Bad Guy Andrew Potts- I want my money back

[cobraman1]

Interesting take on things. You stand firmly against blackmail, but outright theft is cool with you. While it may be very enlightening to anyone who reads your posts with the intent of gauging your own integrity, or lack thereof, it's not particularly relevant to the topic at hand.

In the simplest terms: the buyer paid for an item that arrived severely broken and the seller is shirking his duty to rectify what he admitted was his own mistake. The actions of characters whose relationship is tangential, at best, absolutely should not be an acceptable justification for withholding what's due to the main principal involved, the guy that actually handed over the money for the dead snake. I believe anything beyond this is completely moot and serves no purpose other than creating lame rationalizations for the seller to justify keeping money received for a product that he ultimately didn't provide in what could sensibly be called a satisfactory condition.

First, I think both parties did wrong at one time or another. I just said that I understand him being hesitant. For you to imply that the two other mens actions in this is "moot and serves no purpose other than creating lame rationalizations for the seller to justify keeping money received for a product that he ultimately didn't provide in what could sensibly be called a satisfactory condition" is crazy. The other two men that involved themselves are very relevant here, I believe. Especially since they are all supposed partners. So, my point is, Im not justifying keeping the money, BUT i DO understand his hesitation after everything that has transpired.

 

[Designerboa]

Andrew Potts....... Every post in this thread is adding more content for the search engines....You are not doing yourself, Bob Potts or your Aztec project any good....... 4,600 is a small price to pay to make this go away without doing anymore harm.

My 0.2

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Andrew Potts....... Every post in this thread is adding more content for the search engines....You are not doing yourself, Bob Potts or your Aztec project any good....... 4,600 is a small price to pay to make this go away without doing anymore harm.

My 0.2

Genius attack right there Buddy! Nice shot!

 

[Designerboa]

As evidenced by this Google search.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

I've got to say, Tom, that I'm pretty surprised that you're letting Sean off the hook so easily with the explanation that you had a good transaction with him 6-8 yrs ago....and because he was pissed. Really? You're letting him off with that lame a$$ apology because you sold him a boa once? I'm in agreement that Andrew needs to step up with a refund or replacement animal...but I think you're way off base on Sean.

I'm sorry for that Harald. Just my 3 cents. The real issue is the dead snake from 2 heat packs on a miscalculated shipping attempt. There should have been small ice packs in that run.

 

[Designerboa]

Genius attack right there Buddy! Nice shot!

This isn't an attack Tom. In no way do I condone the obvious skulduggery exhibited by the extortionist. SHAMEFUL! However I don't think the Bob's...lol...(couldn't help myself...sorry) understand the consequences of this negative exposure. Not only will it affect their project and reputation in our industry but could possible cause much worse issues for them in the future not pertaining to this industry.

Congratulations Andrew you now made position two and moving up?

 

[Fangthane]

... For you to imply that the two other mens actions in this is "moot and serves no purpose..." is crazy.

You're bending over backwards pretty far in your apparent mission to miss the point: This transaction was between A and B. C and D, and their interactions with A or B, are absolutely irrelevant in regards to the seller fixing his own mistake in not supplying A with what he purchased; a live boa.

[/QUOTE]
The other two men that involved themselves are very relevant here, I believe. Especially since they are all supposed partners. So, my point is, Im not justifying keeping the money, BUT i DO understand his hesitation after everything that has transpired.[/QUOTE]

The OP said something along the lines of "I had extra money laying around so I bought the snake". As I don't have the ambition to dig through the thread and find the exact quote, I'm paraphrasing. Again, he laid out his own money for this purchase. It's ridiculous to say that the actions of those he had a mentor/potential breeding loan arrangement with has any direct bearing on the fact that he's now $4600 poorer with absolutely nothing to show for it.

 

[cobraman1]

You're bending over backwards pretty far in your apparent mission to miss the point: This transaction was between A and B. C and D, and their interactions with A or B, are absolutely irrelevant in regards to the seller fixing his own mistake in not supplying A with what he purchased; a live boa.

