Bad Guy Andrew Potts- I want my money back

[DesertRat73]

Kevin will get a replacement 2011 male OT Hytec Parahet. Andrew

Does this mean you are going to take care of your end and then persue the other matter, or is this what he will get AFTER he"comes clean" to your satisfaction? I think it's important to distinguish your intent here.

 

[Robert Potts]

Does this mean you are going to take care of your end and then persue the other matter, or is this what he will get AFTER he"comes clean" to your satisfaction? I think it's important to distinguish your intent here.

Your right, Kevin will have to do the right thing. Andrew

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Oh brother. Here we go again.

 

[laterob]

Robert, I am disappointed that this is the sword you choose to fall on. Posters here have OVERWHELMINGLY stated their opinion that you are in the wrong. It's not like it's 50/50 or 60/40. A small gaggle of people have taken the time to try to beat it through your skull that your logic is, at best, flawed. It's surprising to me that you posted what Diem (I think?) quoted you from that other thread.

I can't believe you've been shipping for 25 years and haven't figured out how to check the weather, either.

Kevin shouldn't have to do ANYTHING besides receive a comparable replacement or get his $$ back. The straws you are grasping at to defend your position are laughable.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Mr Castillo I applaud and commend your business I.Q. The high road is always the preferred route to take(although in some cases not the easiest) and in the long run will get you there faster in greater comfort.

Like some, I thought this thread was going to be a tuff one(considering the number of post in 2 days), but so glad that those involved were all above board. This thread should be a shinning example of how a resolution can be had by the people whom it concerns. Also a prime example of how important a consumer tool the BOI has been and always will be.

Chad, the reason he refunded the shipping is why Mr Castillo will have a long and lasting career in the reptile world. He's to smart a business man to nit pick concerning less than $100 and also understands that some actions reverberate much longer than other actions. Like you implied, he didn't have to refund but he did none the less because it was the right thing to do for this situation. As far as advertising goes, the shipping refund he gave ads 1000 times it's dollar value to his reputation.

In closing, glad to see both parties are satisfied with the outcome. Andrew

Yep, it was me. Here it is again because I think it got lost in the postings going on at the same time I threw it up.

Andrew, you really have to see the hypocrisy here.

 

[DesertRat73]

you really have to see the hypocrisy here.

I agree, but it looks as though the only way this will get resolved is through legal action. Unless Kevin comes back on and straightens things out.
(I don't agree with that). Imo the refund/snake should be given and legal action pursued by Andrew. All his stubbornness has achieved is given them the legal upper hand. As I stated earlier in the thread, he's snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Hopefully Kevin will come back and address the comment he made about wanting the higher value boa and salvage this, but I have my reservations.

 

[ShadowAceD]

I agree, but it looks as though the only way this will get resolved is through legal action. Unless Kevin comes back on and straightens things out.
(I don't agree with that). Imo the refund/snake should be given and legal action pursued by Andrew. All his stubbornness has achieved is given them the legal upper hand. As I stated earlier in the thread, he's snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Hopefully Kevin will come back and address the comment he made about wanting the higher value boa and salvage this, but I have my reservations.

Just as Andrew can speculate on what the motivation was behind Kevin, Sean and Connor, it can be speculated on why certain things were said.

Kevin makes that comment near the end of their conversations before the BOI comes up. At this point, Kevin has Connor and Sean, who are clearly taking advantage of the entire situation, likely convincing him this is what he deserves. Kevin is angry, just as Andrew is angry and he gives an ultimatum. It really is not that difficult to figure. If you are angry and you have people feeding into that anger and whispering in your ear, peer pressure is not that inprobable to cave into.

While Kevin has his own guilt in this scenario, just from speaking to him myself and seeing everything else, I believe he is a victim of his own ignorance and was easily manipulated by Sean and Connor. Whether or not he was aware of the manipulation enough to stop it remains to be seen, but regardless of if he demanded his money or a higher end animal it does not change the fact that Andrew made serious mistakes when shipping the animal and, as a result, that animal died. It is easy to get lost in the whole "well, someone attempted blackmail" issue, but it does not justify holding onto the money or holding onto a replacement animal until someone comes back to kiss the other person's in order to heal their ego.

A lot can be speculated on, and that is part of the problem, but the facts point to mistakes in shipping killing the animal and that really is the bottom line.

 

[Pasodama]

Kevin Quote: "So this brings me back to my next point. I want my 4575.48 back or a Sharp Strain Albino Aztec."

To everyone who says that the only coercion for a higher dollar animal came from Sean

The section in Bold above sure sounds like he was trying to squeeze a far more expensive animal out of the situation than he was entitled to.

