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Bad Guy Beware of Jerry Kruse

TONY D said:
At John L.

Darn good post John! An interesting angle indeed. Very good reason for Jerry to take extreme quarantine measures when he gets the animals back.
Click to expand...

Thanks Tony...
I was tired of seeing the same bashing from the zonata experts as from those that don't even know what a zonata is...lol

I believe Jerry is doing the right thing.
I also believe that Stu's zonata do have symptoms of ZD, but I don't know, nor does ANYONE know how they got it.
I also believe it is possible that it can be reversed, but maybe not after a month.
 
StuTennyson said:
My husbandry techniques have come under scrutiny during the course of this thread. I have responded with details and pics as to how I have maintained these snakes. I've noticed since posting pics showing current humidity that there has not been any comments regarding the possibility that my snakes are being maintained too dry. So I guess that means they are acceptable conditions... It would be nice to see some similar evidence from those that have made recent posts regarding their zonata's and how perfectly healthy they are. Maybe we (I) can learn how better to keep them.
Click to expand...

Stu,
Even with perfect husbandry a zonata can become "infected" with ZD.
I don't really think your husbandry had anything to do with their condition.
I believe they were infected by another animal (zonata or not?) somehow.
 
tsktsk

JerryKruse said:
.... You call it damage control, I call it a series of events that went awry between two very different people that didn't look at the problem the same way. The fact that I continue to make commentary here isn't damage control, however if you or anyone else continue to WANT to look at it that way for whatever your reason may be, I could also very well NOT maintain a daily presence here -- and I'm positive THAT would be misconstrued in some negative way as well. So what would you prefer? =)
Click to expand...

a series of events that went awry?!?!?! really?, really? hmmmm the way i read it stu paid you 3100.00 and within 2 weeks they looked terrible and stu TRIED to handle between just the 2 of you and was UNSUCCESSFUL so he brought it here. ONLY after pressure here did you say you would do the right thing and REFUND his money. sad but true
 
There seems to be a push to determine what caused Stu's snakes to deteriorate as they have, as if that will point to a proper course of resolution between him and Jerry. I would suggest that that is irrelevant. If these snakes within days of being received had begun showing symptoms of a known deadly disease such as IBD or crypto, would anyone have questioned if the seller should have made a prompt refund whether or not the disease had actually been definitively diagnosed? I doubt it. It is unfair to the buyer but that is the reality if he wants to keep a good seller rating and keep this stuff off the forums.
 
???

Rick Staub said:
There seems to be a push to determine what caused Stu's snakes to deteriorate as they have, as if that will point to a proper course of resolution between him and Jerry. I would suggest that that is irrelevant. If these snakes within days of being received had begun showing symptoms of a known deadly disease such as IBD or crypto, would anyone have questioned if the seller should have made a prompt refund whether or not the disease had actually been definitively diagnosed? I doubt it. It is unfair to the buyer but that is the reality if he wants to keep a good seller rating and keep this stuff off the forums.
Click to expand...

Can you take a snake to a vet and determine if the animals has IBD or crypto? Can you take a Z to the vet to determine if it has ZD? You are saying that all you have to do is say that you think it has something and that is reason for a refund. I think that it is possible for a snake to go south very quickly and it is possible for it not to be a sellers fault. Jerry is refunding him and there is no proof of what happened. There isn't even a test to say it is ZD. Stu said he talked to Jerry and they are working it out. What else is there to talk about? Stu is getting his full refund and all the comments from the keyboard commandos is what's irrelevant.
 
Rick Staub said:
There seems to be a push to determine what caused Stu's snakes to deteriorate as they have, as if that will point to a proper course of resolution between him and Jerry. I would suggest that that is irrelevant. If these snakes within days of being received had begun showing symptoms of a known deadly disease such as IBD or crypto, would anyone have questioned if the seller should have made a prompt refund whether or not the disease had actually been definitively diagnosed? I doubt it. It is unfair to the buyer but that is the reality if he wants to keep a good seller rating and keep this stuff off the forums.
Click to expand...

Now you are playing right into what this board knows and/or doesn't know about and you know it...You hit the nail on the head when you stated "a KNOWN deadly disease like IBD or Crypto." ZD is not known very well by anyone. I hope one day y'all west coasters figure it all out for everyone though...

NO ONE...not Stu, not Jerry, not Thomas, not Rick, not Mitch, not Paul, not Jeff nor anyone for that matter knows how Stu's animals were "infected."

But....Jerry is doing the right thing and that is what matters.
I believe this thread is over now. They settled it, now all they have to do is follow through with THEIR deal.
 
