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Inquiry is usark scamming the reptile industry

yeah be more like rodney. He makes a point and he argues it. Then we show him the errors in his arguement. Then he picks another point and argues that instead. Then we show him the errors in that arguement and he pics a third point and so on and so forth. Somewhere along the line he comes back again to the first point.

honestly what points have you other than stating your opinion. like regulation is better than a ban. thats an opinion. or usark is good. thats an opinion.

heres a question do you think its a good idea for usark to be spending 10% of the money they bringing in to fly around the country staying in hotels and going to snake shows . and if so how is that helping the fight
 
honestly what points have you other than stating your opinion. like regulation is better than a ban. thats an opinion. or usark is good. thats an opinion.

heres a question do you think its a good idea for usark to be spending 10% of the money they bringing in to fly around the country staying in hotels and going to snake shows . and if so how is that helping the fight

thats it? 10%!!!

10% to spread our cause and get more support is not that bad at all. Getting support is half the battle. So spending 10% to get 50% of the job done doesnt seem so bad to me at all
 
whether i agree with it or not at least its wrote out well. you can own any of those animals listed if you get your class 3 dealers license. you can bred sell trade to other people within your state if they also have theres. you can by a retic from me and i can ship it to you if you have your class three license. trust me. if you dont believe me look into it

You are wrong on this one. I attached a copy of my class three permit. I blacked out my addresses but everything else is there. At the bottom under "LICENSEE AUTHORIZATIONS" it says " CLASS 3 AMPHIBIANS & CLASS 3 REPTILES EXCEPT VENOMOUS REPTILES AND ROC." That's what you get with the $50 permit. It means I can sell/exhibit reptiles and amphibians (except venomous and ROC) in FL, that's it. I guarantee Michael never said that the $50 permit lets you keep or sell ROC. I've talked to him at length about what is involved in getting a permit to keep burms so I know he's well aware of what's involved.
 

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You are wrong on this one. I attached a copy of my class three permit. I blacked out my addresses but everything else is there. At the bottom under "LICENSEE AUTHORIZATIONS" it says " CLASS 3 AMPHIBIANS & CLASS 3 REPTILES EXCEPT VENOMOUS REPTILES AND ROC." That's what you get with the $50 permit. It means I can sell/exhibit reptiles and amphibians (except venomous and ROC) in FL, that's it. I guarantee Michael never said that the $50 permit lets you keep or sell ROC. I've talked to him at length about what is involved in getting a permit to keep burms so I know he's well aware of what's involved.

ill have to talk to him about it. i just talked to him yesterday. it was my understanding that a class three dealers license was needed to buy sell trade
 
ill have to talk to him about it. i just talked to him yesterday. it was my understanding that a class three dealers license was needed to buy sell trade

for class 3 reptiles. Large constrictors and monitors defined as conditional species are not class 3 species. The are conditional species. God ur :censored: dense.
 
i was just looking through some other thread trying to find something. i dont pay much attention to names but i just realize as i looked through the other threads. its all the same people for the most part. its all of you. im not talking to reptile people im talking to forum junkies. and you all say the same things. nothing get talked about the way it should be because you all ruin it. im trying to talk about something that is serious. and i cant. you people always keep it off topic and get people mad and fighting about nothing.

what if im right about usark
what if we lose are animals. will you even care.

i just looked through 4 or 5 other thread for something and the names are almost identical for whos posting. you are posting in every thread. why what do any of you have to gain by doing what your doing
 
ill have to talk to him about it. i just talked to him yesterday. it was my understanding that a class three dealers license was needed to buy sell trade

You need a class three permit to sell or exhibit any reptile or amphibian in the State of Florida. Even if its a single cornsnake and even if you are just coming here from out of state for a show. If you want to sell ROC, you need the permit for ROC and the class 3 permit. Right now the only way to get a permit for ROC in FL is if you can show commercial activity (getting the permit so you can sell them to customers outside of FL). In other words, you have to have the class 3 permit to apply for the ROC permit.

