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Inquiry is usark scamming the reptile industry

Yeah, isn't that, y'know, the POINT of USARK? To be a lobbyist group that serves the reptile industry? I don't understand this entire thread, complaining about a lobby group lobbying? -_-

I know! I wish USARK had the money to do even more lobbying!! But in time I hope they do. I am sure spreading the word!!

It hurts me to even read Rodney's posts, with his spelling and grammatical errors. Either he is too lazy to write like a grownup, or he is uneducated. And by what he is saying I am assuming the latter. Not one I want representing MY interests in Washington, I can tell you that much!!
 
Ok, i read what you have posted, and have some opinions.



From what I understand- it is already ok for animal control and such- which i am sure animal control is some form of law enforcement- to look into your house if they have a reason- they dont need USARk to be able to do that. I may not be keen on all the actual specs, but if they feel they have a cause to check out your place, they will knock on your door. The first knock on the door- you do not have to let them in w/o a search warrent, however, they will be back with a search warrent, and then you have to let them in.

Its illegal to keep venomous snakes in Pottstown. If word got out I had a copperhead ( Which I dont- just using an example) and the police or animal control wants to check out my house- they eventually will have a warrent to check my house. This is already in act, not something USARK is suddenly pushing. The cops and such can't just barge in- pushing you aside right away, but if they want and feel they have the proof to search your home, they will get that warrent and see for themselves. And if you are breaking the law- if i had a copperhead in my house- and they find it, its gonna be taken because it is not legal and i was breaking the law.


As far as some of the aspects in USARKS legislation-
If someone has a retic across the street and was not housing it in a safe secure cage- as much as i love snakes- i really wouldnt want them to own it. People who do not house th esnakes properly are not respecting the animal nor other people. I am sure if I had my boa still and kept it with just a blanket tied over its too small cage that it obvioulsy could get out of, I am sure my neighboors, who have a small dog- wouldnt want me to have it. I have a right to keep my snakes, but I also have the RESPONSIBILITY to ensure its safety as well as the neighbors small pets. My neighbors have the right to not have their dog eaten by my snake- and having escape proof enclosures ensures this.

I dont see anything wrong with the laws in PA, but given a choice of total ban or legislation demanding proper caging on the snakes- i'd pick the proper caging. I think everybody NEEDS to have proper caging for big snakes, bps, corn snakes, hamsters or anything. Heck- even dogs. If your dog has to be crated when you are out- it better be safe for that dog. Or if you have a dog that could be aggressive to strangers- that fence better hold him in.

I see your point about where will it stop if we allow new legislation- however, certain events have pushed this wanted ban on effect- and i don't see how refusing to change will not be a better option then letting our state representatives just go with a ban instead of letting them know of other options.


How USARK spends their money-

if they are having to go somewhere not local to help defend our rights, I have no problem with their hotel rooms being comped. My mom goes away on business trips- and she dont have to pay for her room. Why should they? About th elegislation- already said what i feel- i'd rather safe protocals were in place instead of just bans, but its gonna cost money to do this. Isn't that what the donations are for? for them to help us find another way other then outright ban?




Yeah, so far so good- but what if they get the pressure from what is happening in other states to do something more about it? Would you prefer USARK helps the state of PA to put in some legislation about owning them snakes or would you prefer USARK do nothing, and they just get outright banned? Things are changing, and to think nothing is going to change in Pa ever is pretty blind- I am not gonna burry my head in the sand b/c of how things are in PA currently and be blinded by a possible future.

i think i already pointed out that the cops have the right to come in your house with probable cause and thats for just about everything including snakes the problem i have with it is all the other laws in the model legislation. namely exposure, unsafe contact, and responsible handling practices. not that im opposed to people being responsible, its how vague the laws are and how and who will be interpreting them in a court of law.

and the main reason i say usark is selling out the venomous, big snake, and croc people is because this model legislation only deals with them.

lets face it a 4500 gram ball python could kill a baby if it got out of its cage and into the babies crib and when that happens what do you think will happen as a result.

