Bad Guy Andrew Potts- I want my money back

[Robert Potts]

One more thing, since everyone says Kevin had nothing to do with any of the things Sean and Connor did, please ask him to produce one e-mail he sent Sean or Connor where he ask or tells them to butt out or get lost or even addresses the issue(the problems they're causing). Please ask him to show one e-mail he sent to Sean or Connor that he disapproved of their activities. Andrew

 

[ShadowAceD]

I'm not going to continue debating the situation any longer. Minds have been made up and that's life and I have to respect(may not agree) with the discourse which ensues. I'm not saying their right or wrong but no one was there except Sean, Connor, Kevin and myself. From the very beginning I planned to replace the snake even after I told them to go fish. I wanted them to go public so people could see Sean, Connor and Kevin are criminals. Did I get a little burned, yes but such is life and yes some will not buy from me because of this issue and that's what I will have to live with. Kevin knows what he has to do to get the ball rolling, and yes it's up to Kevin. Also if anyone wants to call me at 727-784-4739 I'll be more than happy to discuss the issue.

If I'm such a worthless piece of feces who is completely incompetent, why haven't hundreds of others come on here to tell of their horrible dealing with me. You won't because none exist.

A little into my mindset and how I think. Recently did a trade which the animal turned out to be the wrong sex. Enclosed a $50 check when we sent the wrong sexed snake back to the owner.
A year or so ago I met a fascination young man on Jeff Ronne's sight and he so impressed me I sold him a smoking male Aztec for $300 when at the time they were going for around $5,000 or $6,000. Guess what that male just produced Brent and Kenny a nice litter of Hytecs het something.

This ain't about money it's about what's right and Kevin knows he played both sides to a tee. Oh by the way I would have paid Kevin his cost to send dead boa back and then the cost to replace the boa. I tell all my customers if any problems occur they will not have to pay another penny in shipping cost. Oh yes and the six month guarantee.

I think it should be noted that since this is my only bad thread in 25 years and the extenuating circumstances of the thread, harm will be minimal. Unfortunately the vast majority of the human race tend to waiver when it concerns money, so I don't think I'm going to lose that much business.

Once again Kevin knows what he has to do to get the ball rolling so get with it Kevin. Andrew

I am not sure where anyone referred to you as "feces" besides yourself, but whatever you need to do to turn everything around at everyone else to deflect attention from yourself then go for it.

As it has been stated countless times, it does not matter how many good transactions you have had, how many good deeds you have performed, how many thumbs up you havee been given when there is that one really bad situation you fail to make right or fail to even acknowledge your guilt/part in. It is that one incident that will tarnish you and make people second guess the decision to work with you. Understand, the Aztecs will continue to become more available as time goes on and people can very easily go to another source to get them rather than you. I have already decided when I get into the project within the next couple of years, it will not be from you.

It is about the money. It is not up to you to become the moral compass of the world and decide you can hold someone's money hostage because you feel they wronged you when you failed to provide them with the product they paid for because you made mistakes. Mistakes you owned up to in the beginning but not refute as potentially created by Kevin. You say it is possible he killed the animal in a weird attempt at blackmail that he supposedly planned ahead. You have no proof of this, but it is what you claim. There is proof you are the cause of the animal's death, but that is something you are not recanting on. All of this is just plain arrogance and I am a bit dumbfounded at it, honestly.

Why is it up to Kevin to "get the ball rolling"? Why are you just not refunding him? Why do you want to let this situation drag on and on and on because you are too arrogant and stubborn to just let it go? Why can you not just take the high road as you yourself stated in another thread (I quoted it earlier), and end it? All anyone sees at this point is a man who cannot get over himself long enough to think clearly and realize that what he posts here will, at some point in time, become a factor in his business. You may not think it will make a large dent, but it very much has the possibility to do so.

It's a sad thing to see, Mr. Potts, it truly is.