Hope this helps,
Shelly
 
i know what your saying. i was just pointing out to everyone if they want to say anything to me in a vulgar manner to feel free to do so on my facebook page since the 1st amendment isnt supported here like its is by our government and or facebook. thats all i was saying. and to think i was still able to understand what you were saying even with your typo in government and misspelling of amendment

You think facebook supports your first ammendment rights? You STILL do not hav a clue. Go ahead and curse all you want on your facebook page. Let me know how long it stays up after someone reports it or facebook finds it.
honestly what points have you other than stating your opinion. like regulation is better than a ban. thats an opinion. or usark is good. thats an opinion.
Fine. Rodney is right everyone. Lets just ban everything. Forget trying to appeal by going to hearings like USARK has been doing. Forget trying to educate like USARK has been doing. forget trying to offer up legislation written by reptile people like USARK is doing. Just ban everything.
heres a question do you think its a good idea for usark to be spending 10% of the money they bringing in to fly around the country staying in hotels and going to snake shows . and if so how is that helping the fight
it is helping the fight by educating people and uniting the people.
i was just looking through some other thread trying to find something. i dont pay much attention to names but i just realize as i looked through the other threads. its all the same people for the most part. its all of you. im not talking to reptile people im talking to forum junkies. and you all say the same things. nothing get talked about the way it should be because you all ruin it. im trying to talk about something that is serious. and i cant. you people always keep it off topic and get people mad and fighting about nothing.
so your idea of discussion is? Let me guess. you say something and we all agree to whatever drivel you are saying and we sing kumbaya. I am a forum junky who owns reptiles and you are a USARK hater who can't offer up any other way of dealing with this.
 
this thread is really not accomplishing anything. there are people who agree with what usark stands for and does, and there are those that dont.
this is america, nobody should be required to buy licenses to keep anything. we have personal responsibility and our own minds to determine whether or not we chose to keep whatever we want. government should not mandate whether i want to keep a caiman croc, a retic, a kingsnake, a bark scorpion or anything else (obviously unless the native land from which the particular animals hails from deems it illegal to import it out).
its all about government control and intimidation.
 
this thread is really not accomplishing anything. there are people who agree with what usark stands for and does, and there are those that dont.
this is america, nobody should be required to buy licenses to keep anything. we have personal responsibility and our own minds to determine whether or not we chose to keep whatever we want. government should not mandate whether i want to keep a caiman croc, a retic, a kingsnake, a bark scorpion or anything else (obviously unless the native land from which the particular animals hails from deems it illegal to import it out).
its all about government control and intimidation.

:iagree: Well said.
 
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272266 - USARK was involved. What did your group and Terry do?

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265936 - There was a board meeting that was open to the public. Did you make your opinions known at this meeting?

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287129 - Here is USARK getting involved in OHIO making sure they don't ban reptiles. But when I go to your organization's website, I see Terry claiming that USARK is trying to get these same animals banned. It seems what USARK is actually doing and what your precious terry is claiming they are doing are two completely different things.
 
Rodney, if you don't like USARK, don't give them money. It is that simple. I say the same about abortion. If you are against it, don't have one. (Not trying to have an abortion argument here) You state:

what if im right about usark
what if we lose are animals. will you even care.

Can I ask why USARK would try to get rid of an industry that they themselves are a part of? What benefit would they gain by encouraging bans on reptiles when they own said reptiles also?

i just looked through 4 or 5 other thread for something and the names are almost identical for whos posting. you are posting in every thread. why what do any of you have to gain by doing what your doing

Also, I rarely EVER post on fauna, so I am not one of those names that you have seen on your other threads. I didn't even know you had other threads on this.

In 2010, the HSUS received almost 250 billion dollars in donations, located here: http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/financials/2010-form-990.pdf

I want to point this out because HSUS does a great job with passing legislation and they are constantly trying to BAN the reptile industry. They do not want us to own snakes or anything exotic. However, this is not a discussion on the HSUS, it is a discussion on USARK. So, why is this HSUS financial record of importance? It is of importance for the mere fact that the volume of cash flow going into it is a massive amount. With this massive amount of influx of cash, HSUS can have the government eating out of their hands and many times they do.


Unfortunately, the reptile industry is very small in comparison to other industries and to other hobbies. We don't have the pull that HSUS does. We don't have the money that HSUS does. We don't have the lobbying power that HSUS does. What we have is USARK and the sad amount of money donated to this.

