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Bad Guy Bruce Cowan - AKA - Nyteshade

deborahbroadus said:
The pictures on the ad where you purchased the animal are bothering me...I can't seem to find any indications (in the picture) that it's the correct morph. I looked and found this one http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294949 can you tell me if your animal at least looks like this (in this ad picture) in person?

You are certain it's an Enchi?

**just a thought that is plaguing me.
Click to expand...

I wondered that, too, Deb. The snake in the original ad doesn't look much like an enchi, but the pictures are so bad, it's really hard to tell for sure.

Mushead said:
I was thinking the same thing it appears to be a nice banded normal. Did the OP realize he bought an expensive normal and is trying to cover his tracks?
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Holy cow, are you serious? Why would the OP need to "cover his tracks" about anything?? If he "realized he bought a normal," he'd be raising the roof about that as well, and have a MUCH stronger ground for demanding his money back than a serious illness and/or injury that wasn't discovered immediately on opening the box. What "tracks" are you trying to insinuate need covering by the OP?
 
"Covering his tracks" isn't the term I should have used. He may have realized that the animal wasn't what it was supposed to be and didn't want to seem foolish for buying something it wasn't. I have never seen an animal with mouth rot before, but according to that vet report it says " severe mouth rot " from what I've read online it says in early stages the mouth is agape. If this was severe how could he not see it upon arrival? When I get a new snake I go over it thoroughly. Again having never seen it personally idk?
 
Mushead said:
"Covering his tracks" isn't the term I should have used. He may have realized that the animal wasn't what it was supposed to be and didn't want to seem foolish for buying something it wasn't. I have never seen an animal with mouth rot before, but according to that vet report it says " severe mouth rot " from what I've read online it says in early stages the mouth is agape. If this was severe how could he not see it upon arrival? When I get a new snake I go over it thoroughly. Again having never seen it personally idk?
Click to expand...

Well, seeing as how Ted has been very open with the fact that he didn't examine the animal as thoroughly as you or I might have, as well as other mistakes he's made....he doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who would be too embarrassed to admit he didn't recognize a morph and therefore make up a bunch of other stories to get his money back. That's about the least likeliest scenario I've heard in this thread.

Thing is...none of us have seen the animal. None of us can ever know anything more about it than what those directly involved share with us here. All we can do (and all we should do...as this is specifically what the BOI is here for) is take the information given and make our own assessments on whether or not we would want to do business with the parties involved.

If you (a generic "you" and not directed specifically at the person I've quoted) think Ted is backpeddling, having buyer's remorse, covering up some other worse embarrassment...then by all means, give Nyteshade your business and maybe it will all turn out fine. Maybe not. But at least you'll have weighed the evidence given and made the choice yourself.
 
That is true it's not like Ted doesn't have any vet paperwork to back his claim up. I guess I just got hung up on the fact that animal came in and the problems weren't noticed right away. Not the fact to warn others about the seller
 
I had thought about this as well it not being the correct morph if any at all. I was willing to take that chance. If not I have a very pretty hot looking female. I was willing to take the risk. She has brightened up as time has passed. I guess I would not really know if she is until I breed her and at this time I don't think I would do that.
It is true ya get what ya pay for and I have that at my place now I guess and a great lesson for me and all who read to learn. Don't try to cut corners. I would have has no problems after 2 years of getting this girl up to weight and then finding out just a normal. Maybe a little miffed but willing to chance it. I personally vowed to the family no more buying unless we all agree and it is from people I trust. I know oldest rule in the book huh.. I am not trying to get my money back anymore because I know he won't pay anything. I have moved on and figured it was a good lesson and being from the school of hard knocks I guess it was mine to learn. I will admit many faults on my end cause there are many. But to get down to brass tax I would not ever sell or trade or give a snake away in this condition. If the snake like a spider has issues I would be the first to say so. I only posted this not to really bash this kid but to let others know to be warned of his ways and lack of quarantine. Does this make me look the fool.. Sure but willing to put it out as a learning tool for all.
Ted Adams
 
