Info Richard Kensinger - Ballistic Morphs - Bad experience

[Slim]

For the record, my issue is not with the brown box. I'm color agnostic when it comes to shipping boxes. My problem is with the lack of any labeling that would indicate that the thing in the brown box is a living, breathing animal that shouldn't end up on the very bottom of the sorting bin next to grandma's peanut brittle and some guy's chrome Chevy water pump.

 

[H00blah]

Here's the deal:

The nose rub is an issue - not because it happened during shipping, but because from the other photos it looks like a pre-existing condition that should have been disclosed.

The shipping issue is an issue and it is NOT an issue. All boxes should be labeled and delivered in accordance with both carrier and federal requirements.

The problem is that the majority of the people use a white box, mark it Live Animals and think they are on some sort of moral high ground compared to someone who packs the snake in a brown box without the live animal mark.

That does not wash.

If someone is going to attempt to call someone out on improper shipping practices, you better darn well know ALL of the rules you should be adhering to.

That means that simply slapping a "Live Animal" sticker on a white box and getting a signature should not be the end all. It does not conform to the Lacey Act and it does not conform to Fedex's own rules by which they hold your live animal shipper certificate.

In the BOI, "Susan S." posted this:

means you have agreed (and actually I had to sign for and provide a notarized statement) to ship according to Fedex rules. I shipped live snakes for many years through Fedex before getting certified. Once I learned about the certification process and then sent my box to Memphis for the "box test" and then passing the test, I took seriously my commitment to not only sell quality captive-bred ball python morphs, but to provide excellent customer service........which in my opinion, includes quality shipping. Fedex says I must label the box with "live harmless reptiles" and so does my Florida Fish & Wildlife Commission! I also require a signature. I tell my recipients that they MUST be home to receive the shipment and I require the signature for this purpose. I don't want the animal that I have nurtured and grown to fry on someone's doorstep. NO WAY is the seller of the clown a certified Fedex shipper!

I would not be happy receiving the snake with the nose rub that you received either. I think you handled it well, especially taking it immediately to the vet. You made the seller aware, he refused to pay any of the vet bill. In my opinion this forum is exactly the place you should be telling others of your experience with this seller. I personally will never buy from him!

Her post really reflects how I feel on the whole situation. I feel as if it's a matter of customer service. The nose rub not being disclosed to me is bad customer service. Ensuring quality (not using the word "proper" this time) shipping seems like it's a service rather than an obligation or requirement. Not paying a cent towards my vet visit for this snake with BLOOD ON THE HEAT PITS/NOSE is a service that I PERSONALLY would have followed through on, but is not necessary... Though I would have done many things differently than Richard, it does not mean that he doesn't produce quality animals, or that he doesn't take proper care of his snakes. He allowed me to keep her for a few days to let her settle in, and see how she progresses. He even suggested that I try feeding her to see how she is. I GREATLY appreciated that, and I let him know it!

I still got a box (brown, white, round, or triangular) handed to me as if there was no animal in it, I still had to open the box to an unfortunate discovery, and I still had to pay the vet bill. In Susan's words, I also will never buy from him again. I guess I just have higher expectations when it comes to this sort of thing. I've been spoiled by GREAT service from other previous out-of-state breeders. Again, the choice is upto all of you.

 

[ReptileGeek181]

In the BOI, "Susan S." posted this:


Her post really reflects how I feel on the whole situation. I feel as if it's a matter of customer service. The nose rub not being disclosed to me is bad customer service. Ensuring quality (not using the word "proper" this time) shipping seems like it's a service rather than an obligation or requirement. Not paying a cent towards my vet visit for this snake with BLOOD ON THE HEAT PITS/NOSE is a service that I PERSONALLY would have followed through on, but is not necessary... Though I would have done many things differently than Richard, it does not mean that he doesn't produce quality animals, or that he doesn't take proper care of his snakes. He allowed me to keep her for a few days to let her settle in, and see how she progresses. He even suggested that I try feeding her to see how she is. I GREATLY appreciated that, and I let him know it!