Let's look at USARK a little closer on the financial side. Over the entire year, people donated a whopping $303,078. Compared to HSUS of $250 billion? 300k is pocket change. Can you imagine what USARK could do with $250 billion? Can you imagine what kind of pull we would have if we had that kind of money going into USARK?

Let's move further into USARK's financial status, shall we?
Sales Expense
Advertising - 2,842
Airlines -11,400
Car Maintenance - 0
Car Rental - 1,785
Consultant - 9,615
Lobbyist Fees - 150,802
Gasoline - 1,305
Hotel - 12,977
Meals - 3,503
Parking / Tolls - 492
Flyers & Hand Outs - 2,478
Show Expense - 17,270
T-Shirts & Promo Items - 11,748
Taxi / Shuttle / Metro - 849

I know you mentioned the low costs of advertising. Yes, that is low. I agree here. However, let's see the real costs of advertising because isn't reptile shows advertising? Aren't t-shirts, advertising? Aren't flyers and handouts, advertising? Our new advertising number is $34,338. 10% of the money donated is going to advertising, while half is going to lobbying (which is why we send them money).

Now that I actually see how little USARK is getting, I am amazed that they have stopped so many bans. The little, itty, bitty, lobbying group with no income is going against the HSUS giant and as a result, we have to compromise. I do hate the compromise. I really do. I can't stand it. However, I do understand that in order for me to enjoy my hobby, I have to make sure people feel safe. If the majority of people do not feel safe, we lose.

I know you are against the lesser of 2 evils concept but doesn't this apply in all aspects of the political world? Who really would have truly wanted McCain or Obama into the White House? Many people I know wished another person could of had a decent chance, but they didn't choose anyone from another party because they had to pick between the lesser of 2 evils.

It sucks. Yes, it does. You may not like some of the legislation that has been put in place. You may not agree with the way USARK tries to handle the threat of banning. You can create your own lobbying group to go against the government and try to get no laws regulating exotics. However, the reality is, will we ever have the power to beat HSUS fully. Will we never have the money in our industry and hobby to shut HSUS up? Money is power in the lobbying world and our industry just doesn't have the money to not compromise.

Star
 
Rodney, if you don't like USARK, don't give them money. It is that simple. I say the same about abortion. If you are against it, don't have one. (Not trying to have an abortion argument here) You state:



Can I ask why USARK would try to get rid of an industry that they themselves are a part of? What benefit would they gain by encouraging bans on reptiles when they own said reptiles also?



Also, I rarely EVER post on fauna, so I am not one of those names that you have seen on your other threads. I didn't even know you had other threads on this.

In 2010, the HSUS received almost 250 billion dollars in donations, located here: http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/financials/2010-form-990.pdf

I want to point this out because HSUS does a great job with passing legislation and they are constantly trying to BAN the reptile industry. They do not want us to own snakes or anything exotic. However, this is not a discussion on the HSUS, it is a discussion on USARK. So, why is this HSUS financial record of importance? It is of importance for the mere fact that the volume of cash flow going into it is a massive amount. With this massive amount of influx of cash, HSUS can have the government eating out of their hands and many times they do.


Unfortunately, the reptile industry is very small in comparison to other industries and to other hobbies. We don't have the pull that HSUS does. We don't have the money that HSUS does. We don't have the lobbying power that HSUS does. What we have is USARK and the sad amount of money donated to this.

Let's look at USARK a little closer on the financial side. Over the entire year, people donated a whopping $303,078. Compared to HSUS of $250 billion? 300k is pocket change. Can you imagine what USARK could do with $250 billion? Can you imagine what kind of pull we would have if we had that kind of money going into USARK?

Let's move further into USARK's financial status, shall we?
Sales Expense
Advertising - 2,842
Airlines -11,400
Car Maintenance - 0
Car Rental - 1,785
Consultant - 9,615
Lobbyist Fees - 150,802
Gasoline - 1,305
Hotel - 12,977
Meals - 3,503
Parking / Tolls - 492
Flyers & Hand Outs - 2,478
Show Expense - 17,270
T-Shirts & Promo Items - 11,748
Taxi / Shuttle / Metro - 849

I know you mentioned the low costs of advertising. Yes, that is low. I agree here. However, let's see the real costs of advertising because isn't reptile shows advertising? Aren't t-shirts, advertising? Aren't flyers and handouts, advertising? Our new advertising number is $34,338. 10% of the money donated is going to advertising, while half is going to lobbying (which is why we send them money).