as for the laws in general. laws never stop idiots from breaking them. keep that in mind. so these laws will make no one any safer from the stupidity of other. it will only allow the state to profit when an accident happens, by having extra laws on the books to sue you. these law wont protect the individual(s) that get injured in any way because they already have the right to sue you for their injuries.

the problem i have with the $12,000 on hotels andrews at every big show, with a crew of people, doing auctions and raising more money. usark could have a local chapter of people, that would already be going to the show to begin with, doing a lot of that work


the thing i dont think people realize is that usark has convinced you that their model legislation is the only answer and you all are ready to sing off on it whenever they tell you to.

keep in mind usark makes money, and as long as there potential bans and model legislation to write everyone at usark has a job.


i dont know if any of you listen to the urban jungle radio show when tom crutchfield told everyone that the reptile industry is over and but keep fighting and keep giving usark your money.

that was highly irresponsible of him. he should not be sending that kind of message to the industry. telling people that the battle is lost is not a good way to get people to come out a fight
 
Fine I will respond. Who gets to define safe and unsafe? Well I don't want it to be Wilkins or Rodney or the like. At this point I am more of an authority on safe and unsafe handling of reptiles than probably anyone in my legislature. So if they question me, they better bring some real experts.

If I was getting sued, why would there be a prosecutor? I think your knowledge of our criminal and civil court systems are lacking.

So you want to fight these in a court room? would that be Civil or criminal court?

I agree one hundred percent. We should have someone testifying on our behalf on these hearings:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Oh wait. Isn't that what UARK already does?
http://www.usark.org/uploads/CA Fish&Game Testimony.pdf
http://www.usark.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...t-on-industry-killing-fws-rule-129775853.html

thats the thing if you get questioned it wont be by experts since as andrew wyatts model legislation states the authorities that come into your house cant identify your animals and must take them to someone who can.
 
The thing is if they think you have a copperhead - even if you don't - and they are granted access, their actions may not be limited to taking a copperhead. In all likelihood, if you have a northern watersnake or an eastern milksnake (or anything else with a passing likeness to a copperhead), your animals would be confiscated.....note that I didn't say "the copperhead" or "the snake that looked like a copperhead". There have been numerous examples over the years where law enforcement comes in for one reason & ends up taking all the animals PENDING INVESTIGATION. Now, odds are that they don't have the facilities or knowledge to properly care for them - and they may, or may not, get them placed with an able keeper - but are they liable for monetary losses you suffer as a result of their action?


This is an interesting one...I wonder how many legal types would consider keeping snakes a right. I understand where you are coming from...but I don't think the statement holds any more water than Rodney's assertion that he has the right to use vulgar language on this site.


Law is a growing thing. The whole concept of legislation for public safety has gotten way out of hand; and, as a nation, we are grossly over-legislated...and once there is existing legislation, it seems like such a small thing to just tweak it to fix this or that problem. Of course, as a people (this is not reptile specific), we aren't smart enough to regulate ourselves.....so it can be argued that somebody has to do it

keep in mind if you get raided as a result of you not letting them in the first time or two and they have to get a warrant their probably going to take more than just your snakes. money guns anything that they think they can use against you or use to have more charges against you.

plus if you really do have a copperhead and your not supposed now you get hit with all the model legislation violations
 
:shrug01: How do we compare guns to snakes. it takes an action from a person to pull a trigger to make a gun fire. A snake is always wild even if they are captive bred and raised they are all unpredictable. no one can predict a snake bite they are random at best.

Although I believe people have the right to own reptiles I think when you get into venemous there should be a way to verify the peson has a clue to what they are doing with husbandry and the proper safe handeling. I do not think you should be able to walk into a public show and have no credentials and purchase a cobra for $150. I ask in this case who is held responsable for putting not only the individual that bought the snake but the general public?

i have a problem with this namely that its someone elses responsibility to protect people from themselves. if someone buys a cobra and dosnt have a clue about it why should anybody but the individual that bought it be held responsible. no one put a gun to their head and said by a cobra. its of their on volition to make a bad decision. if their buying a cobra they at least know it can kill them and that is enough information for someone to make an educated decision. its that nanny state idealism that thinks the government needs to step in and protect individuals from their own stupidity, when you have that society as a whole will continue to lose more and more of their rights in the name public safety.

keep in mind the only way a person is going to be qualified to keep and handle venomous reptiles is through experience.
 
