hey Bruce,
So I didn’t get back to you yesterday because I was on an early morning hunting trip. But that Enchi Girl you sent me is showing signs of RI. Or something wrong with her. She has had her mouth open breathing here for the past 2 days. So were you treating for RI or something? How long have you had this snake? What did you feed it last? Give me some input please. Was the snake open mouth breathing with you and how long?
Thank you
Ted@RR

 

[Rock Star Reptile]

It starts from bottom to top

 

[Rock Star Reptile]

Now here it will get a bit confused due to we started 2 different conversations on the same subject so I will try to clear up any issues. You will see some same emails but we had going two emails at the same time.
Ted Adams

 

[Rock Star Reptile]

Are you 100% sure she has a RI or is it just yawning? I'm not trying to discount you but she was healthy when she left here. Have you taken her to the vet to find out?

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:41 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
Well at this point I have a snake with RI at least. That has come from your house on Friday. Within the 1st 24hrs I have noticed an illness. A respiratory infection takes longer than over night to happen. It came to me this way and I had noticed it and now contacting you.
I would like to be compensated for the vet costs. Then I hope this little girl gets back to health.
Ted

From: Bruce Cowan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 6:31 PM
To: Rockstar Reptile
Subject: Re: Enchi female

No. As previously stated I have my friend who is majoring in vet school at Texas A&M and has been breeding boa's/pythons for going on 7 years now look them over. I take him with me or I take them to him to look over no matter how healthy they appear. Sick or not I have him look them over for anything that might be wrong. I have him check them for mites ticks scale Rot mouth rot ibd AND RI. Just as a precaution. Not because I suspect anything.

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:24 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
So you take the animals into a vet to get them checked then. Is this what you’re saying?

From: Bruce Cowan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 6:20 PM
To: Rockstar Reptile
Subject: Re: Enchi female

No. I have ALL my animals checked regardless what I'm told. I know people lie and say they are healthy when they are not so I take great care to make sure mine are healthy. I would not buy or sell a sick snake.

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:18 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
So did she have this previously and this is why you had it checked?


From: Bruce Cowan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 6:14 PM
To: Rockstar Reptile
Subject: Re: Enchi female

Medium mouse and no my buddy who breeds checked her for the wheezing strings os saliva in her mouth and discharge from the nose. She was fine when I shipped her. She was periodically adjusting her jaw after eating. Other than that nothing more than a periodic yawn like my other ones

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:12 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
So you took the ball python into a vet checkup?
How did you checked for RI?
What did you feed her ? what was the size of food?

Ted


From: Bruce Cowan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 5:14 PM
To: Rockstar Reptile
Subject: Re: Enchi female

No she wasn't doing that with me and I fed her like 3 days before I shipped her. She had no problems when I had her. I checked for RI when I got her from my friend.

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 7:11 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hey Bruce,
So I didn’t get back to you yesterday because I was on an early morning hunting trip. But that Enchi Girl you sent me is showing signs of RI. Or something wrong with her. She has had her mouth open breathing here for the past 2 days. So were you treating for RI or something? How long have you had this snake? What did you feed it last? Give me some input please. Was the snake open mouth breathing with you and how long?
Thank you
Ted@RR

 

[Rock Star Reptile]

No. What I'm saying is the person he got it from had it in quarantine. Then he had it in quarantine for the week that he had her. Then I had her by herself in a diff room the whole time I had her as well she was healthy when I got her the whole time I had and when I shipped her. And I have all my animals checked no matter what. Even if it was straight out the egg I would have it looked over.

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:24 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
How can a snake be in quarantine for 3 months when your buddy had it for only a week?
You had previously said your buddy has snakes. Then you have this snake for 2-3 weeks in your collection from your buddy’s.
This in total is only 1 month at best actually less.
I have many snakes and NONE OF THEM ARE SICK. PERIOD.
All of my hatchlings are healthy and I have never had a need to check for RI. Which makes me concerned you were looking for this with your buddy.
So what you’re saying is that there has been no quarantine and you just sent it off before making sure of health.

From: Bruce Cowan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 6:15 PM
To: Rockstar Reptile
Subject: Re: Enchi female

She had already been quarantined for 3 months before My buddy got her for me. He had her for a week and then I had her for 2-3 and she had no problems

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:13 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
So you had this snake for only 2 or 3 weeks then sell it? That is not even long enough to Quarantine to make sure it’s healthy to sell.

From: Bruce Cowan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 5:15 PM
To: Rockstar Reptile
Subject: Re: Enchi female

Oh and I had her for like 2 or 3 weeks

~Nyteshade~

On Oct 24, 2011, at 7:11 PM, "Rockstar Reptile" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hey Bruce,
So I didn’t get back to you yesterday because I was on an early morning hunting trip. But that Enchi Girl you sent me is showing signs of RI. Or something wrong with her. She has had her mouth open breathing here for the past 2 days. So were you treating for RI or something? How long have you had this snake? What did you feed it last? Give me some input please. Was the snake open mouth breathing with you and how long?
Thank you
Ted@RR

 

[Lucille]

The vet had said the RI the snake has had awhile due to how bad it is. the jaw being messed up she had said could be broken or damaged

Please scan and post your vet receipt.

 

[Rock Star Reptile]

I will be doing that here soon.
Ted Adams

 

[Rock Star Reptile]

Here are the vet exams. They had said Extreme Mouth rot or possible broken due to being force fed. I really wish they would have wrote all they told me on this.
Ted Adams

 

[Rock Star Reptile]

After reading all of this I now remember that the snake was going in shed with all these issues. So not to stress her out I bumped the heat and waited till she shed before taking her to the vet. I was hoping the RI would knock itself out. But with no luck so I got her in right after shed.
Ted Adams