The other two men that involved themselves are very relevant here, I believe. Especially since they are all supposed partners. So, my point is, Im not justifying keeping the money, BUT i DO understand his hesitation after everything that has transpired.[/QUOTE]

The OP said something along the lines of "I had extra money laying around so I bought the snake". As I don't have the ambition to dig through the thread and find the exact quote, I'm paraphrasing. Again, he laid out his own money for this purchase. It's ridiculous to say that the actions of those he had a mentor/potential breeding loan arrangement with has any direct bearing on the fact that he's now $4600 poorer with absolutely nothing to show for it.[/QUOTE]

I didnt miss the point and I completely understand that the deal was between andrew and kevin. My point was that with the blackmail and "partnership" with the other two men, I can understand Andrew feeling suspicious and being hesitant. I never condoned him not refunding or replacing. I just stated that with everything being as fishy as it is, I can understand him being hesitant. I still believe that the other two men are relevant to the whole picture though.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

This isn't an attack Tom. In no way do I condone the obvious skulduggery exhibited by the extortionist. SHAMEFUL! However I don't think the Bob's...lol...(couldn't help myself...sorry) understand the consequences of this negative exposure. Not only will it affect their project and reputation in our industry but could possible cause much worse issues for them in the future not pertaining to this industry.

Congratulations Andrew you now made position two and moving up?

By 'genius attack,' I only meant very smart of you to address that sir. Thank you. Those links stick! No attacks. lol.

 

[Keys & Kritterz]

just because a snake is worth $10,000 doesnt mean someone is going to pay him that much money. Especially when they see something like this. Who is going to pay that kind of money if they dont have the faith he will do the right thing for them?
I do strongly feel that both sides were wrong. I do not know either party, I just feel that not returning the money or a different snake is completely unethical regardless of the situation. You screwed up and the snake died due to your incompetence. YOU NEED TO MAKE IT RIGHT.

If he's firm on the price then yea they are going to have to pay that amount of money. The BOI is for people to make their own decision on whether to buy from someone or not. Everyone else's opinion does not sway me one way or another on a deal, its the facts and how the seller handles his business. If I was the buyer here, I for one would not be in a partnership with two other people, If Kevin's shady friends or "partners" would not have done what they did, Kevin would probably have his money or snake by now. If not then yes, Andrew would be a bad guy. 90% of the time I tend to agree with the smaller party or "hobbyist" over "breeder" as usually a hobbyist doesn't have the money or multiples of an animal, as most breeders do so its not a huge loss for them. If you think someones EGO is to big because they wont take the chance on the possibilty of getting scammed after already an attempt to blackmail by the buyers "partner" then thats your opinion.

 

[weird_science04]

If Andrew did a Paypal refund; how could this end up in a scam from the blackmailing parties? I personally would NOT send the OP another snake because I wouldn't want to deal with the OP on that level if I were Andrew but a refund is different. The OP can't come back and say that Andrew sent counterfeit money through Paypal. Not to mention, Andrew would have proof of the refund in his Paypal account.

Star

 

[Fangthane]

I still believe that the other two men are relevant to the whole picture though.

Possibly, for posterity's sake and from a philosophical standpoint, there may be some vague relevance. But, here in real-time, and, and directly on-topic, the seller is grasping at any excuse possible to justify his theivery. The unwelcome (according to the OP) intervention of his associates shouldn't even come into play when this is examined from root-level. Buyer paid, seller didn't provide.

If I was the buyer here, I for one would not be in a partnership with two other people, If Kevin's shady friends or "partners" would not have done what they did, Kevin would probably have his money or snake by now

.

Seeing as that's not how it ended up going down, we'll never know how true that is. I think some people are choosing to ignore the causality aspect of this, though. If the seller's admitted negligence didn't kill the snake, it's likely that this thread would not exist. Either way, what could have been, has taken a turn for the worse in becoming what actually IS. Not sure we should spend too much time on hypotheticals that didn't come to be. None of the peanut gallery's interactions change the fact that there is now a debt between the buyer and seller that is not being remedied.

 

[Willow]

.

Seeing as that's not how it ended up going down, we'll never know how true that is. I think some people are choosing to ignore the causality aspect of this, though. If the seller's admitted negligence didn't kill the snake, it's likely that this thread would not exist. Either way, what could have been, has taken a turn for the worse in becoming what actually IS. Not sure we should spend too much time on hypotheticals that didn't come to be. None of the peanut gallery's interactions change the fact that there is now a debt between the buyer and seller that is not being remedied.

I couldn't agree more.

Once ALL emotion is completely removed from the situation, the only conclusion is a refund for the dead snake. Not a replacement, a simply refund.

 

[Willow]

simple*

grrr

 

[Keys & Kritterz]

If Andrew did a Paypal refund; how could this end up in a scam from the blackmailing parties? I personally would NOT send the OP another snake because I wouldn't want to deal with the OP on that level if I were Andrew but a refund is different. The OP can't come back and say that Andrew sent counterfeit money through Paypal. Not to mention, Andrew would have proof of the refund in his Paypal account.

