Bad Guy Andrew Potts- I want my money back

[ShadowAceD]

Ok well I am just putting my 2 cents in. not sticking up for either party.

So your saying the heat has no way to escape the box. Yet it can get in the box. If heat can get in then heat can get out. I have shipped things to places in the 80's with heat packs and everything turned out fine. Last night I dropped a package off here in toledo, ohio where it was easily 65-70 degrees and shipped it to california where it was like 80-83 today. Snakes got there and they were actually under 80 degrees yet the outside temp was above 80. Kinda weird how that happens huh. If it is a well insulated box. The temps outside shouldn't matter much. As it is like a cooler. Keeps things cold or keeps things hot. Now it will effect it in a small manner. But not enough to kill it. Plus heat packs only get 84 degrees. So your telling me 80 degree temperatures are going to make an 84 degree heat pack warmer. I think not. Not saying the heat didn't kill the animal. It very well might have. But It is not that hot to make the heat pack heat up.

The heat pack I am holding in my hand, a UniHeat, says it averages 100 degrees. And that's one.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Andrew - what type of pictures did he attach? Are there any where you can see your address?

Gotta' zoom in really close with good eyes to see it.

 

[leftycrane]

I stand corrected. I'm nothing more than a piece of feces and will always be. I'm scum and all I can hope to be in life is pond scum. In this case I'm not budging one centimeter. Kevin is as guilty as the others, end of discussion. Andrew

PS Like several people have said, take me to court.

Yikes. Someone just showed their true colors. Refusing to be in the wrong and make amends for an error. Prob just made it to the top of a whole lot of people's "do not buy from list".

 

[laterob]

No, Andrew...I am sorry. He said he sent you pictures and a tracking number. I was wondering if he took any pictures of the box he sent back to you, to see if there was a zip code error or something.

I am still stuck on him saying that only 2 of 4 things he sent made it to you, Andrew. Do you have a weird address? What ever happened with the FedEx inquiry?

I was thinking that since you said 'no snake, no refund' he may have wrongly addressed the box.....

 

[weird_science04]

I don't post on the BOI very often. Andrew you have some beautiful animals and they definitely are top notch. I don't know anyone really involved. I don't know anything about the 3 men involved in purchasing this snake and I only know that Andrew posts on RTB to show off his beautiful aztecs.

I completely agree with Diem and Chris Canada-Smith on this.

The reality is, they purchased a snake that was worth more than my husband's car is worth. That snake has a hefty price tag on it and with this economy, this price tag should not be taken lightly.

Now, the snake is dead. While speculation leans towards a shipping error, you will never get your proof you want of how that snake actually died. Is it a shame? Yes. But you will never actually know for sure exactly what caused that snakes death.

While the OP and the other 2 have not shown themselves in the best manner to you, the reality stands that you have a bad guy post now. Inside the bad guy post, shows that you acknowledge this sale, you acknowledge the snake is yours that is dead, Diem shows the timeline of the pictures to show that the pictures were indeed taken the day of the snake's arrival, Diem also does more detective work to show that the temperatures were too high for 2 heat packs and it could have just been an honest error, and this post is showing that you are really, really, really hesitant about refunding this guy his money.

For reputation sakes, your snakes cost way too much money for the person who does not know you to invest in, if they feel you will not be willing to refund the money if something happens during transit. Think about your future. I am not saying no one will ever purchase from you because that is not the case. However, more and more people are selling aztecs now and with more people selling them, if someone had the slightest hesitancy on buying from you over this thread, then they will go elsewhere.

It is not like someone will say, "Well, this snake only costs $150, so if something bad happens during transit, I will only be out $150." The person will say, "Wow, that snake costs $10,000 and if something happens during transit, will I get my money back? Hmm, this person is selling a similar snake for $6,000 and I have more faith in getting my money back if something bad happens from them."

I am sorry this is happening but reality sits that you are the one that can set this right. You are the one that can show off how awesome you are when something doesn't go as planned.

You have to make your choices and other people will be the judge on what is right and wrong. Unfortunately, you are caught in the middle of this.

Personally, I would refund the guy his money. I would not send another snake because of the threats and blackmail attempt.

Good luck in the decision you make.

Star

 

[AbsoluteApril]

20/40 hr standard shipping heat packs do state that they can reach 100. Typically, and the way they are supposed to work from my understanding, is that each pack will raise the temperature inside the box 10 degrees, so 2 heat packs means the temps would be 20 degree higher than ambient temp.

I see lots of shady behaviour here but I am also of the opinion that it would appear the boa did arrive DOA.

 

[Robert Potts]

The heat pack I am holding in my hand, a UniHeat, says it averages 100 degrees. And that's one.