Rock Star Reptile said:
I had thought about this as well it not being the correct morph if any at all. I was willing to take that chance. If not I have a very pretty hot looking female. I was willing to take the risk. She has brightened up as time has passed. I guess I would not really know if she is until I breed her and at this time I don't think I would do that.
It is true ya get what ya pay for and I have that at my place now I guess and a great lesson for me and all who read to learn. Don't try to cut corners. I would have has no problems after 2 years of getting this girl up to weight and then finding out just a normal. Maybe a little miffed but willing to chance it. I personally vowed to the family no more buying unless we all agree and it is from people I trust. I know oldest rule in the book huh.. I am not trying to get my money back anymore because I know he won't pay anything. I have moved on and figured it was a good lesson and being from the school of hard knocks I guess it was mine to learn. I will admit many faults on my end cause there are many. But to get down to brass tax I would not ever sell or trade or give a snake away in this condition. If the snake like a spider has issues I would be the first to say so. I only posted this not to really bash this kid but to let others know to be warned of his ways and lack of quarantine. Does this make me look the fool.. Sure but willing to put it out as a learning tool for all.
Ted Adams
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying. The decision is yours. (IMO) There's not enough hard evidence as it stands, but the seller's emails did not impress me (or I assume any) as being from an honest man. So, personally...I'll avoid the seller and whomever he's doing business with on general principles. However, this could go farther if that was, in fact, the wrong morph.

This leads to the fact that while Judy is correct in how the logic would play out in terms of your goals, it's also possible that knowing that an animal was sold under incorrect genes would influence the "Big Breeder" that the seller claimed was going to be working with the him to have second thoughts.

Like I said, it was extremely difficult to identify that animal simply from the Ads that the seller posted. :shrug01:
 
So I go to get the video.. and I find this. So needless to say no video. :( Poor girl thought she would pull through. :censored:
 

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Wilomn said:
ms. broadus and ms. hollander, do either of you have any experience, personally, with advanced RI infections? If so, how many and with what species?

I ask only to determine the amount of credibility to grant your diagnosis of a snake you've never seen.
Click to expand...

I don't think I missed the answers to my question. Two of the most prolific, two of the most opinionated posters on this site, two of the people who, to my knowledge, no longer even keep snakes anymore after having kept them in very small numbers for a very short period of time, refuse to answer a very simple question about their knowledge.

Shades of mr. clark it would seem.

I'm all for people who know posting their knowledge. I'm all for people with experience sharing it. I'm sort of confused by people with no knowledge and no experience making statements that could easily be misconstrued as them, the statement makers, actually having knowledge and/or experience in something, in this instance, they seem to patently lack.

Is this true ladies? Do you truly lack any personal experience with RIs in animals that are in shed? But but but, you have posted as if you were experts in the recognition and treatment of this exact problem.

I guess, as this snake has proven quite well, that appearances can be very deceiving. Sort of like people, huh?
 
Rock Star Reptile said:
So I go to get the video.. and I find this. So needless to say no video. :( Poor girl thought she would pull through. :censored:
Click to expand...

Oh, my! I am really sorry. Are you going to have a necropsy done, just for safety's sake?

I used Stahl the first and only time I had an animal die of suspicious causes and they are quite reasonable. Time if of essence, in getting the animal to them.

If I were thinking of hiring someone who was involved in selling that kind of animal..I would want to know. It's hard enough getting good help.
 
deborahbroadus said:
Oh, my! I am really sorry. Are you going to have a necropsy done, just for safety's sake?

I used Stahl the first and only time I had an animal die of suspicious causes and they are quite reasonable. Time if of essence, in getting the animal to them.

If I were thinking of hiring someone who was involved in selling that kind of animal..I would want to know. It's hard enough getting good help.
Click to expand...