I still got a box (brown, white, round, or triangular) handed to me as if there was no animal in it, I still had to open the box to an unfortunate discovery, and I still had to pay the vet bill. In Susan's words, I also will never buy from him again. I guess I just have higher expectations when it comes to this sort of thing. I've been spoiled by GREAT service from other previous out-of-state breeders. Again, the choice is upto all of you.

I agree with you 100%

 

[Skiploder]

Does your Fedex waiver not state that you must ship business to business?

I know mine does and I comply. Why would you proudly choose to adhere to one guideline but not another?

means you have agreed (and actually I had to sign for and provide a notarized statement) to ship according to Fedex rules. I shipped live snakes for many years through Fedex before getting certified. Once I learned about the certification process and then sent my box to Memphis for the "box test" and then passing the test, I took seriously my commitment to not only sell quality captive-bred ball python morphs, but to provide excellent customer service........which in my opinion, includes quality shipping. Fedex says I must label the box with "live harmless reptiles" and so does my Florida Fish & Wildlife Commission! I also require a signature. I tell my recipients that they MUST be home to receive the shipment and I require the signature for this purpose. I don't want the animal that I have nurtured and grown to fry on someone's doorstep. NO WAY is the seller of the clown a certified Fedex shipper!

I would not be happy receiving the snake with the nose rub that you received either. I think you handled it well, especially taking it immediately to the vet. You made the seller aware, he refused to pay any of the vet bill. In my opinion this forum is exactly the place you should be telling others of your experience with this seller. I personally will never buy from him!

 

[shelliebear]

"To the OP: I'm sure that seeing your new snake arrive in that condition was both disappointing and upsetting. Hopefully, it will quickly heal, and look as good as in the pictures that prompted your purchase. I may not fully agree with the emphasis you are putting on lack of the labeling, but I am actually impressed that this is the first shipment you've received that didn't have it. Maybe people are finally figuring it out.
Best of luck. (This should be my last post, unless something in this thread prompts my involvement as a moderator)"
Thank you Harald, this clears things up a lot for me. Very well worded response and I as well as probably everyone else appreciates your taking the time to post. I have learned very much from BOTH sides of this discussion, regardless of who I agree with or not. A very important thread no matter what you think if you're new to the shipping world! Thanks again.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I left the thread alone, because as far as I was concerned and probably the law, too. When the buyer accepted the box (knowing who it was from and that it didn't have the proper labeling), he became an accomplice (concern of the animal is not a good excuse, because if one isn't a part of the solution, they are a part of the problem).

I mean, if we are going to go by "breaking laws" without factoring in any other issue that may have been involved, they are both guilty. lol

 

[shelliebear]

.....So he should have declined to accept the package and had them take the non-labelled package back to the hub where the animal could have died awaiting return shipping? That's just wrong.

 

[Susan S.]

To Skiploader who said

"Does your Fedex waiver not state that you must ship business to business?

I know mine does and I comply. Why would you proudly choose to adhere to one guideline but not another?"

If I am shipping to a business, there is not a problem. In situations with home deliveries (and especially in temp extreme times of summer and winter), I will request the shipment held at Fedex and have the recipient pick it up there. And then there are some times (yes, I do admit it) that I ship to an individual at his/her home. That Fedex ruling is one that I don't necessarily agree with and I think it must come from a concern for Fedex liability issues. I do try to comply and I do...most of the time

 

[deborahbroadus]

.....So he should have declined to accept the package and had them take the non-labelled package back to the hub where the animal could have died awaiting return shipping? That's just wrong.

PETA feelings have no place in a business transaction. He might get off lightly BECAUSE he could plead concern, but as far as the letter of the LAW is concerned, by accepting the box, he became as guilty.

If you aren't a part of the solution...you become a part of the problem.

 

[shelliebear]

Don't insult me by calling my feelings PETA once, lol! I'm not part of PETA but wouldn't he have gotten in just as much trouble for refusing to accept the package, knowing what was inside and letting it die? Or do people not care about animals that get shipped that much? Maybe I'm being ridiculous here. Like I said I'm learning a ton though. Important stuff indeed.