Gerards said:
Can you take a snake to a vet and determine if the animals has IBD or crypto? Can you take a Z to the vet to determine if it has ZD? You are saying that all you have to do is say that you think it has something and that is reason for a refund. I think that it is possible for a snake to go south very quickly and it is possible for it not to be a sellers fault. Jerry is refunding him and there is no proof of what happened. There isn't even a test to say it is ZD. Stu said he talked to Jerry and they are working it out. What else is there to talk about? Stu is getting his full refund and all the comments from the keyboard commandos is what's irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Wow Gerard. I was about as impartial as you can get and by your standard I am a "keyboard commando"? I even stated that it was unfair that the seller has to take on this responsibility when something comes up shortly after a sale. What gives?

No ZD cannot be diagnosed past looking at symptoms and using experience to make plausible assumption (done more often then you think in medicine). For IBD you need to do a liver biopsy to look for inclusions. Not possible for many vets and frequently done during necropsy. For crypto you can look for fecal spores (?) but sometimes you need to do stomach scrapes post mortum. Point being that if symptoms arose within days of receipt for either of these typically fatal diseases, why should the buyer put out substantially more time and funds to show they definitively have the disease? If a python starts star gazing with a couple days it is going back to the seller. If a rosy is puking every meal it is going back to the seller. It is unfair but the presumption is that the seller is responsible regardless if the snake actually has the disease in the end.
 
Rick Staub said:
I should have said "that a seller has to take on this responsibility" since I was not intending to single out Jerry.
Click to expand...

That makes more sense. What you said first was that it was unfair to the buyer.

I was not referring to you as the keyboard commando. You have experience with these animals. I was referring to the people who have not dealt with the two people involved or the animals.

With that said, what was the point of your first response? The situation was resolved off the forum.............there's nothing more to say.
 
"No ZD cannot be diagnosed past looking at symptoms and using experience to make plausible assumption (done more often then you think in medicine). For IBD you need to do a liver biopsy to look for inclusions. Not possible for many vets and frequently done during necropsy. For crypto you can look for fecal spores (?) but sometimes you need to do stomach scrapes post mortum. Point being that if symptoms arose within days of receipt for either of these typically fatal diseases, why should the buyer put out substantially more time and funds to show they definitively have the disease? If a python starts star gazing with a couple days it is going back to the seller. If a rosy is puking every meal it is going back to the seller. It is unfair but the presumption is that the seller is responsible regardless if the snake actually has the disease in the end."

Ok, there is no way to say it's ZD. The snakes are going back to the seller. What's the problem? He wasn't hiding or ignoring him and he's refunding him. What else needs to be said. All that info you gave was good. How is someone's opinion on how fast the refund wasn't done relevant ? I don't even know stu or Jerry. I just think that it's over and the couple people that keep taking shots are the "BAD GUYS". Im sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you. That wasn't what I was trying to do.
 
Good for Jerry for agreeing to a full refund. And good for Stu too! A lot can happen in two weeks to a delicate reptile. By the way, since when is Azle considered "rural Texas"? It's only 20 minutes from Fort Worth!
 
Gerards said:
"No ZD cannot be diagnosed past looking at symptoms and using experience to make plausible assumption (done more often then you think in medicine). For IBD you need to do a liver biopsy to look for inclusions. Not possible for many vets and frequently done during necropsy. For crypto you can look for fecal spores (?) but sometimes you need to do stomach scrapes post mortum. Point being that if symptoms arose within days of receipt for either of these typically fatal diseases, why should the buyer put out substantially more time and funds to show they definitively have the disease? If a python starts star gazing with a couple days it is going back to the seller. If a rosy is puking every meal it is going back to the seller. It is unfair but the presumption is that the seller is responsible regardless if the snake actually has the disease in the end."

Ok, there is no way to say it's ZD. The snakes are going back to the seller. What's the problem? He wasn't hiding or ignoring him and he's refunding him. What else needs to be said. All that info you gave was good. How is someone's opinion on how fast the refund wasn't done relevant ? I don't even know stu or Jerry. I just think that it's over and the couple people that keep taking shots are the "BAD GUYS". Im sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you. That wasn't what I was trying to do.
Click to expand...

I think, perhaps, that some people are concerned about the ANIMALS, not the two participants. Considering how quickly they went downhill in just two weeks, perhaps they believe that Jerry would be in much more of a hurry to get them back before three weeks more time may make their decline irreversible, regardless of the undetermined cause of that decline in health. If Jerry feels he can get them back on the path to good health, wouldn't time be of the essence here?
 
WebSlave said:
I think, perhaps, that some people are concerned about the ANIMALS, not the two participants. Considering how quickly they went downhill in just two weeks, perhaps they believe that Jerry would be in much more of a hurry to get them back before three weeks more time may make their decline irreversible, regardless of the undetermined cause of that decline in health. If Jerry feels he can get them back on the path to good health, wouldn't time be of the essence here?
Click to expand...
Hard to argue with that logic, from where I'm sitting.
 