I wish i had the money and time to do that. It is easy to say to have one done but when it comes down to putting more money on this poor girl I refuse. I know some might think this is crazy but I kinda figured it would turn out like this.
This is why I say to QUARTINE!!!! 3 months from a trusted and I mean trusted breeder and 6 months from others. I shudder what could have happened.
With all the posts before and such I just really wished for the best for the lil girl. This is my second baby lost ever. My first didn't make it out of the egg.
I thank you for the well wishes.
Ted Adams
 
Rock Star Reptile said:
I wish i had the money and time to do that. It is easy to say to have one done but when it comes down to putting more money on this poor girl I refuse. I know some might think this is crazy but I kinda figured it would turn out like this.
This is why I say to QUARTINE!!!! 3 months from a trusted and I mean trusted breeder and 6 months from others. I shudder what could have happened.
With all the posts before and such I just really wished for the best for the lil girl. This is my second baby lost ever. My first didn't make it out of the egg.
I thank you for the well wishes.
Ted Adams
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I understand. We do what we have to.:thumbsup:

I hope he doesn't get a chance to do this again. (NOT playing a guilt trip game, just saying). :)
 
Just to update this. Bruce now has an ad stating that the snake in this thread developed it's RI "in shipping from texas to washington state". I'm no vet, but I do believe it takes more that 24 hours for an RI to develop. Assuming of course he over nighted the snake and didn't ship via ground. (sarc) here's the ad http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1437509#post1437509
 
Tom Pecanic said:
Sorry if I skipped over it.... But, that isn't even an Enchi? Is it just me? And, those boas look horribly thin!
Click to expand...

It's not just you. That was voiced by a couple of people (Enchi question), and no real identification was ever made, then the snake turned up dead. I do think and believe that that snake died too soon for it to be the buyers fault.

I know nothing about Boas...but I thought the two in the cage were small, and I was hoping it wasn't a male and female...again... know nothing about boas.:shrug01:
 
The part where i tried to cooperate is not in there nor is the aggressive part where you threatened to take me to court and ruin me and take everything i had. The fact that i had not seen this images until someone posted this link for me to follow is one to be wondered about. I never received pictures nor proof that it was indeed the snake that i sent you that had the issues. Had the above mentioned things been done the transaction would have been reversed
 
as for the boas they are not even adults yet. they are still young and eat every week on saturday same as my pythons.
 
DesertRat73 said:
I'm no vet, but I do believe it takes more that 24 hours for an RI to develop.
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I shipped a BRB overnight to a lady, it developed an RI during that time (less than 24 hrs) - sometimes the simple stress from shipping can bring those underlying issues to the surface. Not saying that's what happened here, but I wanted to point out that it's not unreasonable for an animal to develop a sudden RI after being shipped.
 
DesertRat73 said:
Just to update this. Bruce now has an ad stating that the snake in this thread developed it's RI "in shipping from texas to washington state". I'm no vet, but I do believe it takes more that 24 hours for an RI to develop. Assuming of course he over nighted the snake and didn't ship via ground. (sarc) here's the ad http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1437509#post1437509
Click to expand...
1) Before anybody comments about the ad being changed, and the statement mentioned above being removed, he changed the ad after I posted that he couldn't talk about the BOI issue in the classifieds (after which I removed my post).
2) I have received numerous snakes over the years that showed varying degrees of respiratory symptoms on arrival - some were minimal, but developed over days...and I am of the mind that those were triggered during shipping. Others were obviously more progressed, and I was convinced that thereThe were symptoms prior to shipping (regardless of whether the seller noticed them).
3) I don't remember all the details of this, and I only skimmed some of it this afternoon after communicating with the seller about his current ad...but I feel that the buyer was negligent in not examining the snake in a timely manner.
4) Frankly, some of the statements attributed to the vet seem far enough off that I have a hard time accepting the rest at face value.

I'll have to go back and look for the seller's responses, and how he handled the situation. I'll also have to look into Tom's statement that it isn't an enchi. (on my phone, and didn't bother looking for pics when I saw his post)

This was, by the buyer's statement, the seller's first time shipping. Crap - have to leave for work....I'll revisit this later.
 
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