Now that I actually see how little USARK is getting, I am amazed that they have stopped so many bans. The little, itty, bitty, lobbying group with no income is going against the HSUS giant and as a result, we have to compromise. I do hate the compromise. I really do. I can't stand it. However, I do understand that in order for me to enjoy my hobby, I have to make sure people feel safe. If the majority of people do not feel safe, we lose.

I know you are against the lesser of 2 evils concept but doesn't this apply in all aspects of the political world? Who really would have truly wanted McCain or Obama into the White House? Many people I know wished another person could of had a decent chance, but they didn't choose anyone from another party because they had to pick between the lesser of 2 evils.

It sucks. Yes, it does. You may not like some of the legislation that has been put in place. You may not agree with the way USARK tries to handle the threat of banning. You can create your own lobbying group to go against the government and try to get no laws regulating exotics. However, the reality is, will we ever have the power to beat HSUS fully. Will we never have the money in our industry and hobby to shut HSUS up? Money is power in the lobbying world and our industry just doesn't have the money to not compromise.

Star

its not about money. to really confront these issues we need a reptile organization set up in every state to fight on the local level. i really think people are putting too much faith in usark. they cant fight all of it they cant be everywhere at all times. i saw a thread that said usark what about CT. was usark in CT to help out when they needed to be. but if Ct had its own local organization to come out and fight and more importantly know how to fight they wouldnt need to rely on usark so much.

thats whats so important about terry. he knows how to fight these bans. hes been doing so for 20 or 30 years.
 
How is it not about money? I am always broke so I can't afford to miss work and go lobby my local government but if I had donations and could afford to take the time off work, possibly lose my job, and find the money to get a hotel, the gas, and food, then I could lobby my local government. I will agree that USARK is quite small and they can't be everywhere at once. That is true; however, this is because they lack the funds to have more people lobbying. It takes money to do everything. We need a large organization to fight the HSUS and PETA giants. However, a bunch of small organizations working together wouldn't be a bad concept and wouldn't spread 1 organization too thin. Then again, we need the money to institute all these small organizations.

Everything revolves around money.

Star
 
17,270 on show expenses?

Just for the record can we get a link or source of information on that, since it is the BOI and all.

But thats just pitiful. Show expenses are the 2nd highest thing after u break down the advertising into its sub-expenses. Do promoters not realize that if people cant own, sell or exhibit these animals that theres no reason for people to go to a show?
 
17,270 on show expenses?

Just for the record can we get a link or source of information on that, since it is the BOI and all.

But thats just pitiful. Show expenses are the 2nd highest thing after u break down the advertising into its sub-expenses. Do promoters not realize that if people cant own, sell or exhibit these animals that theres no reason for people to go to a show?

http://usark.org/uploads/USARK ...l Report.pdf
 
17,270 on show expenses?

Just for the record can we get a link or source of information on that, since it is the BOI and all.

But thats just pitiful. Show expenses are the 2nd highest thing after u break down the advertising into its sub-expenses. Do promoters not realize that if people cant own, sell or exhibit these animals that theres no reason for people to go to a show?

http://usark.org/uploads/USARK ...l Report.pdf This is the link that Rodney posted on a previous post to indicate USARK's financial status.

Star
 
heres a question do you think its a good idea for usark to be spending 10% of the money they bringing in to fly around the country staying in hotels and going to snake shows . and if so how is that helping the fight

Soooo....if you don't think that USARK should be gaining supporters for the reptile industry at "snake shows", where one would assume that most of the people there actually LIKE snakes...then where would YOU suggest they go? I mean really, if gaining more and more public support for the reptile industry isn't "helping the fight", what would you suggest would be more helpful?

They also use these "snake shows" to educate people. People who actually like reptiles are much more inclined to be open to education about these proposed bans and why they should be stopped...education is the key to clearing away the ignorance that leads to these bans. Where would be a better and more logical place to do this??

Education...logic...I know these aren't your strong suits Rodney...but this is what is needed.
 
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