 

[shelliebear]

PETA ones* not once, sorry....

 

[Skiploder]

Certified Fedex shipper means you have agreed (and actually I had to sign for and provide a notarized statement) to ship according to Fedex rules.

That Fedex ruling is one that I don't necessarily agree with and I think it must come from a concern for Fedex liability issues. I do try to comply and I do...most of the time

So you are admitting to not always complying with Fedex rules, despite the fact that you signed a notarized statement saying you would?

If you agreed to the rules, why would you not abide by them? Out of convenience to you (or a client) or for the benefit of the animal?

 

[Willow]

This is getting a bit off topic.

 

[shelliebear]

Richard Kensinger shipped snake, snake had rubbed nose which according to OP sometimes happens, no proof as to whether it was ongoing before shipping or happened in transit. OP wished to inform others primarily of the seemingly poor shipping methods (unlabeled box with live animal inside, color of box is irrelevant) so others could plan accordingly should they buy from this person. People have learned a lot from this discussion and will definitely make note of it should they so choose to purchase from him or other breeders who maintain similar shipping methods in the future. Back on topic and you get the gist of it. Thanks for the info!

 

[H00blah]

I thought this was cool, guys. Robyn from SYR replied in the other forum I keep mentioning (sorry). I think there's some good information here along with his point of view. I'm just posting this here to add some more information for anyone who reads through this thread.

Selective outrage can indeed be amusing, touche Skip : )

Using ShipYourReptiles, you are specifically allowed to ship to and from Residential addresses. With the normal FedEx Reptile Certification, you are allowed to ONLY ship Business to Business. And even more strictly, only ZONED Business addresses. Biz out of the house doesn't count. It is very specific.

Looking at the limited shipping pictures, and given Hooblah's, details, I don't see proper package labeling, which is a significant issue in these legislative and Snake Ban times. What an individual does reflects on ALL of us.

(Lacey Act specifies at minimum, that the box is labeled "wildlife". It doesn't mention anything about the popular phrasing "Live Harmless Reptiles" as meeting the requirement. Upon lengthy discussion with F&W folks, at SYR we recommend "Wildlife- Live Harmless Reptiles" to meet the minimum requirement AS WELL AS the easily understandable phrasing.)

What I do see is some poorly cut/fitted insulation. That defeats the point of the insulation, when you have ragged pieces and no tight seams to prevent temperature fluctuation.

Poor form on shipping box selection, from what I see. (and given our limited vision through these pics)

As for "handle with care" labeling and FedEx driver handling, you should pack your reptile safely and responsibly for the safety of the animal itself. Nothing you write on the box is going to get you special handling, treatment, or delivery on down filled pillows. The box will tumble and drop down conveyer belts and be stored upside down on shelves and in trucks no matter what you write on the box. That is the reality. Proper packaging makes all that a moot point.

You should rely on excellent packaging to protect your animal, not the hands of a delivery driver dropping off one of 2000 packages today.

Switching persona from professional shipper to professional breeder...

As for the condition of the snake, I would have returned it. All things considered, returned it. I don't want to see a bloody, rubbed nose. I think that is indicative of other stress and health issues. I see nose issues in the "before" ad pics. I would have assumed that was a going in/out of shed issue, but once I saw it worse in person, I'm out.

The seller offered a return. I would have taken advantage of that. Do I eat shipping both ways? Yes, if I needed to, returning it is my choice (as the buyer).

Once you started hedging your bets, and posting on various forums, you have apparently shut Richard down from further communication. Looks like he is not up to deal with you. Only makes it worse for both sides, but it is what it is.

As for the vet visit, that is on you. As a breeder, I am not interested in your vet, nor do I want to pay the cost.

