Bad Guy Beware of Jerry Kruse

[thomas davis]

not one of the times it happened?!?!?!?!? how so??? what do you know??? because resolution totally happened! or will as stated by both parties.
and no they apparently COULDNT figure it out and that is WHY it is here.
hurt my feelings??? what does that mean??? you havnt hurt my feelings.
it does seem odd that your only posts on this site are in this one thread somehow trying to defend jerrys actions.

 

[East_Coast]

not one of the times it happened?!?!?!?!? how so??? what do you know??? because resolution totally happened! or will as stated by both parties.
and no they apparently COULDNT figure it out and that is WHY it is here.
hurt my feelings??? what does that mean??? you havnt hurt my feelings.
it does seem odd that your only posts on this site are in this one thread somehow trying to defend jerrys actions.

these side squabbles are so predictable and so ridiculous.

Yawn....

 

[Christina Vincent]

Ya, quit makin me look for non thread related posts lol, my email alert from my phone - while funny - is less funny when I look and see you two arguing just sayin...the thread was necessary, will indeed help others in making purchasing decisions and just may work out wonderfully for the OP and seller.

 

[rattler]

Jerry is refunding him and there is no proof of what happened. There isn't even a test to say it is ZD. Stu said he talked to Jerry and they are working it out. What else is there to talk about? Stu is getting his full refund and all the comments from the keyboard commandos is what's irrelevant.

This pretty much sums thing up. I know both Stu and Jerry and can't say anything but good things about them both. With that said I'm sure everything will turn out just fine.

 

[WebSlave]

I don't know Jerry or Stu. I'm not concerned about their deal. This thread got big fast and the way some people(you being one of them) use this forum is what made me post. This place can and does do good. This was not one of the times where that happened. Stu and Jerry are big boys and they can figure stuff out on their own. To think that you insisting on someone doing something helped is crazy. You can't make someone do something they don't want to do. Stu didn't like Jerry's way and Jerry didn't like Stu's way. Who is wrong there? They are and were the only ones that made something happened. What is left to say that helps the situation? Are you going to sit here and wait until Stu gets paid or else? Will you be ready to TYPE something to make someone do something? Lol! Your fingers must be jacked! The deal is done, if he doesn't pay up it's back on but you and the other after deal made commenters aren't doing anything. Sorry if I hurt you feelings with my first post. I'm trying to stop, I really am!

In my opinion, the way people used this thread has apparently been of a big help to Stu. Why did he bring it here? Did it help bring about a resolution? Would that have happened otherwise? Sorry, I guess people can't see what is right in front of them if it doesn't just flat out slap them silly to get their full attention.

A lot of people have learned from this thread and will likely learn more over time just from how this all pans out. Satisfactory resolutions have taken place time and time again here on the BOI, and yet the detractors continue to turn a blind eye to that fact. Quite frankly, and in my opinion, once the one-on-one negotiations after the fact have ended with no resolution in sight, there really isn't any other place on the planet where a resolution CAN possibly come about. Do you think law enforcement will help? Want to file a lawsuit? The reason I set up the BOI in the first place was because I found out through personal experience that NONE of those options will help you. Do you think law enforcement is going to be concerned about a snake deal for a paltry $3100? Do you think an attorney is going to be interested in being retained to file a lawsuit for that small amount of money? Heck, if would cost at least twice that amount just to establish the court of jurisdiction. So yeah, good luck with that ....

So again, WHY did Stu bring this issue HERE?

And no, the deal is NOT done till the refund takes place and the animals are back in Jerry's hands. At this point things have only been SAID, not DONE. If things were always DONE as were SAID, then there would be absolutely no reason for the BOI to exist.

So please, all the backseat drivers claiming that this is over with, zip it. The fat lady hasn't come close to singing yet.

 

[Gerards]

In my opinion, the way people used this thread has apparently been of a big help to Stu. Why did he bring it here? Did it help bring about a resolution? Would that have happened otherwise? Sorry, I guess people can't see what is right in front of them if it doesn't just flat out slap them silly to get their full attention.

A lot of people have learned from this thread and will likely learn more over time just from how this all pans out. Satisfactory resolutions have taken place time and time again here on the BOI, and yet the detractors continue to turn a blind eye to that fact. Quite frankly, and in my opinion, once the one-on-one negotiations after the fact have ended with no resolution in sight, there really isn't any other place on the planet where a resolution CAN possibly come about. Do you think law enforcement will help? Want to file a lawsuit? The reason I set up the BOI in the first place was because I found out through personal experience that NONE of those options will help you. Do you think law enforcement is going to be concerned about a snake deal for a paltry $3100? Do you think an attorney is going to be interested in being retained to file a lawsuit for that small amount of money? Heck, if would cost at least twice that amount just to establish the court of jurisdiction. So yeah, good luck with that ....

So again, WHY did Stu bring this issue HERE?