I've already explained several times how I packed the shipment but it's still not a 100% grantee the boa would have arrived dead. I'm saying the people who received it would have no problem killing the snake because they think I'm not treating them fair. As I said before I could have shipped those packages to Sean Griffith's address when I thought I was shipping to Kevin Bailey. If I did ship to Sean's address then things get bad because Sean dislikes me and knowing what I know about him now he would easily kill the boa. In an e-mail I posted earlier he gives me grief because I won't give him a breeder discount which he's not entitled too. In a previous e-mail Kevin states he's not a partner but yes he allows Sean to use his name to intimate the blackmail e-mail. I forwarded Sean's blackmail e-mail the day I received it and then a few days later he sends me an e-mail to inform him if Sean is using his name. I resend the Blackmail e-mail from Sean to Kevin and no responce. Like I said, have Kevin produce one e-mail where he condemns the actions of these two or has even a single critical word. Kevin's as guilty as the others. Andrew

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

I'll say it.. You killed a $4500 snake. Personally, I wouldn't deal with you just for asking for the body back.. Just me though. I've done business with Sean, it was a pleasurable experience. I sold and shipped him a gravid/loaded female boa 6-8 yrs ago. He could have drummed up anything to pack me; but he didn't! And kudos for 'manning up' and apologizing Sean!

I've already explained several times how I packed the shipment but it's still not a 100% grantee the boa would have arrived dead. I'm saying the people who received it would have no problem killing the snake because they think I'm not treating them fair. As I said before I could have shipped those packages to Sean Griffith's address when I thought I was shipping to Kevin Bailey. If I did ship to Sean's address then things get bad because Sean dislikes me and knowing what I know about him now he would easily kill the boa. In an e-mail I posted earlier he gives me grief because I won't give him a breeder discount which he's not entitled too. In a previous e-mail Kevin states he's not a partner but yes he allows Sean to use his name to intimate the blackmail e-mail. I forwarded Sean's blackmail e-mail the day I received it and then a few days later he sends me an e-mail to inform him if Sean is using his name. I resend the Blackmail e-mail from Sean to Kevin and no responce. Like I said, have Kevin produce one e-mail where he condemns the actions of these two or has even a single critical word. Kevin's as guilty as the others. Andrew

 

[reptilebaby]

You killed the snake Andrew. you owe him a refund, and Kevin should NOT have to take you to court to get it. You know very well all the fees involved in that, and few people actually can follow through with taking a person to court.

I think you've just royally trashed your reputation.

 

[Robert Potts]

I'll say it.. You killed a $4500 snake. Personally, I wouldn't deal with you just for asking for the body back.. Just me though. I've done business with Sean, it was a pleasurable experience. I sold and shipped him a gravid/loaded female boa 6-8 yrs ago. He could have drummed up anything to pack me; but he didn't! And kudos for 'manning up' and apologizing Sean!

Glad to know your will do business with breeders who will engage in blackmail. Andrew

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Glad to know your will do business with breeders who will engage in blackmail. Andrew

Nah.. He was pissed. I understand it. You don't.. It's a small world Andrew.. They're all watching YOU now. It sucks, I know it, it's why I've never killed a snake in transit; I freak out over it! Honestly, I'd have had a funky ice cube in plastic in a 80 to 80 degree shipment. That's how bad you messed up!

 

[HerpHobbiest]

I heard about this the day it happen...

Sean was under the impression that you intentionally send a dead snake to maybe pull an insurance claim... Was that the reason you wanted the dead snake?

It looks dead in the pictures!

Sean was pretty upset because his partner Kevin spent a considerable amount of money, and obviously had big plans for this Hytec, Parahet...

I must have missed the "Black Mail" email... Was Sean asking for a better Hytec, ParaHet and $10,000.00 for sending him a dead snake?

I think we all agree that evidence shows the Hytec, ParaHet was DOA... Regardless if the snake could maybe made it OK... The facts are that the snake was shipped with wrong shipping classification, delaying delivery... The fact that two heat packs were used when they were not needed... And, the fact is that the Hytec, ParaHet arrived dead...

If you have the money, you should refund the money...
If you have another male Hytec, ParaHet, that is of acceptable quality to Kevin... Send it to him properly shipped, and properly packed...
If you do not have a Male Hytec, ParaHet, that is of acceptable quality to Kevin... Send a more valuable animal that is acceptable to Kevin... Send it to him properly shipped, and properly packed...

The option to keep/steal Kevin's money, will comeback to bite you in the

Just the idea of keeping/stealing Kevin's money could seriously affect your positive rating... Right now, It does not make you look all that good.

I hope you can resolve this in a civilized manner... Good luck to you all!

