Bad Guy pendragon_j Jonathan Hammond

[reptilebaby]

There is something wrong with that snake.

 

[JHMills]

I've attempted to make this easier to read. Here are the PMs from the beginning.

01-09-2012, 05:04 PM
Can you send pics and weights of the 08 pieds and hets? Also pics of the pastel female? Thanks

01-09-2012, 05:13 PM
I can send pick of the pieds on scales. Didn't think to weigh the hets. Sorry about the het pics, I should have told my friend to put his shirt on before we took them . lol

01-09-2012, 05:16 PM
lol no problem. Did you have any of the pastel female as well? What are all of them eating? Thanks

***Pic sent but deleted from photobucket***

01-09-2012, 05:31 PM
I have a few questions about the pied group. Who produced them and do the hets have paperwork? What are the four eating? Rats, mice, asf?

Thanks again

01-09-2012, 05:38 PM
No paperwork on the hets. They were bred by my friends (the guy holding the snakes) Uncle.
Thay are all eating live rats at the moment but I don't think they would be difficult to switch to F/T if you were to try.

01-09-2012, 05:42 PM
Do you guarantee live arrival, sex, genetics, and health?

01-09-2012, 05:49 PM
I insure when I ship from SYR so live is guaranteed
All of the snakes on this list have been ultrasounded to yes on the sex. I know the breeder personally so yes on the genetics and I'll give a month on the health which in about twice as long as some of the others I've seen. ***I forgot about this***

01-09-2012, 05:55 PM
what's the best price for

1.1 pieds
0.2 het pieds

shipped to 36502? I'm going to discuss getting these four with my partner. Thanks

01-09-2012, 06:25 PM
SYR quote is right at 175 for them all in one box.

01-09-2012, 06:31 PM
what's the least you'd take for the group?

01-09-2012, 06:36 PM
We have the group proced about as low as we would go on them. But I'll cover 100 dollars on the shipping if you like.

01-09-2012, 06:44 PM
One of the pieds looked really dark. My partner is wondering if you have a better pic of that one and which is male/ female.

01-09-2012, 06:56 PM
I don't have a better pick atm. I should be able to get one tomorrow though. I looked at the picks and that one is the male. He isn't that dark really. Just bad lighting

01-10-2012, 06:59 PM
Ok, sounds good. How much do the hets weigh? You can call my b/f Daniel at 850-288-xxxx if its easier. Thanks.
Jennifer

01-14-2012, 03:32 PM
Sorry for taking so long to get back with you. I was a little ill this week. I've spoken with your BF. Here is some better pics
pied female

Pied male

01-14-2012, 09:10 PM
Hey,
We are going to get the group. Daniel will give you a call tomorrow to sort out details; we've had a busy day. Thanks
Jennifer

01-18-2012, 05:54 PM
Money was sent for the pied group today. Hopefully you get it by Saturday. Please let me know when you do. Thanks

01-18-2012, 06:33 PM
I will thanks again. I thought we were thinning our and I just bought 1.2 russo's lol. Viscous cycle. Hope you all are having a good day

01-18-2012, 06:52 PM
I hear ya! I kept telling myself I wasn't going to get anything until we sold babies this year....didn't happen obviously. Lol

If the money orders make it there in time will you be available to ship Monday for Tuesday arrival?

01-18-2012, 09:09 PM
I was waiting until you sent the money before I got the box to ship them in. (This would have been great to know before I sent money) I'l go ahead and trust you and make my order today. As long as the weather is good we should be able to ship monday. Just checked the weather channel app. Monday looks good as of now.


01-22-2012, 11:57 AM
Hey,
Just wanted to give you the shipping address and info

Jennifer Mills
…………………………..
Atmore AL 36502
251-229-xxxx

Thanks.
Jennifer

01-22-2012, 03:32 PM
Awesome as long as I get the box tomorrow I'll send it out that evening.

01-23-2012, 02:01 PM
It's 3:00 here and the box hasn't come yet. I think it should show up by tomorrow. If it does, I will call and see what is the best day for you to receive your new snakes. Thanks again
Jonathan

01-24-2012, 09:19 AM
I just got the boxes. Please let me know if you will be able to recieve the snakes tomorrow morning. I need a confirmation by 3:00 so that I can drop them off by 4:00.
Thanks
Jonathan

01-24-2012, 06:59 PM
Not sure if you got my last text, but if you could send them out Wednesday for Thursday arrival it'd be great.

Also are any of these related?