Also? For future reference ... seeing how you dealt with all of this? People may not bother complaining when something goes wrong, and that is even worse.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

The problem here Andrew, is you are the only one who doesn't see you as wrong. Why is that? You really think that all these people are out to harm you in some way? That they all need their sense of reasoning rechecked? Or maybe you think they were all in on the "blackmail" you speak of, and were hoping to get a piece of the pie?

Kevin, at this point, I'd just seek an attorney about getting your money back, and while you're speaking to that attorney, you may want to include the libelous statements Andrew has seen fit to put in this thread. Their is no way a judge will hold you accountable for someone elses emails to Andrew. All your emails are level headed, and speak for themselves. Andrew's on the other hand...not so much.

 

[ShadowAceD]

It is about the money. It is not up to you to become the moral compass of the world and decide you can hold someone's money hostage because you feel they wronged you when you failed to provide them with the product they paid for because you made mistakes. Mistakes you owned up to in the beginning but now refute as potentially created by Kevin. You say it is possible he killed the animal in a weird attempt at blackmail that he supposedly planned ahead. You have no proof of this, but it is what you claim. There is proof you are the cause of the animal's death, but that is something you are now recanting on. All of this is just plain arrogance and I am a bit dumbfounded at it, honestly.

... typo corrections. Sigh.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

I'm not going to continue debating the situation any longer. Minds have been made up and that's life and I have to respect(may not agree) with the discourse which ensues. I'm not saying their right or wrong but no one was there except Sean, Connor, Kevin and myself. From the very beginning I planned to replace the snake even after I told them to go fish. I wanted them to go public so people could see Sean, Connor and Kevin are criminals. Did I get a little burned, yes but such is life and yes some will not buy from me because of this issue and that's what I will have to live with. Kevin knows what he has to do to get the ball rolling, and yes it's up to Kevin. Also if anyone wants to call me at 727-784-4739 I'll be more than happy to discuss the issue.

If I'm such a worthless piece of feces who is completely incompetent, why haven't hundreds of others come on here to tell of their horrible dealing with me. You won't because none exist.

A little into my mindset and how I think. Recently did a trade which the animal turned out to be the wrong sex. Enclosed a $50 check when we sent the wrong sexed snake back to the owner.
A year or so ago I met a fascination young man on Jeff Ronne's sight and he so impressed me I sold him a smoking male Aztec for $300 when at the time they were going for around $5,000 or $6,000. Guess what that male just produced Brent and Kenny a nice litter of Hytecs het something.

This ain't about money it's about what's right and Kevin knows he played both sides to a tee. Oh by the way I would have paid Kevin his cost to send dead boa back and then the cost to replace the boa. I tell all my customers if any problems occur they will not have to pay another penny in shipping cost. Oh yes and the six month guarantee.

I think it should be noted that since this is my only bad thread in 25 years and the extenuating circumstances of the thread, harm will be minimal. Unfortunately the vast majority of the human race tend to waiver when it concerns money, so I don't think I'm going to lose that much business.

Once again Kevin knows what he has to do to get the ball rolling so get with it Kevin. Andrew

What does the bold part mean exactly? Like, contact you and get a refund or what?

And, I gotta smack ya a little bit; NOBODY with 25 years in would ship like you did! NOBODY! I see a 2010 sign in date on here? Are you kidding me right here? YOU WILL LOSE BUSINESS! That's a lifetime guarantee!

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Re: away fro home Kevin Bailey to you - Mar 21More Details
From: Kevin Bailey <[email protected]>Hide .Add to: To Do, Calendar
To: apotts60 <[email protected]>.Cc:.
Bcc:.
Date:Wed, Mar 21, 2012 4:21 pm.

Hey there Andrew, Im in and out all day today between work friend coming into town and now this. I called Connor last night and said I thought it was wrong to call you a scumbag and he was worked up a bit but not to the extent it sounds like Sean is. I also told Connor that when the new pick happens I want him to be there to help get the best pick. I agreed mistakes happen everywhere and not to get worked up until something "bad" happens. I also said that that bad thing has not happened yet and you have been very helpful with picking a new one out ect.