 

[Show Me]

I do think it's would probably be in your best interest to give a refund since the snake was sent in warmer temps with two heat packs, that could have caused the snakes death however since extortion was thrown into the equation...I would go after them criminally. You got the evidence to pursue this and I feel that the judge will prosecute and then they get felony charges. Which is what they deserve. You also may have a case in civil court.

 

[JCCS]

Luis, don't you have your own thread to pay attention to? It's nice of you to show back up after your leave of absence though.

Back to the main topic. Andrew, you've carved out a good reputation for yourself in this hobby. Don't let some little punks trying to pull the wool over your eyes make you ruin all of your hard work.

You screwed up with the shipping, I think that's pretty plain to see. Things happen and it sucks. Refund the guy's money, go talk to a lawyer and see what legal recourse can be pursued and tack these guy's backsides to the wall.

Chris

 

[Show Me]

Nah.. He was pissed. I understand it. You don't.. It's a small world Andrew.. They're all watching YOU now. It sucks, I know it, it's why I've never killed a snake in transit; I freak out over it! Honestly, I'd have had a funky ice cube in plastic in a 80 to 80 degree shipment. That's how bad you messed up!

He's not the only one who messed up. I rather do business with someone who accidentally sends a snake with to many heat packs than a guy that preys on people using blackmail. He was pissed!? Nice excuse, more like trying to scam.

 

[ShadowAceD]

He's not the only one who messed up. I rather do business with someone who accidentally sends a snake with to many heat packs than a guy that preys on people using blackmail. He was pissed!? Nice excuse, more like trying to scam.

Well, that someone is holding someone else's money hostage because of a bruised ego, so ... both are people to avoid, really.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Peer pressure and anger are a poor mix. Does it excuse it? No. But it is what it is.

 

[Show Me]

Well, that someone is holding someone else's money hostage because of a bruised ego, so ... both are people to avoid, really.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Peer pressure and anger are a poor mix. Does it excuse it? No. But it is what it is.

I've been in situations were I felt I was in the right to get a full refund and sure I cussed them out and told my story but I would never use blackmail to try and get a waaaaaay better deal. That's a scam and illegal.

 

[ShadowAceD]

I've been in situations were I felt I was in the right to get a full refund and sure I cussed them out and told my story but I would never use blackmail to try and get a waaaaaay better deal. That's a scam and illegal.

Well that's good, but it still doesn't justify not sending someone THEIR money back when you failed to fulfill your end of a deal. THAT is not exactly credible.

 

[David Reid]

Andrew, you have a bad guy post now. Most people who are thinking about doing business with you will see it, and the people who are serious, will open the link and read the thread. It is only like 4 pages long now, easy to read and quickly get to the end, to see how the situation was resolved. It is up to you, how this thread ends, and it is up to you to make sure it does not turn into a 50 pager that nobody will read, and everyone will assume, you ARE a bad guy.

The two issues are both criminal and civil, two totally seperate matters. If they threatened you or black mailed you, that is a criminal offence in some States. If you are really upset about it, call the cops in their location, and foreward the police the emails. If you do not do this, how upset are you, and it looks like you are using it as an excuse to not do the right thing. The second thing, a dead snake that you shipped, and you have the resposibility of getting it there alive, is a civil matter. They sue you, they bad mouth you everywhere, you threaten to sue for "Liable." We have seen this scenario play out many times here.

If I was you, I would tell them they get another male Boa, same morph they originally purchased. Ship it properly this time, and make them open it with a video camera rolling. There are a lot of what if's, and he said, she said, but the bottom line, take away all the BS, you need to get them a snake, alive and well, or send them their money back. Never do business with them again, tell all your Boa friends to black ball them, do whatever you need to do, but do it AFTER you send them another snake, and they get it alive.

 

[DesertRat73]

Andrew, a lot of people are trying to help you save your reputation here, you should think about listening to them. You have Sean's confession...

Andrew,

I just wanted to say the blackmailing was not justified. I got really upset when I heard of the hytec parahet transaction going southword bound, and shot you a bunch of hate stuff. It was not well deserved..I'm sorry.


I am not the same entity as Kevin. I spoke to andrew without even consulting Keven Baily. I shot Andrew emails without talking to Kevin Bailey about it. I am in the wrong, and Kevin didn't even see my acts of savagery coming.

If you want to press charges so be it, but please just refund Kevin's money.

-Sean G

Legally speaking, it would seem you own the situation. Withholding the refund will put that in jeopardy, if not negate it fully and damage your good reputation in the process. The odds are good you would recoup the funds with a favorable judgement anyhow, so why risk all that positive? If nothing else put the funds in an escrow account with an attorney in lieu of an outcome of the criminal case. But standing on perceived principle and withholding the funds completely will destroy your standing, both legally and in the community IMO. It would be criminal to snatch such a defeat from the jaws of victory. I hope you reconsider your position.