Thanks
Jennifer

01-24-2012, 07:22 PM
Sorry. I got the text. I've been in the garage making a rat room. Just sat down a bit ago. I'll send them out Thurs for you. I don't recall if the hets are related but I'm sure I had the male by himself first.He was a pet of mine and the first pied I had. I think I got the three females together. They may be from the same clutch.

01-25-2012, 05:36 PM
Please send shipping info to [email protected]. Thanks!

02-03-2012, 08:59 PM
Hey,
The b/f informed me that the pied male had a nub tail when he arrived. I glanced at him when I got home Friday and saw it and all the "bite marks/scale rot"? I figured that would come out with a shed or two; however after leaving him alone for a week, I went ahead and really looked him over. He has a kink on his tail as well... directly above his vent. Its very noticeable when he is laying straight. Do you know anything about this?
Jennifer

02-04-2012, 10:43 AM
I know a rat got him when he was smaller on the tail. It isn't scale rot I am sure. I never noticed a kink in his tail, but I had not laid him out in some time. If there is something like that. I know it didn't effect breeding. He has bred for of at least 3 times. Let me know if there are any other questions 'll be happy to help if I can.

02-04-2012, 02:15 PM
The problem is we won't breed an animal with kinks nor would we knowingly buy one.

02-04-2012, 03:34 PM
Would you mind sending a pic of what you are talking about?

02-04-2012, 03:49 PM
Not the best pic but still very noticeable.

02-04-2012, 04:26 PM
Thanks for that pic. I've got a few people looking at it because it's hard to tell for me. The others are asking for a few more pics from different angles. Would you mind talking a few more from different angles. Thanks.

02-04-2012, 05:12 PM
I'm attempting to upload a video from my camera... hopefully it will upload... I unfortunately just found mites on both pieds, so I'm pretty sure they all four have them. Luckily I have them in quarantine.

If the video doesn't upload (going slow now), I'll send pics instead.

02-04-2012, 05:18 PM


02-04-2012, 06:08 PM
Well, It looks more like a kink in the second pic. I spoke with my partner and we have decided to go ahead and refund your purchase if you like. We will only do it for the full group though. Please send them back for a refund of the purchase price. If that is what you would like Thanks again

02-04-2012, 06:29 PM
I showed the pics to a few people, one of them a vet, and they agreed that what you see there is not a kink and should be fine. I didn't notice mites but if there are mites on them I am sorry for that. My offer still stands on them though. If you really don't want them now I will refund the purchase price. Just send the group to me. They are some lovely snakes and I wouldn't mind getting them back if needed. Let me know what you would like to do

02-04-2012, 07:26 PM
The last pm was a video... you have to click on it.

Just because he is able to breed doesn't mean he should be. Animals with deformities of any kind shouldn't be bred. You didn't disclose any of issues with this guy, and there are several things wrong. Tail being chewed off, kink, scale issue, mites.... I will gladly send him back for a partial refund, but I don't see how you right it by only taking all of them.

02-04-2012, 08:04 PM
We sold them as a group at a group price and we will only take them back as a group. I'm trying be reasonable here. I'm not questioning anything except the kink in the tail. I've asked multiple including a vet I know and all say that there is nothing wrong. I didn't want to take just my opinion on it since he was a pet and I may be a little bias. I offered you your money back even though no one thinks I need to. I want to be helpful, but the only way I'm taking any of the group back is to take all the group back. Please let me know what you would like to do.
Thanks

02-05-2012, 09:21 AM
Daniel and I have been talking this over and we'd really like to keep at least the pied female. The way I divided it before I made the purchase is
$1000 for the pied female
$600 for the pied male
$450ea for the hets

Would you be willing to give me a partial refund of $1500 for the pied male and two het girls and I would cover shipping back to you?

02-05-2012, 09:41 AM
No. We sold them at a big discount as a group, and will take them back as a group if you want to return them.

02-05-2012, 10:01 AM
Are you going to cover vet bills and mite treatments?

02-05-2012, 10:15 AM
There is no need to keep asking questions about what I am willing to do. You say there are problems with the group so I am offering you a refund of the purchase price upon return of the animals. If you want to keep them, keep them. If you want to treat them, treat them. If you want anything from us. Return all the animals for a refund. Let me know what you decide.

02-05-2012, 10:37 AM
If we do the refund, it is going to have to cover purchase price and shipping both ways.