I had no idea you were still getting calls today. I do not support any action against you at the moment and you have been wonderful at, as you say, making me a happy customer.

I must know, is he using my name? If so I will call him right now and cut that shit out. He can be irate by himself and not drag me in with it. I dont think that all this chest bumping is good for anyones reputation and when I try to sell a few snakes I dont want people remembering me being impractical to deal with.

And you read that as...? (referring to the bold part)

 

[Robert Potts]

I understand I will lose business. I can live with the fact most on here will never by from me and that's sad and wish it wasn't so but alas, such is life. Andrew

 

[ShadowAceD]

I understand I will lose business. I can live with the fact most on here will never by from me and that's sad and wish it wasn't so but alas, such is life. Andrew

You can also live with taking someone's hard earned money and leaving them nothing to show for it because your pride was hurt.

That's pretty shameful, sir.

 

[Robert Potts]

Re: away fro home Kevin Bailey to you - Mar 21More Details
From: Kevin Bailey <[email protected]>Hide .Add to: To Do, Calendar
To: apotts60 <[email protected]>.Cc:.
Bcc:.
Date:Wed, Mar 21, 2012 4:21 pm.

Hey there Andrew, Im in and out all day today between work friend coming into town and now this. I called Connor last night and said I thought it was wrong to call you a scumbag and he was worked up a bit but not to the extent it sounds like Sean is. I also told Connor that when the new pick happens I want him to be there to help get the best pick. I agreed mistakes happen everywhere and not to get worked up until something "bad" happens. I also said that that bad thing has not happened yet and you have been very helpful with picking a new one out ect.

I had no idea you were still getting calls today. I do not support any action against you at the moment and you have been wonderful at, as you say, making me a happy customer.

I must know, is he using my name? If so I will call him right now and cut that shit out. He can be irate by himself and not drag me in with it. I dont think that all this chest bumping is good for anyones reputation and when I try to sell a few snakes I dont want people remembering me being impractical to deal with.

And you read that as...? (referring to the bold part)

How do you know he made the phone call...? Please get serious. Just because he said he was doesn't mean he did. Sean continued with the threats. You tell me. Andrew

 

[deborahbroadus]

I'm not going to continue debating the situation any longer. Minds have been made up and that's life and I have to respect(may not agree) with the discourse which ensues. I'm not saying their right or wrong but no one was there except Sean, Connor, Kevin and myself. From the very beginning I planned to replace the snake even after I told them to go fish. I wanted them to go public so people could see Sean, Connor and Kevin are criminals. Did I get a little burned, yes but such is life and yes some will not buy from me because of this issue and that's what I will have to live with. Kevin knows what he has to do to get the ball rolling, and yes it's up to Kevin. Also if anyone wants to call me at 727-784-4739 I'll be more than happy to discuss the issue.

If I'm such a worthless piece of feces who is completely incompetent, why haven't hundreds of others come on here to tell of their horrible dealing with me. You won't because none exist.

A little into my mindset and how I think. Recently did a trade which the animal turned out to be the wrong sex. Enclosed a $50 check when we sent the wrong sexed snake back to the owner.
A year or so ago I met a fascination young man on Jeff Ronne's sight and he so impressed me I sold him a smoking male Aztec for $300 when at the time they were going for around $5,000 or $6,000. Guess what that male just produced Brent and Kenny a nice litter of Hytecs het something.

This ain't about money it's about what's right and Kevin knows he played both sides to a tee. Oh by the way I would have paid Kevin his cost to send dead boa back and then the cost to replace the boa. I tell all my customers if any problems occur they will not have to pay another penny in shipping cost. Oh yes and the six month guarantee.