Other than this you are repeating yourself from the 10 page back and forth you had before your temporary ban. No point in restarting that despite your attempting to do so here on the BOI.
So what do you expect them to do, sleep in their car(s) or travel on their own dime? The reason they have been so effective is because of the amount spent on lobbying.
Try looking up your buddy Terry Wilkin's group and where donations he received went. Or try doing the same think USARK has done on your dime.
This is totally frivolous and asinine. It's no secret you despise the ARK Rodney and you have a personal issue with it. You are no friend to the Reptile Nation and you make that evident at every post.
Perhaps I should start a BOI thread myself.
I'll call it
"Has Rodney Boalich' smear campaign taken advantage of Fauna privileges?"

feel free. i support your right to speak your mind
 
I once had no clue who Wilkins was.
Some dude told me that I am clueless for supporting Andrew and USARK.
He stated Terry Wilkins has done more for this hobby than Andrew ever did.
So I did a little research.

The results showed quite the opposite to me.
I am proud to have Andrew and the Barkers and other members of the community representing me in front of legislators and committees.

Terry and his group? Not so much.

I would probably give more weight to the OPs statements. If they wre coherently written. And if they did not reak of Terry Wilkins.

Come to think of it..... Where is Terry Wilkins? What has he done for our industry? :shrug01::shrug01::shrug01:

terry has stop every ban in ohio. hes had his place broke into and vandalized more than once by AR people. the state has tred to sue him tried to shut him down tried to pass a constrictor ban on anything that gets over 3ft. and hes fought and stopped all of it.

reason you know so little about terry is because he dosnt go parading around the internet and every show on the donators dime.
 
Rodney, please take some of the money you're saving by not supporting a good cause in USARK and pay for a language tutor. It would help everyone.

Also, I can't remember anyone being raided by the police that didn't have something sketchy going on. I'm sure it's happened before, but I'd bet it's very much the exception to the rule. There isn't a big conspiracy and the police don't sit around trying to figure out how to screw over the general public. If Wilkins got raided, I'm gonna put money that they had a good reason to do it. It's normally only the criminals that cry about the cops.

Chris
 
So, as someone who lives in NC, and keeps or has kept Burms, Retics, Venomous, and Crocodilians, I thought I should at least say something here. Early on, in one of your first posts, you consider the law that we have in our state (the "model legislation") as a sort of ban. When, in all reality, the law we have here (IMO) didn't force us to do anything we shouldn't already have been doing. Locks on cages? Having them labeled? Secure transport? These were all things responsible owners were already doing. So, to have a law on the books that requires it, instead of just outright BANNING everything...not too big of a deal to me.

I understand the concern about random law enforcement officers going through your things, and that's why I and others I associate with in this hobby have made a point to reach out to our local Law enforcement agencies, and try to establish a positive relationship with them. They've never ONCE come down my driveway to do an inspection, or try and confiscate animals, but what they have done (and continue to do), is call us every time they have a snake related "issue" that they get a 911 call on. Several times a year, I go and remove a black rat snake from someones yard, because some hysterical person has called 911 over the "giant poisonous snake on the porch". Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that my situation is the norm, or that everyone will have that same relationship. My point is, I took it upon myself to reach out to our local cops, animal control, and fire departments, and now I'm known as someone to call if they have a reptile related issue they don't know what to do with.

Also, Don't get me wrong, I understand your issues with the potential misuse of some of the verbiage of the law. But, as others have pointed out, the "model legislation" is something to be used instead of an outright ban. I personally am quite alright with "having" to put locks on my Tree Vipers, and have appropriately mandated caging for the crocodilians I have, especially since that means that I still get to keep them.