02-05-2012, 11:04 AM
No. It is going to cover the purchase price. We've let a vet look at everything you have sent and he doesn't even believe it is even a kink. Instead of arguing about it though I have offered your money back. I think I have been more than reasonable. I did not make a false description in the ad. There was no description in the ad beyond the morph,year and sex of the animals. I sent you any pics you asked for. We even dropped the shipping the first time so that your price remained 2500. I am not going to pay for the shipping for you again. As far as I am concerned I have done everything I am going to do for you. If you would like to return them all . let me know, otherwise I don't know how to help you.I'll keep the refund offer for a week from today to help you decide.

02-06-2012, 06:22 PM
Take a look at this link

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=300657

I wanted others opinions because I feel you are taking advantage of the situation. True you covered shipping... and I sent money orders instead of paypal to keep you from loosing as much. YOU agreed to the price. You didn't have to. You dumped off an animal on me because it isn't worth anything as a breeder and could probably fetch a couple hundred as a pet... if you were lucky because of the condition he is in.

We made a deal on the animals and price. There are mites and one animal isn't healthy. When you buy a dog, you would never guess you'd be getting a three legged dog. That's compareable to what we recieved.

I'm not trying to start a fight. I just want you to think about the whole situation and put yourself in my position. How would you feel if you didn't receive what you paid for and the sellers only response was...send them back at your own cost because the I lied to you.

02-06-2012, 08:16 PM
I've read what they wrote. I also read your post which was pretty one sided. I know you don't want to start an argument and so you left it in the help section. I still think I am being reasonable with returning the snakes. If you wish to return them, return them all. I've paid shipping for you once I am not willing to do so again. I didn't misrepresent the animals. I will not pay return shipping nor will I split the group up.

02-06-2012, 09:01 PM
How was it one sided?

02-06-2012, 09:09 PM
Look, I've told you what I'm willing to do to fix this. There are no amount of pms or posts that will change this. If you would like to return them let me know when you ship.

02-06-2012, 10:57 PM
Thank you for you post in the BOI. I was trying to keep this between us here but after I saw your post I felt relieved to get this out in the open. I am done being reasonable and trying to work with you. Consider my offer for a refund over with. Have a pleasant day.


Additional pics to come that I took today and a few days ago.

 

[JHMills]

You can see he has spots all over his body; however most are closer to tail.

One of the mites I found crawling on him... all 4 snakes have been treated.

Does this look years old or more recent?

 

[JCCS]

Anyone that buys snakes after seeing pics of that snake room has to have some seriously questionable decision-making abilities. That said, Jonathan, you should be ashamed of yourself for keeping snakes that way, and beyond that, thinking that it's ok to send out snakes in that condition. Those snakes are nastier than most WC animals.

It seems to be difficult for you to get through your head what the proper thing to do in this situation is, Jonathan. Pay the OP's shipping costs, clean some cages and that room, get some PAM, and take that snake to a vet asap. That is the bare minimum that you owe those animals.

Those are the types of conditions and pictures that make's HSUS' and PETA's job all too easy painting the reptile world in a bad light. That may be a tough thing to hear, but the truth sometimes sucks. You need to do some deep thinking on what made you get into reptiles in the first place.

Chris

 

[pendragon_j]

Anyone that buys snakes after seeing pics of that snake room has to have some seriously questionable decision-making abilities. That said, Jonathan, you should be ashamed of yourself for keeping snakes that way, and beyond that, thinking that it's ok to send out snakes in that condition. Those snakes are nastier than most WC animals.

It seems to be difficult for you to get through your head what the proper thing to do in this situation is, Jonathan. Pay the OP's shipping costs, clean some cages and that room, get some PAM, and take that snake to a vet asap. That is the bare minimum that you owe those animals.

Those are the types of conditions and pictures that make's HSUS' and PETA's job all too easy painting the reptile world in a bad light. That may be a tough thing to hear, but the truth sometimes sucks. You need to do some deep thinking on what made you get into reptiles in the first place.

Chris

This is my snake room. That is the guys I borrowed the scales from. His belly too. I wouldn't keep or sell snakes from a room like that. That being said those pics were taken before the sale was made. Yet the snakes were still bought so there must have not been too big of a problem on her end with those conditions

[/IMG]

 

[JCCS]

That's nice that the room isn't yours, but it doesn't account for all the crud on the actual snakes. As I said, I'd have never bought snakes from those pics, and the buyer obviously did, but that does not excuse you from keeping those snakes in what must be pretty deplorable conditions, judging from the amount of what must be fecal material encrusted on them.

Chris

 

[pendragon_j]

I feel it's also amazing how that kink cleared up in that close up tail shot and the one where he is coiled. And since there was such a big mite problem it was completely cleared up after what has to be no more than one treatment. The only proof left in one dead mite that could have came from any snake. If she saw what I was offering and didn't like my terms why not snap a couple pics or a video of the infestation? She seems handy enough with a camera.