WebSlave said:
I think, perhaps, that some people are concerned about the ANIMALS, not the two participants. Considering how quickly they went downhill in just two weeks, perhaps they believe that Jerry would be in much more of a hurry to get them back before three weeks more time may make their decline irreversible, regardless of the undetermined cause of that decline in health. If Jerry feels he can get them back on the path to good health, wouldn't time be of the essence here?
Click to expand...

Yes, I think SOME are. However, thats not what a majority of the post were about. Is time of the essence? What is wrong with them again? The two important things were Stu wanted a refund and Jerry is giving him one. If the animals safety was the most important thing why didn't they get shipped back already? Jerry offered to take them back and start working on them a long time ago. Everyone said that was crazy and that money was more important. So, it seems that the people were concerned about the participants. Just my opinion.
 
Stu's statement was that he didn't want Jerry to work on them and send them back - given the situation, would you have sent $3100 worth of snakes back without a refund?
Generally, earlier intervention is preferable with most problems...though sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that make waiting a reasonable choice.
I think the point is that if Jerry is in a position to make it happen before the end of the month, that would likely be the best option for the well being of the snakes. One can argue that if the snakes are the concern, they should be sent back ASAP now that Jerry has promised the refund....however, that - IMO - is totally up to Stu, since it is his $3100, and he is the one that became frustrated with Jerry's unwillingness to refund until now. There is a considerable difference between promising a refund, and putting the money back into somebody's hand/account. It comes down to whether Stu thinks Jerry has earned $3100 worth of trust.
 
hhmoore said:
Stu's statement was that he didn't want Jerry to work on them and send them back - given the situation, would you have sent $3100 worth of snakes back without a refund?
Generally, earlier intervention is preferable with most problems...though sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that make waiting a reasonable choice.
I think the point is that if Jerry is in a position to make it happen before the end of the month, that would likely be the best option for the well being of the snakes. One can argue that if the snakes are the concern, they should be sent back ASAP now that Jerry has promised the refund....however, that - IMO - is totally up to Stu, since it is his $3100, and he is the one that became frustrated with Jerry's unwillingness to refund until now. There is a considerable difference between promising a refund, and putting the money back into somebody's hand/account. It comes down to whether Stu thinks Jerry has earned $3100 worth of trust.
Click to expand...

That was the best post yet! It's up to them. The unwillingness to refund could be because they left and arrived in perfect shape. He didn't hide or lie so what's not to trust? Were they shipped to him COD or did he pay him first? What's the difference? Good post!
 
Gerards said:
Jerry offered to take them back and start working on them a long time ago. Everyone said that was crazy and that money was more important. So, it seems that the people were concerned about the participants. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

everyone? who said it was crazy and money was more important??? i must have missed that.
see the BOI is concerned about the participants thats WHY its here. quite frankly imho had jerry done what was right in the begining and had stu ship them to him asap with a promise of a refund if thats indeed what he wanted none of this would be here now. stu had the snakes for 2 weeks showed how he kept them and how they looked in 2weeks. jerry has said a refund is gonna happen, and stu is gonna send them back, when where and how that happens is up to stu and jerry. why are your only 5 posts on fauna in this one thread??? you must really like jerry and somehow feel he is right and has been wronged if that is the case .... spit it out.
see i like jerry to and was pretty let down that he didnt handle this before it was brought here. but it appears to now be resolved, time will tell.
 
thomas davis said:
everyone? who said it was crazy and money was more important??? i must have missed that.
see the BOI is concerned about the participants thats WHY its here. quite frankly imho had jerry done what was right in the begining and had stu ship them to him asap with a promise of a refund if thats indeed what he wanted none of this would be here now. stu had the snakes for 2 weeks showed how he kept them and how they looked in 2weeks. jerry has said a refund is gonna happen, and stu is gonna send them back, when where and how that happens is up to stu and jerry. why are your only 5 posts on fauna in this one thread??? you must really like jerry and somehow feel he is right and has been wronged if that is the case .... spit it out.
see i like jerry to and was pretty let down that he didnt handle this before it was brought here. but it appears to now be resolved, time will tell.
Click to expand...

I don't know Jerry or Stu. I'm not concerned about their deal. This thread got big fast and the way some people(you being one of them) use this forum is what made me post. This place can and does do good. This was not one of the times where that happened. Stu and Jerry are big boys and they can figure stuff out on their own. To think that you insisting on someone doing something helped is crazy. You can't make someone do something they don't want to do. Stu didn't like Jerry's way and Jerry didn't like Stu's way. Who is wrong there? They are and were the only ones that made something happened. What is left to say that helps the situation? Are you going to sit here and wait until Stu gets paid or else? Will you be ready to TYPE something to make someone do something? Lol! Your fingers must be jacked! The deal is done, if he doesn't pay up it's back on but you and the other after deal made commenters aren't doing anything. Sorry if I hurt you feelings with my first post. I'm trying to stop, I really am!
 
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