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Bad Guy pendragon_j Jonathan Hammond

JHMills

JHMills

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I purchased a group of ball pythons from Jonathan Hammond. When they arrived all had mites, and the male had a chewn off tail, scale issues (that appear to be bite marks), and a kink. He admitted to knowing about the tail and said a rat had gotten him when he was younger. I had no knowledge of this before purchasing. He also stated that this male is a proven breeder. What type of breeder breeds animals with deformities? He is not willing to do a partial refund on the male as "I bought them as a group and I can send them back as a group". His only offer is a refund on the group for purchase price alone, and I must pay for shipping back to him. He claims that I must pay shipping this time since he agreed to pay shipping to me. Had I known of the issues these snakes have, I would not have purchased in the first place.

Shady seller...beware!
 
What Jennifer is not saying is that I spoke to them the day of shipment and they said all was fine and they looked good except for the tail issue. It didn't seem like they had a big problem with it at that time. Over a week later a got a pm about a kink with a pic that didn't look like a kink to me. I posted it online and asked a few people, including a vet, and they all said it looking like swelling above the vent and was normal. I asked for more pics and got a video, which I also showed. The consensus was the same. Even after all this I said I would refund their purchase price but I wanted the entire group back. I sold a breeder pied and a lovely breeder sized pied female and 2 het for pieds for 2500. There was no way I would break up the group at that kind of price. Once I told them this, that is when they suddenly had mites. No mention of mites until then. She is hoping I would take 1000 for the pied female and give them 1500 back, I told them no. I would either take the whole group or none. They asked if I would pay for a vet and I told them no, I already offered a refund. They asked for me to pay the purchase amount and shipping both ways, I told them no ( I had already paid for shipping to them) Then they showed me a post where they gave none of this information and asked again, I told them no but I still offered to take the group back and refund their money. After all this they put up this post on the BOI. Now, I don't know if they have already bred the pieds and now don't need the male. I don't know if it is buyers remorse. I do know that I will not separate the group so they can cherry pick the best and give me what they don't want. I feel I have been more than reasonable to this point.
Beware this buyer!!!!
and consider my offer for a refund off.
 
I would be happy with what Jonathon has offered. Even more impressed that he ate the shipping to send to a buyer but of course that be added into the buying price. Who knows. With a significant amount like that he is STILL offering full refund or FULL return of the group. If they have mites and not acceptable. Pay the shipping back to get your 2500 back. I think its a fair return sick or not sick. WE cant get away from shipping costs. But what Jonathon is offering is fair. Now as far as animals with mites and kinks...provide proof. Pics or whatever.
 
Pics of the male pied with alleged kink would be appropriate here.

Any bite marks and scars should be fully disclosed before sale. Animals with mites should not be sent out, but a refund was offered...though return shipping should be on the seller, that's the least that one could do for sending animals with mites, bite marks, and a possible kink. If the buyer doesn't want to return the animals, at least step up to the plate and send them a can of PAM.

Jennifer, a refund was offered, I think the wise move would be to accept it and take the loss on shipping. That's not how it should be, but it would probably be to your benefit at this point. If part of your motivation is getting the female pied at a fraction of the cost of what one would be, then that's just being greedy...you'd pretty much be saying you're willing to take mites in with your snakes if the price is right.

E-mails would be helpful as well, but this looks poorly played on both sides as of now.
 
Here is the first pic they sent of the "kink" as I said. I didn't think it looked like a kink but went ahead and asked a few people including a vet. Even though the answer I got back was it's not a kink, I still offered a refund.
piedmalekink.jpg
[/IMG]
 
I'd agree that it doesn't look like a kink, but it could just be the camera angle.
 
That was the pic they sent me to make my decision on a return. I still said yes. They also looked at the animals and gave the ok the day they shipped. Suddenly, over a week later they had mites. Mites can be gotten off food or bedding, how do I know there is a problem on my end now? I still have not seen proof of mites either. But I wasn't arguing the point since I already offered a refund.
 
Here is a quote from the pm that was sent to me when she first told me of the problems she was having. Notice there is no mention of mites even though she has taken a "Good look" male. Also the marks don't sound like much of a problem if shes believes they will come out in a "shed or two.