I only use a vet for the MOST serious of issues. Nose rub, stuck shed, other minor issues are not one of those. But others like to go to the vet for everything. That is their choice. But I don't expect to be stuck with a $300 vet bill from your local Dog and Cat Vet because you are scared about an issue. Send it back to me, I can deal with it no problem. That is how I would approach it.

Of course, I would never send out a snake with a nose issue either. But still, you making the choice to incur $50, or $500, at a vet, that is on you. Send it back (as Richard initially offered) and it is $0 for the vet.

Apparently you are keeping the animal. I would set it up in a covered enclosure, and eliminate as much visual disturbance and stress as possible. I wouldn't want it to continue that nose rub. Great temps, hydration, a number of tight hide spots for security, and wait a week or two to feed.

Assuming there is no underlying stress/health issue that leads to chronic nose rub, the animal should recover fine, and be on the right track.

Don't let the drama of the situation, and posting, get you too wound up about it. It seems you have made your choice to keep it, so focus on getting her to 100%, and move forward. Lessons learned.

Best of luck!

 

[Susan S.]

If he refused to accept it, the sender would have been notified by Fedex and usually they will return package to sender. No, it would not have died.

 

[Tigger the Tiger]

After looking at the pictures from the ad, and when the OP received the snake, I can almost guarantee that the nose rub happened during transit. I've personally seen snakes do more damage than that in a 6 hour period just by pushing in their turn. The only real thing wrong here is the box, it looks to be to small for a snake of that size, and is probably the reason the snake was pushing. As for the labeling of the box, I personally never put such labels on the outside of the box, and here's the reason why. Labels like that can do more harm than good when it comes to the safety of the animal. A package handler could very well read those labels and refuse to move that package out of fear of what's in it. So now you have a snake or whatever being held up, and not being delivered. Or you could very well have that package mishandled simply put of spite, or the animal(s) stolen. Labeling like that should be placed inside of the box. You wouldn't ship a $30,000 piece of jewelry in a box labeled "very valuable ring", would you

 

[Tigger the Tiger]

Sorry typo "pushing in their tubs "

 

[Chris Kennard]

After looking at the pictures from the ad, and when the OP received the snake, I can almost guarantee that the nose rub happened during transit. I've personally seen snakes do more damage than that in a 6 hour period just by pushing in their turn. The only real thing wrong here is the box, it looks to be to small for a snake of that size, and is probably the reason the snake was pushing. As for the labeling of the box, I personally never put such labels on the outside of the box, and here's the reason why. Labels like that can do more harm than good when it comes to the safety of the animal. A package handler could very well read those labels and refuse to move that package out of fear of what's in it. So now you have a snake or whatever being held up, and not being delivered. Or you could very well have that package mishandled simply put of spite, or the animal(s) stolen. Labeling like that should be placed inside of the box. You wouldn't ship a $30,000 piece of jewelry in a box labeled "very valuable ring", would you

That's a tremendous amount of speculation with regard to package handlers. Inside the box??? Huh whu? Jewelry doesn't bleed, last I checked. Jewelry can't get stressed out during shipping as a result of being bounced around in a small box. Jewelry doesn't count on silly things to survive...like breathing and maintaining a safe body temperature. Just sayin'.

 

[Fangthane]

Labeling like that should be placed inside of the box. You wouldn't ship a $30,000 piece of jewelry in a box labeled "very valuable ring", would you

If one had any interest in complying with a federal law stating that all very valuable rings MUST be shipped in boxes that are labeled "Very Valuable Ring" on the outside, then yes. And, if someone chose to call a vendor to task over the lack of such labeling, I, peronally, would have to view it as a valid warning to anyone else that has an interest in trafficking in such rings without increased governmental scrutiny or regulation.

Things have changed in the past decade, in regards to shipping snakes. It seems that some are stuck in an old-school mindset where everything had to be hidden in the hopes of flying under the radar. That's not the case anymore. When lawful shipping, fully in compliance with FedEx TOS, amounts to little more than following certain guidelines to make sure the snake is safe and secure inside, as well as writing a few words on the box, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense not to do it. At least that's my take on it.