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Info TRUTHS ABOUT THE HIDDEN GENE WOMA THAT ARE IN DIRECT CONFLICT OF KEVIN MCCURELY(NERD)

BTW I notice how people who have never bought from NERD, don't know him or support him in anyway, don't believe you guys.

the ONLY people I've seen stepping up to your defense are your past customers. Seems a little bias to me. Just sayin....
 
EVERYONE PLEASE READ CAREFULLY!!!

Quoted from Clark

Here is a link to a post were a Granite Hidden Gene Woma Pastel was bred to a Lesser Platinum and it clearly shows you 10 or 12 people you can go suck eggs!

http://www.captivebredreptileforums....oulsucker.html

And Joe's response to Clarks post "Clark has it dead on and that is a fact".

But wait a second here...if my photos don't count of my animals neither should the ones in the link above because...drum roll please...

Quoted from Clark
We want to see multiple pictures of multiple clutches of Granite HGW's, Non-Granite HGW's, Granites (real ones), and single Non-Granite mutations or normals all coming out of the eggs together (with the eggs clumped together NOT a bunch of individual eggs or fleshly hatched snakes).

Quoted from Joe
Matt,
A bunch of eggs clumped together. Multiple clutches just step back and take picks of the full clutches coming out with eggs clumped together. With NON Granite HGW's, Granite HGW's, NON Granite single mutations or normals and NON HGW Granites all coming out. Not freshly hatched snakes. Genetically speaking, it should be a piece of cake...

Do you guys really forget the BS you spew that quickly? So now this one clutch which fails all of your criteria for photographic proof is gold? Both of you are officially pathetic
 
Not sure how this has turned into a PHR customer service issue? I purchased a Pastel Het Clown from them, I had no issues with the snake or service other than the he turned out to be a she, which was a plus for me. I never sexed the snake until she as 800gr and I was going to bred him. Their service was fine.

The issue is the HGW vs Woma. It is pretty obvious the PHR Woma is a regular Woma & not the HGW. If Mountain Top & others want to pay the premium for a Woma cross more power to them. If this thread does not show the obvious difference than nothing will. However, I bet Mountain Top will not purchase the Woma crosses at the prices asked.

Joe/Clark- I think we have some clutch shots from last season of our HGW GR YB bred to a normal & Cinnamon. I am not sure they will meet all your criteria, although they might meet Matt's. I am not sure how to post them, but I can send to Matt or someone to post for me.

Just so I am fair, I do think NERD and the HG Lesser is BS. Kevin cannot go against that now since he has sold Soulsuckers at inflated prices under the guise that only his Lessers will produce the true Soulsucker, he has backed himself into a corner on that one and is best addressed by him. This is getting off topic and the whole HG Lesser should be its own thread.
 
how many times are you going to use childish disturbing a motor cons as well as your bullshit to draw the thread off course. I'm amazed at the level of peoples willingness to hide and distort the truth. you make wild accusations without ever having purchased from them and having no proof just tell lies and spread rumors. K. Matthews

It is quiet obvious who is hiding and distorting the truth. Kevin Matthews, enjoy being in the same scammer category as the rest of them. Joe and Clark have proven nothing, and REFUSE to see all the evidence sitting right in front of them that they are WRONG.

I'm going to start calling my Dachshund a German Shepard....cuz apparently if you say it enough times and repeat over and over that you are the ONLY person who is correct and EVERYONE else is wrong, people will start to believe you.

be very careful making your inflammatory statements about my character. The only thing to become obvious to me is interested of the fact that you love to hear yourself lol. it also explains how you have so many posts. I believe they call you a troll lmao. Bye bye.
K. Matthews
 
be very careful making your inflammatory statements about my character. The only thing to become obvious to me is interested of the fact that you love to hear yourself lol. it also explains how you have so many posts. I believe they call you a troll lmao. Bye bye.
K. Matthews

LOL really?? are you going to call your lawyer on me? I have said nothing about your character. I placed you into my personal scammer brain file lol. I have that right. Plus this is a public forum...I can say whatever I wish as long as it follows the rules of the site.

Anyway!! This is a sad sad mess of a thread. Luckily most people will be able to tell the difference in these snakes even while they are being misrepresented. Like I said before, I feel bad for anyone who has fallen for all this crap.
 