I think it should be noted that since this is my only bad thread in 25 years and the extenuating circumstances of the thread, harm will be minimal. Unfortunately the vast majority of the human race tend to waiver when it concerns money, so I don't think I'm going to lose that much business.

Once again Kevin knows what he has to do to get the ball rolling so get with it Kevin. Andrew

To the bolded: You probably won't see another thread like THIS in your name either, because anyone spending that kind of money with you, again, would be a fool (...ummm then again...there's an overpopulation of them...so you might).

I, for one, do BELIEVE that you meant to set up an Insurance Scam, and once the buyer didn't send you the snake back, you decided to keep his money and only played nice until you had a "reason" to take back the "niceness." It worked out in your "favor," because the buyer had some idiot for friends...but I think this thread would have come about whether those "friends" had shown up in the picture or not.

I, for one, don't care how many of your other buyers got their money back, or were satisfied,...THIS amount (4K+) is too much for anyone to LOSE.

 

[scaledverts]

How do you know he made the phone call...? Please get serious. Just because he said he was doesn't mean he did. Sean continued with the threats. You tell me. Andrew

How do you know he DIDN'T???? The burden of proof here is on YOU not him because you have his money!

You are asking for proof that he said to stop and when evidence is given it isn't good enough......

You are basing your claims that he was working with Sean on your own assumptions, you also cannot produce a single email that says Kevin is working with Sean or anyone else for that matter. The only thing you have is some random (as far as this transaction is concerned) person emailing you about a boa that arrived dead to his friend.

 

[Robert Potts]

You can also live with taking someone's hard earned money and leaving them nothing to show for it because your pride was hurt.

That's pretty shameful, sir.

As I said Kevin will receive a replacement animal when he comes clean. The very day it happened I told him I was going to replace and sent photos and I meant it. Except Him, Sean and Connor tried to play it fast and loose 12 hours later. Because Kevin is actively involved I changed my mind and told him to post. He did, where here. I bet none of you will ever do business with Sean or Connor, maybe even Kevin. Mission accomplished. Andrew

 

[Robert Potts]

How do you know he DIDN'T???? The burden of proof here is on YOU not him because you have his money!

You are asking for proof that he said to stop and when evidence is given it isn't good enough......

You are basing your claims that he was working with Sean on your own assumptions, you also cannot produce a single email that says Kevin is working with Sean or anyone else for that matter. The only thing you have is some random (as far as this transaction is concerned) person emailing you about a boa that arrived dead to his friend.

Because Sean's and Connor's threats of Black-mail continued after he said he would talk with them. Andrew

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Not trying to stir the pot but....

To everyone who says that the only coercion for a higher dollar animal came from Sean

Re: pictures Kevin Bailey to you - Mar 31More Details
From: Kevin Bailey <[email protected]>Hide .Add to: To Do, Calendar
To: apotts60 <[email protected]>.Cc:.
Bcc:.
Date:Sat, Mar 31, 2012 4:10 pm. I18N YGP.SaveAll I18N YGP.SaveProgress I18N YGP.ViewAfterSave ..

Your request is not going to happen. As I told you before the snake stunk. The animal arrived post rigor mortis which happens after 3 days. The snake was limp and not hard. Also happening at the same time is this, Hydrogen-Sulfide escapes from bacterial decomposition (usually starts around the stomach and intestine areas). This means it smells. This happens after 36 hours. The body had blood pools already very pronounced that happens from 12-36 hours. Then the mouth of the animal was at a 180 degree from its upper jaw. I was unable to receive an explanation for what would cause the snakes mouth to do that. Finally we come to what this all means.

With your tracking number I noticed the snake was only in transit for a total of 20 hours. I think you can see how the math does not add up and a dead snake was sent to me.


