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Falys..where to draw the line???

YANKFANTHOM said:
Yeah its a Raiden/Nala boy. He's my boy Zero who I've posted pics up on the forums before. I don't see how this is not a Faly. :D
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More people should have faly6s that look like that guy... theres so much B.S. over falys an most of the BS is from ones that cant produce a real faly.

That email was the first one an the responce i got from jim it totaly blew any respect i could have for someone whos supposedly bred so many chams an seen so many. it seems alot of jims stuff turns out looking odd or not what people expect..
 
Texas Ranger said:
Wow that's not cool at all a big time breeder saying yeah I sold you a ambanja but he looks faly and if I had his sisters I would breed and sell them as faly... That is so not cool and the reason so many get screwed getting this locale....
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Yeah it blew my mind that was his responce, but tehn after talkin to people seems it happens alot when ya get stuff from jim ive yet to see a "flay" jims produced ive seen alot of cross lookin chams.
 
Texas Ranger said:
Wow that's not cool at all a big time breeder saying yeah I sold you a ambanja but he looks faly and if I had his sisters I would breed and sell them as faly... That is so not cool and the reason so many get screwed getting this locale....
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Your right I think the ethics in most of the large breeders in the US and Canada leave a lot to be desired. If this locale stays clean it will be through small hobbyists and not through the bigger breeders that are more about the money.
 
The best we all can do is know who's got the good stuff and continue trying to make the breed better. I haven't been doing this as long as some but I do know what to look for and what most of us have is what I want my Faly to look like.
 
YANKFANTHOM said:
The best we all can do is know who's got the good stuff and continue trying to make the breed better. I haven't been doing this as long as some but I do know what to look for and what most of us have is what I want my Faly to look like.
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Rite on and others know what to look for also, the ones makin the big stink about it are the ones with the crosses or questionable ones that juat dont wanna admit it.. They saw the name faly an the cheap prices an jumped.. all my falys i paid 500-750 apiece for and noone was callin them crosses bk then that i saw an now allasudden because i have em there crosses coming from the guy i know sells crosses knowingly?
 
I almost never use Fauna anymore, so thanks for directing me here. I must say the Faly they were arguing over in my thread is a perfect representation of a Nosy Faly. He is almost 100% white and covered in red rain. His baby blues are now popping too. I have bought faly after faly from large scale, respectable, breeders and their falys have been nothing close. Rob's faly is perfect looking. If they were calling him an Ambanja, I seriously worry about what they are selling. I mean Ambanja really? How many ambanjas are white with red rain all over them. In my experience ambanjas have a large rostral process and Robs faly has nothing of the sort. What a shame, they deleted the post and I missed it. I will make a new thread when I get the perfect photo. :ack2:
 
tkilgour said:
I almost never use Fauna anymore, so thanks for directing me here. I must say the Faly they were arguing over in my thread is a perfect representation of a Nosy Faly. He is almost 100% white and covered in red rain. His baby blues are now popping too. I have bought faly after faly from large scale, respectable, breeders and their falys have been nothing close. Rob's faly is perfect looking. If they were calling him an Ambanja, I seriously worry about what they are selling. I mean Ambanja really? How many ambanjas are white with red rain all over them. In my experience ambanjas have a large rostral process and Robs faly has nothing of the sort. What a shame, they deleted the post and I missed it. I will make a new thread when I get the perfect photo. :ack2:
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Honestly I saw nothing that would say other than Faly. Still young and lots of coloring up to do as well. Like I said above we all know what we have and what people want.
 
On the topic of drawing the line, do you guys believe in allowing some wiggle room for the natural genetics of the locale to vary a bit? Like one that's a lot more blue with red rain, or more yellow on the face, etc. If all other locales have variety within it, naturally, what do you guys think are the outer limits of the bell curve for this locale?

Say, if white, red, and blue, are the bulk of normal for this locale, what variation - if any- do you guys allow and still consider the animal a faly?
 
Olimpia said:
On the topic of drawing the line, do you guys believe in allowing some wiggle room for the natural genetics of the locale to vary a bit? Like one that's a lot more blue with red rain, or more yellow on the face, etc. If all other locales have variety within it, naturally, what do you guys think are the outer limits of the bell curve for this locale?

Say, if white, red, and blue, are the bulk of normal for this locale, what variation - if any- do you guys allow and still consider the animal a faly?
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There most certainly is variation. The thing is many that are being passed off as pure have less red in them than a lot of Nosy Be's have. They have the dark rich blues of Ambanja's or rainbow colors like ambilobe's. These chams are obviously crossed. Now Tom's baby from Rob's recent Kush clutches has more red then my guy and mine has more blues but the blues are a greenish blue and the animal will go from aqua to a deeper green color. The red rain goes from red to black in color. Many CB animals loose the yellow in there cheeks almost all together and even WC after sheds will have much less of the yellow in the face. We have to contribute that to diet because it will change in the same animal. You can look at my WC that won the photo contest this month and see all the yellow, after this past shed it's much more subtle and the skin that came off is YELLOW. Also when the animal fires up you should be able to visibly see some white body appearing and the striping of the bars get more defined.

What is everyone's thoughts on these descriptions?
 
Olimpia said:
On the topic of drawing the line, do you guys believe in allowing some wiggle room for the natural genetics of the locale to vary a bit? Like one that's a lot more blue with red rain, or more yellow on the face, etc. If all other locales have variety within it, naturally, what do you guys think are the outer limits of the bell curve for this locale?

Say, if white, red, and blue, are the bulk of normal for this locale, what variation - if any- do you guys allow and still consider the animal a faly?
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yes olimpia there is wiggle room but some theres no diff between them and a nosy be or the extreame case a faly thats got yellow an orange in its body, even alittle yellow in the body a be ok as long as it isnt overpowering neon yellow like was the case in some "falys" i recieved an then was accused of switching out.. A few years ago we had this debate when a green faly showed up"watermelon" some people had a cow "i wasnt one" i liked watermelon an he looked faly to me but now we have big breeders sellin falys that just arnt falys and at some point someones gotta say something i did ive taken alot of heat for it but all ive said is true.
 
LIke ive said its the peanut gallery tryen get me banned over there notice no comments on him breeding an knowingly sellin crosses no pics nothing but alot of hot air...
 
Crazy I missed all this yesterday, but I am kind of glad I did. Either way, I am very happy with this Faly Rob sent me. It is 100% Faly, no doubt about it.

I will also stick up for Jim too. I have purchased thousands of dollars in chameleons from Jim and all were exactly what I wanted. I will bet that Jim has the most chameleons of anyone here in the states. I have never purchased any of his falys because they always sold out too quickly. However, my personal experiences with Jim he has always been honest and sent very healthy animals.
 
After prodding he said my animals photos were nice looking...not the best he had seen but healthy....LMAO You just can not honestly say they are not Faly!!!
 
Warning: general discussion is fine but the moment you all start naming names, this wanders into BOI territory, do not repost emails or 'call out' specific names in a discussion thread.
 
an thats fine tom i deat with jim an got a crosss then got told to breed that cross an a pure faly that to me is a crook an i careless how many crosses hes bred an sold ill never buy one..
 
He said it had been 6-7 years since he had been on here...and yet his last active date was 12-07-2008 so a little over 3 years...and from what I can find it doesn't look like he is banned but not sure if that shows on his profile.
 
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