Originally Posted by JHMills
Hey,
The b/f informed me that the pied male had a nub tail when he arrived. I glanced at him when I got home Friday and saw it and all the "bite marks/scale rot"? I figured that would come out with a shed or two; however after leaving him alone for a week, I went ahead and really looked him over. He has a kink on his tail as well... directly above his vent. Its very noticeable when he is laying straight. Do you know anything about this?
Jennifer"
 
In the pic shown, I don't see a kink, either. Jennifer, do you have some e-mails and pics to share? So far, I don't see how the seller has been unreasonable by offering a full refund.
 
I have class today, but all info asked for will be given this evening. And if you notice in the pm he posted. I had glanced at them to make sure everything was still ok. He happened to be in a position that his tail was very noticeable. Im only home two-three days a week to check on the animals due to college. The substrate is newspaper and the cages were thoroughly cleaned after our last purchase which has been months ago. I'm not asking for free. I want the male issue fixed or a full refund with shipping paid back to him. It isn't my fault he didn't disclose any of the issues with the male. Lol and what would I breed a mite infested male to? The girls you sent aren't breeding size yet. I do quarantine new animals and there was no way these snakes were going with my healthy collection. I have way too much invested plus they are like any other pet.
 
I took this very quickly the other day. None of my 50plus collection has this.
Let me know if this doesn't suffice and I'll take more this evening when I go home to check on everyone. The last fee seconds of the video really show it.

Please click on pic.
 
I don't know if you would put them with your other collection or not. I would think it was a bad idea without a quarantine. But you might not follow that. And since the whole group is either pied or 100pct het, what is to stop you from sticking the male with the one(s) you are trying to keep?
As far as not being breeding size yet here is a pic I still happen to have. Now she is a little dirty from the substrate but that isn't mites.
08piedf.jpg
[/IMG]

Here is a copy of our pm messages since they got the Pieds
Re: Ball python
How was it one sided?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendragon_j
I've read what they wrote. I also read your post which was pretty one sided. I know you don't want to start an argument and so you left it in the help section. I still think I am being reasonable with returning the snakes. If you wish to return them, return them all. I've paid shipping for you once I am not willing to do so again. I didn't misrepresent the animals. I will not pay return shipping nor will I split the group up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHMills
Take a look at this link

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=300657

I wanted others opinions because I feel you are taking advantage of the situation. True you covered shipping... and I sent money orders instead of paypal to keep you from loosing as much. YOU agreed to the price. You didn't have to. You dumped off an animal on me because it isn't worth anything as a breeder and could probably fetch a couple hundred as a pet... if you were lucky because of the condition he is in.

We made a deal on the animals and price. There are mites and one animal isn't healthy. When you buy a dog, you would never guess you'd be getting a three legged dog. That's compareable to what we recieved.

I'm not trying to start a fight. I just want you to think about the whole situation and put yourself in my position. How would you feel if you didn't receive what you paid for and the sellers only response was...send them back at your own cost because the I lied to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pendragon_j
No. It is going to cover the purchase price. We've let a vet look at everything you have sent and he doesn't even believe it is even a kink. Instead of arguing about it though I have offered your money back. I think I have been more than reasonable. I did not make a false description in the ad. There was no description in the ad beyond the morph,year and sex of the animals. I sent you any pics you asked for. We even dropped the shipping the first time so that your price remained 2500. I am not going to pay for the shipping for you again. As far as I am concerned I have done everything I am going to do for you. If you would like to return them all . let me know, otherwise I don't know how to help you.I'll keep the refund offer for a week from today to help you decide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHMills
If we do the refund, it is going to have to cover purchase price and shipping both ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendragon_j
There is no need to keep asking questions about what I am willing to do. You say there are problems with the group so I am offering you a refund of the purchase price upon return of the animals. If you want to keep them, keep them. If you want to treat them, treat them. If you want anything from us. Return all the animals for a refund. Let me know what you decide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHMills
Are you going to cover vet bills and mite treatments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendragon_j
No. We sold them at a big discount as a group, and will take them back as a group if you want to return them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHMills
Daniel and I have been talking this over and we'd really like to keep at least the pied female. The way I divided it before I made the purchase is
$1000 for the pied female
$600 for the pied male
$450ea for the hets