Now regarding your not budging before you receive the dead snake. It is impossible. That hydrogen sulfide I was talking to you about earlier in the email (the dead animal smell we all know so well) was so potent that not only did it escape 2 freezer ziplock bags surrounded by saran and in a Tupperware container. Furthermore, I used coffee grounds to mask the smell more. Coffee grounds as I am sure you know mask smells amazingly. That is why stores use it to cleanse the nose palate when you are buying colognes and perfumes. This can all be vouched for by my friend Rommel who was in from California and watched me do this. Now the next thing I did was send the snake overnight to your address that I used previously to send you the check (yes I still have that email of you giving me your address). Now I called fedex to figure out what is going on with this customer requested destruction. They had a note on it saying that the stench was so terrible that they could not handle it past the Tampa hub so they opened it up, found a dead snake, and then destroyed the said snake.

So this brings me back to my next point. I want my 4575.48 back or a Sharp Strain Albino Aztec.


The 75.48 comes from the overnight Fedex that I used to return the snake.

Kevin Bailey
1446 W Irving Park
Chicago IL, 60613

The section in Bold above sure sounds like he was trying to squeeze a far more expensive animal out of the situation than he was entitled to.

That said, Andrew is 100% in the wrong for not making it right. However, I don't necessarily agree with the majority's opinion on what "making it right" means.

Unless specific TOS were agreed on beforehand, the remedy (cash refund, replacement or credit towards another animal is generally up to the seller. Kevin bought a snake with particular genetics for a breeding program. A replacement with identical genetics was available. It was also offered as a replacement and refused. Again, unless specific Terms were set up in advance, that remedy is well within industry standards

I also find it somewhat unlikely that Kevin was unaware and not involved in the emails sent by his moronic buddies. I draw that conclusion based on the fact that the email copied above asks for the same animal they demanded in their emails.

My last comment is that a replacement animal could still be sent to a neutral third party in the buyers area and transferred to him after receipt. I have no doubt that the shipping errors caused the death and Andrew definitely needs to make the buyer whole. A replacement animal would do exactly that


Just my opinion

 

[Robert Potts]

To everyone who says that the only coercion for a higher dollar animal came from Sean




The section in Bold above sure sounds like he was trying to squeeze a far more expensive animal out of the situation than he was entitled to.

That said, Andrew is 100% in the wrong for not making it right. However, I don't necessarily agree with the majority's opinion on what "making it right" means.

Unless specific TOS were agreed on beforehand, the remedy (cash refund, replacement or credit towards another animal is generally up to the seller. Kevin bought a snake with particular genetics for a breeding program. A replacement with identical genetics was available. It was also offered as a replacement and refused. Again, unless specific Terms were set up in advance, that remedy is well within industry standards

I also find it somewhat unlikely that Kevin was unaware and not involved in the emails sent by his moronic buddies. I draw that conclusion based on the fact that the email copied above asks for the same animal they demanded in their emails.

My last comment is that a replacement animal could still be sent to a neutral third party in the buyers area and transferred to him after receipt. I have no doubt that the shipping errors caused the death and Andrew definitely needs to make the buyer whole. A replacement animal would do exactly that


Just my opinion

Kevin will get a replacement 2011 male OT Hytec Parahet. Andrew

 

[deborahbroadus]

Kevin will get a replacement 2011 male OT Hytec Parahet. Andrew

That works for me.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Kevin will get a replacement 2011 male OT Hytec Parahet. Andrew

That is a fair deal. How, where, when? Good man!

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Kevin will get a replacement 2011 male OT Hytec Parahet. Andrew

Which is exactly what he is entitled to...no more...no less.

 

[Matt2979]

Kevin will get a replacement 2011 male OT Hytec Parahet. Andrew

As long as the replacement snake is at least of equal quality as the original, this sounds (to me) like a fair way to fix the problem. Glad to hear you won't leave an unhappy customer hanging!

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Good catch John. Must have missed that scrolling up and down trying to read the jumbled emails in order.

Andrew, Now you're being reasonable. I'll have to take back some of the things I've said about you.