As far as the $12,000 spent on hotel rooms...do the math. There are reptile shows almost every weekend of the year, sometimes multiple shows on the same weekend, that USARK may want to have a presence at. So, $12,000 divided by 52 weekends is $230 a weekend. If they've got multiple shows in a weekend, possibly with people staying at each show...for 2, maybe 3 nights... $230 a weekend really isn't that much. I know when we do shows, we stay at least Friday and Saturday nights, and a lot of times in the bigger cities, that may still cost us $180. If you think that's an abuse of funds, and that Andrew or whatever other representative should sleep in their cars or BEHIND the USARK table, on the floor. Great. Happy for you. Just make sure you don't contribute any money to them, and then you don't have to worry about an abuse of your money.

Oh, and the $150,000 spent lobbying...any idea what other industries are spending? Assuming you're implying that $150,000 is some ridiculous amount, spend a little time researching, and you'll realize how LITTLE $150,000 really is in the Lobbying world. The NRA in 2010 spent over $2.6 Million in lobbying alone. The National CHICKEN COUNCIL spent $330,000. That's right, the Chicken Council spent more money than USARK on lobbying.... And the HSUS isn't running a national campaign against Chickens supposedly turned lose and wreaking havoc on the everglades. Just my thoughts on it all.


thats great if model legislation is working for you in (YOUR) state and was WRITING BY PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN YOUR STATE). thats great im glad its working for you in (YOUR) state that that had a possible ban.
one of my biggest problems is usark has model ready to offer up in MY state, and they didnt run it by anyone here. the just wrote it up for us. andrew wyatt is not god of the reptile industry. he dosnt has no right writing legislation for other peoples states without going to that state and first discussing it with the people it will affect.

now as for you working with local law enforcement thats great too but you dont need model legislation to do that.

im already working with my local spca and county commission on reptile related issues. when they get a call about a snake or one comes into the spca i get called to deal with it and i didnt need model legislation in my state to do an of that.
 
Oh--i don't see 100,000+ being a problem for lobbying. far as I'm concerned, USARK should be all about lobbying ;)

heres the problem with the lobbying thing. if we as an industry want to go down that road of buying votes we need to step back and take a look at the reality of it.

our biggest enemy is hsus. they brought in around $100,000,000 in 2010.

usark brought in around $300,000 in 2010

wanye pacelle the ceo of hsus makes around $250,000 a year.

so you see the ceo of our biggest enemy makes almost as much money as usark grossed in a year.

can you see the problem here

lobbying i.e. buying votes is a lost cause for us.

if the court put out their scale and say load it up and and who ever piles up the most money wins we dont have a chance. usark brings in less then 4% of what hsus dose. we just cant compete in the lobbying arena with them.

usark spent a little over $24,000 on airlines and hotels and spent less then $3,000 on advertising.

but they spent almost $12,000 on t shirt and promo items, which im guessing are the thing they give to donators.

and they spent over $17,000 on show expenses.

so for usark to fly to shows get a hotel and set up at shows they spent around $35,000. thats over 10% of what they took in and you people really think thats going to help us be able to keep our reptiles

first of all even with all the negative things ive said about usark i still think a reptile organization thats fighting for the industry,( whether or not i agree with how they are doing it) shouldnt have to pay for their tables. it wouldnt kill show promoters to give up a table or two for free.
 
I rarely post here and have only one thing to say to "Rodney", if indeed that is your real name.

We live in a free society and if you believe you can better serve the reptile community than USARK....please feel free to do so.

My support has and will continue to go to USARK as they are the ONLY entity that has done anything to affect legislation in a positive way for the reptile industry. I was fortunate enough to know Andrew Wyatt when USARK first began when there was NO money, yet he persevered.

If you think you can do better....go right ahead!

Denny Rimes
why wouldnt rodney be my real name
 
first of all even with all the negative things ive said about usark i still think a reptile organization thats fighting for the industry,( whether or not i agree with how they are doing it) shouldnt have to pay for their tables. it wouldnt kill show promoters to give up a table or two for free.
Something we can probably all agree on...finally.
 