 

[pendragon_j]

That isn't fecal matter. That is cypress mulch substrate.

 

[pendragon_j]

Sometime the smaller bits stick. I just needed to wipe them off.

[/IMG]

 

[JCCS]

I'm pretty certain that that isn't cypress mulch, Jonathan. Also, you still haven't addressed the lack of vet care on that massive tail injury. I'm sorry, but when bone is exposed, an animal needs to have some serious medical attention, not be shipped across country. You need to stop pointing the finger and come to the realization that while the OP isn't an angel here, you are directly responsible for the majority of the problems in this thread.

Also, if a snake comes in with one mite, it's just as bad as it coming in with several hundred. Are you telling me that you are alright with your snakes having mites? You're digging a huge hole for yourself, and seem to be whistling dixie while you're doing it. From the pics, your unwillingness to remedy the issue and your flippant attitude about the whole situation, I seriously doubt that anyone reading this thread would be excited to purchase a lump of coal from you, much less a living animal.

Chris

 

[pendragon_j]

It is cypress mulch. I'm not saying that having mites is right. I'm saying sticking a mite on a snake isn't proof that it had mites. Why not take a pic before the treatment? Since we are having these problems?

 

[JHMills]

That isn't fecal matter. That is cypress mulch substrate.

That's actually what I assumed it is as I know someone that uses cypress as substrate... plus there is a piece in the water dish that they were put in to be weighed... maybe it was a poor choice on my part not to ask.

As far as the kink, I've already said it is not noticable when the snake is coiled up. You only notice it if he is laying straight or if the end of his tail is pointing up. If you actually look you can still see it in the full body shot. The angle of the tail shots does not show it; not to mention the one pic barely shows any of the kink. That doesn't mean it has disappeared.

I treated them for mites right after I informed you that they had them with a nix solution. The mite was found crawling down his body today (you can see it is standing up), and it was a good opportunity to get a pic. I killed it right after, but when that pic was taken, it was alive. I plan to treat them again this weekend.

 

[HighVoltageRoyals]

This is all very textbook to me...I don't see why you're being so difficult Johnathan. The snake was obviously misrepresented > you acknowledge it > give the refund WITH shipping included for her to send the snake back to you. It wasn't her fault she got a snake that she didn't bargain for, it's yours because you misrepresented it; so why should she have to pay anything at all?

Please do your reputation a favor and settle this like a good guy. I really don't like adding anyone to my bad guy list.

 

[pendragon_j]

Even after all this I offered a refund. I never promised her return shipping in any posts, but would have given it when I spoke to them the day of. A week later is a little late if all these problems were there from the start. Up until the BOI I would give her a refund. I will not pay for shipping. And she isn't just asking for return shipping, she wants me to pay for shipping both ways again. I paid for shipping to her once. Not going to give her shipping to her again.

 

[pendragon_j]

I'm not going to take the male back by himself. Once we spoke and the nip wasn't troubling enough to be a problem then, they accepted the reptile after I called them the day of. The bottom line is I am not going to pay shipping both ways again. If that is wrong. I guess I am a bad guy.

 

[JHMills]

Even after all this I offered a refund. I never promised her return shipping in any posts, but would have given it when I spoke to them the day of. A week later is a little late if all these problems were there from the start. Up until the BOI I would give her a refund. I will not pay for shipping. And she isn't just asking for return shipping, she wants me to pay for shipping both ways again. I paid for shipping to her once. Not going to give her shipping to her again.

I could understand your point IF what I had received was healthy and problem free. But they weren't, and the male is in ridiculous shape. I've suggested many solutions, all of which you have cut down. Your only offer WAS a refund of the purchase price as a group only, and I have to pay shipping for you not disclosing the snakes condition. In your last PM, you retracted your offer since I posted here to show your "business practices".

 

[pendragon_j]

Maybe it is unclear what she is asking for. Tell me if this math seems odd...
2500.00 for the deal
- 159.00 shipping

2341.00 for me.
She want a refund Plus shipping both ways back
2500.00
+ 159.00
+ 159.00

2818.00 to her and -318.00 to me. I don't think so. Not going to do it

 

[pendragon_j]

This is why I retracted you offer

 

[pendragon_j]

Even now though I would still take the group back. But only as a group

 

[pendragon_j]

Will you admit that I spoke with your boyfriend / partner the day of. That the tail tip was mentioned then and that no refund or any form of displeasure was offered at that point?