Would you be willing to give me a partial refund of $1500 for the pied male and two het girls and I would cover shipping back to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendragon_j
We sold them as a group at a group price and we will only take them back as a group. I'm trying be reasonable here. I'm not questioning anything except the kink in the tail. I've asked multiple including a vet I know and all say that there is nothing wrong. I didn't want to take just my opinion on it since he was a pet and I may be a little bias. I offered you your money back even though no one thinks I need to. I want to be helpful, but the only way I'm taking any of the group back is to take all the group back. Please let me know what you would like to do.
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHMills
The last pm was a video... you have to click on it.

Just because he is able to breed doesn't mean he should be. Animals with deformities of any kind shouldn't be bred. You didn't disclose any of issues with this guy, and there are several things wrong. Tail being chewed off, kink, scale issue, mites.... I will gladly send him back for a partial refund, but I don't see how you right it by only taking all of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pendragon_j
I showed the pics to a few people, one of them a vet, and they agreed that what you see there is not a kink and should be fine. I didn't notice mites but if there are mites on them I am sorry for that. My offer still stands on them though. If you really don't want them now I will refund the purchase price. Just send the group to me. They are some lovely snakes and I wouldn't mind getting them back if needed. Let me know what you would like to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHMills


Quote:
Originally Posted by pendragon_j
Thanks for that pic. I've got a few people looking at it because it's hard to tell for me. The others are asking for a few more pics from different angles. Would you mind talking a few more from different angles. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHMills
Not the best pic but still very noticeable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pendragon_j
Would you mind sending a pic of what you are talking about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHMills
The problem is we won't breed an animal with kinks nor would we knowingly buy one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendragon_j
I know a rat got him when he was smaller on the tail. It isn't scale rot I am sure. I never noticed a kink in his tail, but I had not laid him out in some time. If there is something like that. I know it didn't effect breeding. He has bred for of at least 3 times. Let me know if there are any other questions 'll be happy to help if I can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHMills
Hey,
The b/f informed me that the pied male had a nub tail when he arrived. I glanced at him when I got home Friday and saw it and all the "bite marks/scale rot"? I figured that would come out with a shed or two; however after leaving him alone for a week, I went ahead and really looked him over. He has a kink on his tail as well... directly above his vent. Its very noticeable when he is laying straight. Do you know anything about this?
Jennifer

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendragon_j
Sorry. I got the text. I've been in the garage making a rat room. Just sat down a bit ago. I'll send them out Thurs for you. I don't recall if the hets are related but I'm sure I had the male by himself first.He was a pet of mine and the first pied I had. I think I got the three females together. They may be from the same clutch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHMills
Not sure if you got my last text, but if you could send them out Wednesday for Thursday arrival it'd be great.

Also are any of these related?

Thanks
Jennifer
 
If you notice in the posts I agreed to a refund before she even took that video. Even after I spoke to her b/f the day I shipped them out and he said they were fine. I also sent them any and all pics they asked for.
 
All other issues aside, I would be royally pi$$ed if you shipped me that mangled tail male without disclosing it, and had you disclosed it to me it never would have shipped. As far as the buyer having to eat shipping, I call bull on that too. I do now agree that it should be return all or none, given the details now expressed about pricing and what the group contains, but shipping should be at the expense of the seller. I hope you guys can work out your differences, and Johnathan this is not the way to start your reputation.
 
As a side note, you stating that less then 2 y/o pied female at less then 1200 grams is ready to breed is not very responsible either.
 
I stand by my statement in the other thread. The seller is well within his rights to have limited his offer to a full refund. However, given the undisclosed issues with the pied, my opinion is that it should have included return shipping. Like everybody else, I would have been beyond pi$$ed if I had received that pied.
Jonathan, you made a comment about this thread affecting your livelihood... but you screwed up. Showing that you can own up to your mistakes, and make the right decisions, will not be detrimental to your business. Failing to do so, especially when the matter has fallen under scrutiny, most certainly will.
 
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