Rodney, you keep stating over and over (and over and over) that USARK is trying to "push" these regulations everywhere...yet we know that this is completely false. These models are meant for use ONLY as a compromise, when other venues are exhausted. A way of avoiding a total and complete ban. You say you don't like to compromise? It sounds to me as if you are more stuck on just fighting the war than worrying about keeping these animals. As I have said before - I would much rather make a compromise than not be able to keep these animals at all. :shrug01:

a few months ago usark sent out an email that started this whole thing with me being concerned with what they were doing. i was worried before but after that email i really was. you mite remember it. it said there were 6 or 7 states looking for push a ban and not to worry because usark had model legislation ready to offer up for our states. and thats pretty much all it said. it didnt offer up and information about the bans who were proposing them., what the bans included, or if any of them where in subcommittees or or if there were going to be any hearings ( that we could go to). it really told us nothing useful, just enough to get us good and scared before be got to the end of the email where it conveniently reminded us to donate to usark.
 
Gee Rodney, however in the world is a rational conversation being held here without the use of vulgarity and profanity? Do you seriously believe that peppering the posts with such talk would make it a BETTER conversation? :rolleyes:

And for the record, no, private entities, both personally and as a business, are NOT bound by the First Amendment nor any other boundaries or freedoms itemized in the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. Those documents were written and designed as controls to bind the GOVERNMENT, not the PEOPLE. If you are going to be making such claims, please do some research beforehand about what you are saying.

Seriously, if you have any intentions whatsoever to act as a representative of this industry, PLEASE take the time to understand just what the heck you are talking about so you don't make it appear that this industry has voluntarily chosen a fool as a representative to speak before our legislators. And I strongly suggest that you not take the position that you have a right to use vulgarity and profanity in your discussions with legislative bodies neither. I'm sure that will certainly gain us valuable support points with our legislators. NOT!

originally said rights were for the government only correct and then they were extended to individuals, thats why people( individuals) can argue things like their 1st amendment rights in a court of law, i forget what year it was but please correct me if im wrong.
 
Absolutely and entirely wrong.

If you dont have a Conditional species permit you cannot own any of those animals period. You would have had that permit BEFORE they switched from ROCS to Conditional species, or else you cant get it. You need a class 3 to sell any reptile in Florida. Conditional species are not allowed to be sold in the state of Florida. Even if both people have the proper permits, they are not allowed to be sold. No ifs, ands, or buts. Maybe u should look into it before you open your mouth.

Honestly I havent really read anything u typed because u type like a three year old. Perhaps you should quit worrying about USARK, and go back to grammar class.

dude if you dont believe me about the laws in FL call micheal cole and ask him. i was just on the phone with him for an hour yesterday and the FL legislation came up and hes one of the people that help write it.
 
Okay, okay you got me. I guess I only speak for 79,995...or so. :rofl:

So I see this thread is looking alot like the other. Big shock!
There have been some good points brought up though. $100,000+ lobbing is nothing, and it is their job. $12,000 in hotels is nothing. I doubt Andrew stays at every hotel by himself. These expenses are for USARK and their employees, not Andrew.

I am still wondering if you have ever actually had a transaction with USARK. I am guessing not which further shows my and many others opinion that this is a bad attempt to smear someone's name.

I think you're getting somewhere though Rodney. You have picked up 2 or 3 whole people who feel the same way you do. Maybe, when you start the 200th thread on all this you will have some fans. That's a BIG maybe though...

thank you for adding to the discussion.
 
I know! I wish USARK had the money to do even more lobbying!! But in time I hope they do. I am sure spreading the word!!

It hurts me to even read Rodney's posts, with his spelling and grammatical errors. Either he is too lazy to write like a grownup, or he is uneducated. And by what he is saying I am assuming the latter. Not one I want representing MY interests in Washington, I can tell you that much!!

until usak is bring is as much money as hsus it cant stand with them in that game. its a lost cause and a wast of money
 
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