Star

Its not a fact of them still trying to scam or actually having a scam to pull, its simply the fact that a guy, who is or was the op's partner trying to blackmail a 8K or 15K boa out of him after a 4.6K snake died in transit. With no way to prove it, and only have Kevins word that they are no longer partners. Id be reluctant aswell.

 

[Willow]

Reluctance does not make it legally or morally acceptable to keep someones money that you have no right to keep.

 

[Mister Internet]

I heard about this the day it happen...

Sean was under the impression that you intentionally send a dead snake to maybe pull an insurance claim... Was that the reason you wanted the dead snake?

It looks dead in the pictures!

Sean was pretty upset because his partner Kevin spent a considerable amount of money, and obviously had big plans for this Hytec, Parahet...

I must have missed the "Black Mail" email... Was Sean asking for a better Hytec, ParaHet and $10,000.00 for sending him a dead snake?

I think we all agree that evidence shows the Hytec, ParaHet was DOA... Regardless if the snake could maybe made it OK... The facts are that the snake was shipped with wrong shipping classification, delaying delivery... The fact that two heat packs were used when they were not needed... And, the fact is that the Hytec, ParaHet arrived dead...

If you have the money, you should refund the money...
If you have another male Hytec, ParaHet, that is of acceptable quality to Kevin... Send it to him properly shipped, and properly packed...
If you do not have a Male Hytec, ParaHet, that is of acceptable quality to Kevin... Send a more valuable animal that is acceptable to Kevin... Send it to him properly shipped, and properly packed...

The option to keep/steal Kevin's money, will comeback to bite you in the

Just the idea of keeping/stealing Kevin's money could seriously affect your positive rating... Right now, It does not make you look all that good.

I hope you can resolve this in a civilized manner... Good luck to you all!

Why on earth would you expect anyone to take you seriously given your history here? And how cute that you're sticking up for Sean... birds of a feather, I guess.

Yes, Kevin is OWED a refund (which is a different matter entirely from whether or not he DESERVES it), but trying to excuse the actions of Sean as just the ramblings of someone who's "pissed" or otherwise trying to provoke action is also inexcusable. I don't get to go on a shoplifting spree or fire a gun in the air in a residential neighborhood just because I'm "pissed", while we're excusing relatively minor crimes in the name of blowing off steam... sheesh.

And Robert Potts, if you continue to keep the man's money, there are now TWO dishonest parties in this situation. Be a man. Your continued insistence that is "possible the snake arrived alive" sounds like the desperate ramblings of a guy who knows he owes someone money that he's already spent. You shipping that snake wrong, and you outlined for us all very clearly exactly how and when you did it. There's no way the packaging for that snake would be considered "safe" or "appropriate" for the temps in EITHER location. You do NOT have the high ground here, and in fact, become a criminal yourself for keeping ill-gotten funds for delivery of an unsatisfactory product. You are NOT on higher ground by simply having "delivered a product", despite what the lady from MO is harping on.

Although, Mr. Potts, I do think you're fully justified in pressing charges on this Sean character should you feel compelled... extortion in the thousands of dollars rises to felony levels very quickly. You can have your day in court with him, and with my blessing. But you owe a refund in this case, and I think you know it. If you decide NOT to refund the money, then I recommend doing your best to avoid any mention of this situation reaching the inside of a courtroom, as the presiding DA might just as soon decide to recommend charges against you for fraudulent gain.

 

[Reptilecam]

Does anyone know if Andrew has been keeping up with this thread? All this talk back and forth has only taken a couple hours.
Either way I agree with everyone that a refund is needed but I dont blame Andrew for being hesitant to do so. After what the opposing party attempted to do is just sad.
Its funny how both sean and conner made it so popular on fb and a couple other sites to come check out this thread. That was until it got bad and became public after the blackmail was announced.
I would like to here what they have to say since they all of a sudden kept so quiet.

 

[Reptilecam]

Or since I know they wont show up on here how bout a bad guy thread on both of them? I just think they are being left out to easily.

 

[Constrictor Creations]

My two cents:I think he sent you a dead snake in some type of insurance scam thing.. meaning you would get your snake plus he would get reimbursed for the dead snake he intentionally mailed you..Sorry this happened to you,and i hope it all works out. -Jason