And no, the deal is NOT done till the refund takes place and the animals are back in Jerry's hands. At this point things have only been SAID, not DONE. If things were always DONE as were SAID, then there would be absolutely no reason for the BOI to exist.

So please, all the backseat drivers claiming that this is over with, zip it. The fat lady hasn't come close to singing yet.

You do not need to defend your website to me. I think it does work sometimes.
What can you say now that is of any help until the time of the refund passes?

 

[Bobby Douglass]

You do not need to defend your website to me. I think it does work sometimes.
What can you say now that is of any help until the time of the refund passes?

If Jerry follows through with the refund this website worked whether you want to admit it or not. If it bothers you so much for someone besides you to post why not just stop reading this thread?

 

[Gerards]

If Jerry follows through with the refund this website worked whether you want to admit it or not. If it bothers you so much for someone besides you to post why not just stop reading this thread?

So I should not want to read relative information on here. I thought this is for me to make decisions. I said the site works sometimes. I am happy they reached a conclusion. It's all the opinions from people that don't know either of them and tell people what they should do about a deal.

 

[laterob]

I don't know either of them. I am wondering why a 7-week or so delay from when Stu told Jerry he wasn't satisfied until he can expect his refund? How come nobody is asking about the slow repayment? Never spend the money until you know the customer is right, right?

From the (simpler) transaction standpoint, this thing is a train wreck. Throw in the two warring sides bringing their arguments here from who-knows-what forum and the zd stuff, and you get a 40-pager.

Jerry needs a TOS. Don't ever buy without asking about TOS's, viewers.

 

[laterob]

*satisfied, right?

 

[hhmoore]

you get a 40-pager

Crap - we're only on page 11. Guess there's still more fun to be had...I want to play, but I'm content to wait for news of a completed refund. I really hope people aren't going to beat this horse nonstop until then - I don't know if I'll be able to contain myself.

 

[WebSlave]

So I should not want to read relative information on here. I thought this is for me to make decisions. I said the site works sometimes. I am happy they reached a conclusion. It's all the opinions from people that don't know either of them and tell people what they should do about a deal.

When you get a chance, look up the definition of "peer pressure", and see how that might apply here. The BOI was not made primarily for lurkers and people afraid of expressing their opinions. It was DESIGNED with viewers' ACTIVE participation in mind. Unless a substantial number of people DO chime in with their opinions of what has transpired, how else will the participants come to realize the thinness of the ice they are walking on without that kind of feedback? Without that feedback, how would anyone ever realize that perhaps their stance in a situation is not the best choice they could have made, ALL things considered?

And yes, I do have to defend this site when it becomes apparent that someone appears to not have a clue about what makes it work and seems to be taking pains to belittle that design by me and it's implementation by our members. Which, as I have mentioned before, is not appropriate within this forum, and is suitable fare only in the Feedback Forum. As such, I will consider anyone continuing along those lines in this thread as having formally asked to be banned from here. Quite frankly, I'm just tired of hearing people who have NEVER tried to do something like this themselves telling me HOW it should be done.

 

[Snake-Queen]

I don't know either of them. I am wondering why a 7-week or so delay from when Stu told Jerry he wasn't satisfied until he can expect his refund? How come nobody is asking about the slow repayment? Never spend the money until you know the customer is right, right?

From the (simpler) transaction standpoint, this thing is a train wreck. Throw in the two warring sides bringing their arguments here from who-knows-what forum and the zd stuff, and you get a 40-pager.

Jerry needs a TOS. Don't ever buy without asking about TOS's, viewers.

I have to agree, why would you not have the money? Jerry knew 2 weeks into Stu having the snakes that he wasn't happy with them. The logical thing to do, would have been to talk to Stu and find a resolution, quickly for the sake of the snakes and both parties.

Crap - we're only on page 11. Guess there's still more fun to be had...I want to play, but I'm content to wait for news of a completed refund. I really hope people aren't going to beat this horse nonstop until then - I don't know if I'll be able to contain myself.

That is a very good possibility... 3-4 weeks is a long time to wait for the outcome.

Jerry, for those that are also concerned for the snakes, please update us with their progress. Not here, but in the general snake forum (Kingsnakes & Milksnakes Discussion Forum). It would be nice to know if the snakes fully recover, sad if they don't.

 

[Bobby O]

Summary: Part III- Just to keep everyone focused

Summary:

1) Stu paid $3100 for a group of baby zonatas. Stu is NOT A NOVICE when it comes to colubrid husbandry/breeding (40 years experience with an excellent reputation).
2) Within two weeks, they start showing symptoms of "zonata disease." Stu wanted to return the animals and get his money back at that time and Jerry refused and wanted him to work with the snakes.
3) Animals progressively got worse/did not improve. Jerry offered Stu to return the snakes so he can work with them with no mention of a refund.
4) Stu refused, not trusting he will ever see a cent from Jerry or the snakes ever again.
5) Jerry started getting personally derogatory at Stu using expletives.
6) Stu refused to communicate with him because of his derogatory remarks and wanted an opinion on the other site about zonata disease.
7) Other sites moderator who is a friend of Jerry's selectively deletes any negative comments about the transaction.
8) Stu brings this issue to BOI.
9) Fast forward 42 pages of character history/witnesses and testimonials, endless rants/name calling, and opinions.
10) Jerry is supposedly refunding Stu's money but has not done so.