I had caught that and, as with you, it raised a bit of suspicion that Kevin may, possibly, not be 100% innocent of the blackmail attempts. Either that or may have had, at the very least end, some small part with its coming into being (i.e. "banter amongst friends").
The problem comes with proving that Kevin was an actual participating party, in the blackmail attempts, if he, indeed, was.
Without proof, it lands square on on Andrew's shoulders to reimburse/refund Kevin in some form or another.

 

[Fangthane]

Your right, Kevin will have to do the right thing. Andrew

Mr Castillo I applaud and commend your business I.Q. The high road is always the preferred route to take(although in some cases not the easiest) and in the long run will get you there faster in greater comfort.

Pride goeth before a fall. Your own hubris is the slippery slope upon which you tread, leading inexorably downward, from the high road of righteousness, into the depths of ill repute. Hypocrisy, indeed. Potts, meet kettle.

 

[laterob]

So Kevin has to admit that he was involved in a blackmail attempt before you will allow him what he is owed? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? And speaking of blackmail, Robert....I believe COERCION is also illegal.

 

[laterob]

Coercion ( /koʊˈɜrʃən/) is the practice of forcing another party to behave in an involuntary manner (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats or intimidation or some other form of pressure or force. In law, coercion is codified as the duress crime. Such actions are used as leverage, to force the victim to act in the desired way. Coercion may involve the actual infliction of physical pain/injury or psychological harm in order to enhance the credibility of a threat. The threat of further harm may lead to the cooperation or obedience of the person being coerced. Torture is one of the most extreme examples of coercion i.e. severe pain is inflicted until the victim provides the desired information.

In this case, you are the schoolyard bully who says, "I'll give you your lunch money back if you kiss my feet." It's sad, really.

 

[DesertRat73]

it does not justify holding onto the money or holding onto a replacement animal

I agree, and am really a little baffled by it. I never knew anything of Andrew until this thread, but he says he's been in this business for 25 years. Just going by the numbers, he has had problem customers before, he's made mistakes before, and he has had to make amends before. So, being an experienced businessman, why not handle this one professionally? How is the emotion and angst of this situation enough to overcome good judgement and all that experience, to bring him to this point now? Particularly in light of his comments in the other thread that you posted. To me, with $4500 and that much time in business on the line, it would seem to be a no brainer. Unless he is exiting the business, in which case the reputation would be moot. But that's just me speculating. It's resoundingly clear to me, both from a business perspective and a legal one, your first step is the refund/replacement, all other actions follow. And that's the kicker for me. He had other solid actions to follow up with. I'm not so sure now.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Your right, Kevin will have to do the right thing. Andrew

Not exactly the way to avail yourself of a clean way out Andrew. For about ten minutes there you were looking pretty good.

You have acknowledged what the right course of action is. No one really doubts that the OP was, at least, to some extent the instigator of those idiotic blackmail email demands. It has been proven that you made this exact offer from the onset of this fiasco.

You have a golden opportunity here to end this with your reputation more or less intact. Why screw it up by acting like a petty 5 year old?


Horse, water, drink...you know the old saying

 

[Pasodama]

I believe COERCION is also illegal.

Very true.

Such a tactic is no better than Sean's blackmail attempts.

It is also unethical and ludicrous.
#1 If guilty, Kevin would be an absolute fool to hand over the axe that would chop off his head.
#2 If innocent, it is sickening to try to force someone to confess to something, that they did not do, in order to get something that they are already, and rightfully, entitled to.

 

[laterob]

It seems everyone but Mr. Potts is in agreement. Tough to take the high road, huh, Robert?

 

[ShadowAceD]

It seems everyone but Mr. Potts is in agreement. Tough to take the high road, huh, Robert?

^ That.

It's easy to preach.

Not so easy to practice it.

Generally, that is when you see the true colors that represent a person.

 

[Robert Potts]

If I may, If it was worth $.50 I wouldn't give him his money back. Andrew

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Yep, 10 minutes in the right direction. Ever heard of the expression one step forward, and two steps back Mr. Potts? It's a euphemism describing no forward progress.

 

[ShadowAceD]

If I may, If it was worth $.50 I wouldn't give him his money back. Andrew

Still petty.

Still immoral.

Still wrong.

Not the high road.

 

[bullies&balls]

Don't forget ILLEGAL !!! It was also said somewhere in all this, that the animal was "pick of the litter". I think that many people (breeders) offer an animal of HIGHER value if they can NOT replace the orignal animal. Looks like Potts is drawing for straws with his "blackmail" theroy. You sire need a reality CHECK and in a BIG WAY !! If an apology is owed, it is owed by YOU...