Please refund his money so we can all go back to our lives.

 

[Bobby O]

What I've learnt from this BOI

Since I prolly spent way too much time on this BOI thread I'd like to reflect on what I learnt.

1) Unfortunately, the BOI is still needed for the commercial reptile industry. We can all thank Rich for bringing about the BOI. It has cleaned up the commercial reptile industry tremendously.

2) Seems to that people who have the same opinion are taking the same sides (not surprisingly). This is great for me personally, because now I know not only to avoid the seller in this particular case, but to avoid buying from those few people who side with him. Please keep it going!

 

[Jeff Schofield]

Stu

Stu, to follow up on my first post in this thread and relate it to recent ones on husbandry: Things that cause problems like this in snakes arent something you can take a pic of and put on the internet,der. They are simply too small. And while we can yell back and forth about proof vs not having a test....had it occured to you to both(Jerry and Stu) to call a lab and have them come out and take random swabs of "clean" and "dirty" caging as well as possibly fecals and other tests to determine if there are conditions that exist in 1 place and not the other? Like I referenced a while ago(before I got sidetracked having to defend myself)it could be that you cages while visibly clean could harbor microbes that could be picked up with a swab, grown in a lab, and help in the definition and possible "cure" of said disease. Having someone pipe in that you are only 20 minutes away from Ft Worth, I'm betting they have such a lab. Call a food processor and find one that has HACCP control and ask what lab they use. It could eliminate possibilities and cut both of your quarantining time. Sadly now BOTH of you have this problem in your collections, how you deal with the problem(not this thread)will go a long way in determining professionalism.

 

[StuTennyson]

Just an after thought. Not sure why I didn't think of this sooner. Here is a pic of a 5th neonate from the same clutch, received the same time and kept in exactly the same conditions that so far has not exhibited the condition.

 

[StuTennyson]

Stu, to follow up on my first post in this thread and relate it to recent ones on husbandry: Things that cause problems like this in snakes arent something you can take a pic of and put on the internet,der. They are simply too small. And while we can yell back and forth about proof vs not having a test....had it occured to you to both(Jerry and Stu) to call a lab and have them come out and take random swabs of "clean" and "dirty" caging as well as possibly fecals and other tests to determine if there are conditions that exist in 1 place and not the other? Like I referenced a while ago(before I got sidetracked having to defend myself)it could be that you cages while visibly clean could harbor microbes that could be picked up with a swab, grown in a lab, and help in the definition and possible "cure" of said disease. Having someone pipe in that you are only 20 minutes away from Ft Worth, I'm betting they have such a lab. Call a food processor and find one that has HACCP control and ask what lab they use. It could eliminate possibilities and cut both of your quarantining time. Sadly now BOTH of you have this problem in your collections, how you deal with the problem(not this thread)will go a long way in determining professionalism.

Jeff-Your suggestions sound very interesting and would make for a great scientific research study however that is not the point. I really have no desire to spend time and money researching this as it is only affecting 4 snakes in my collection. I would rather just get rid of the 4 snakes. The point to me is that I have snakes I am not happy with and just want a refund. That is all. Stu

 

[StuTennyson]

Good for Jerry for agreeing to a full refund. And good for Stu too! A lot can happen in two weeks to a delicate reptile. By the way, since when is Azle considered "rural Texas"? It's only 20 minutes from Fort Worth!

Hi Kelli-I actually live closer to Boyd. It's just an Azle post office that handles the mail. You are welcome to come visit me any time and see for yourself where I live. Stu

 

[Jeff Schofield]

Jeff-Your suggestions sound very interesting and would make for a great scientific research study however that is not the point. I really have no desire to spend time and money researching this as it is only affecting 4 snakes in my collection. I would rather just get rid of the 4 snakes. The point to me is that I have snakes I am not happy with and just want a refund. That is all. Stu

Stu, while I hear you on cost, at what point is the cause and the cure cost-effective for this Zonata community? You have a fresh case study, call and get a quote from a lab and pass the hat throughout the community. WIth the results maybe a enterprising grad student interested in Zonata can apply for a grant to study the problem and gradually make the way toward a definition. Without SOMEONE doing this, this problem will happen again and again. You, Jerry, and a whole bunch of people are INVESTED in this. YOU are the ones with the most to gain($$)by a cure being found. It generally costs nothing to ask, and if the samples cost $500....divide that by the piece of mind for every Zonata sale. Or dont and know that someone else might and this community can look back and decide how to treat this....because thats what they do.