For the record, I have NEVER bought from NERD or PHR.

Before this thread, I had never heard of soul suckers or hgw or womas. I think some ball pythons are pretty, but that is far as my interest goes. I now understand more about morphs than I ever thought I would.

Even to my untrained eye, I can see the difference in the snakes that PHR posted & other members here have posted. All the snakes are nice looking, but the ones that are made with hgw, are brighter, crisper and very eye catching. I have yet to see a picture of a snake posted by PHR that has the same qualities, although they are nice looking snakes, they don't have the same vibrancy that the others have.

I find it very telling that Joe and Clark keep "screaming" for proof of (not sure what actually), but when asked to provide the emails they said they had, they dance around the request or ignore it completely.

All they seem to do is regurgitate the same swill over and over.

No matter how many times you say it doesn't make it true.
 
be very careful making your inflammatory statements about my character. The only thing to become obvious to me is interested of the fact that you love to hear lol. it also explains how you have so many posts. I believe they call you a troll lmao. Bye bye.
K. Matthews

Can I just say this statement in bold makes you sound like a complete idiot.

Now to read the while thread.
 
Can I just say this statement in bold makes you sound like a complete idiot.

Now to read the while thread.

I'm sorry but your text made no sense as I don't read mumbo jumbo maybe you'd care to re post it.
and no willow no need for a lawyer. why waste my time with something like that. how to my understanding of the thread you have not stuck to the topic or any actual proof other than your big mouth. so stick a sock in it already and let the thread go back to what it was intended 4.
 
be very careful making your inflammatory statements about my character. The only thing to become obvious to me is interested of the fact that you love to hear yourself lol. it also explains how you have so many posts. I believe they call you a troll lmao. Bye bye.
K. Matthews

I'm rather interested to know why the only two threads you've ever deigned to chime in on are both in vigorous defense of PHR, the first concerning the whiteout vs. washout manufactured controversy.

I use the BOI exclusively as an information source, and this thread has done my head in. I still can't determine whether PHR is claiming that the HG woma gene is inextricably bound to the granite, whether Kevin has withheld information regarding his HG lessers, or whether PHR has in fact produced a legitimate soul sucker. either way I think it's more than obvious that there is no proof whatsoever of any of those claims. as a relative neophyte myself, I'm grateful that people like Kevin, Mike Wilbanks, and Matt from GHI took the time to publicize the information they have.
 
I'm sorry but your text made no sense as I don't read mumbo jumbo maybe you'd care to re post it.
and no willow no need for a lawyer. why waste my time with something like that. how to my understanding of the thread you have not stuck to the topic or any actual proof other than your big mouth. so stick a sock in it already and let the thread go back to what it was intended 4.

Apparently you are unable to read. I put a part of your post in the bold font. That part of your post makes you sound like a complete idiot. Your inability to grasp my meaning tends to lend support to my observation. Unless your are referring to my typo where with typed while instead of whole. In which case I noticed after I posted but couldn't find an edit feature.

If you need any further clarification just ask. I will get my five year old son to explain it to you.
 
Apparently you are unable to read. I put a part of your post in the bold font. That part of your post makes you sound like a complete idiot. Your inability to grasp my meaning tends to lend support to my observation. Unless your are referring to my typo where with typed while instead of whole. In which case I noticed after I posted but couldn't find an edit feature.

If you need any further clarification just ask. I will get my five year old son to explain it to you.

The bold sentence should read:

Unless your are referring to my typo where I typed while instead of whole
 
I'm sorry but your text made no sense as I don't read mumbo jumbo maybe you'd care to re post it.
and no willow no need for a lawyer. why waste my time with something like that. how to my understanding of the thread you have not stuck to the topic or any actual proof other than your big mouth. so stick a sock in it already and let the thread go back to what it was intended 4.

I HAVE stuck on topic...if I had not, a MOD would have informed me so. Luckily this is still a public forum, and you can tell me to shut up all you want... doesn't mean I have to

*opens her big mouth very wide*

Joe and Clark have yet to prove any of the claims they have made with real proof, and their animals are still NOT hidden gene womas :thumbsup:

Keep talking Kevin Matthews, I'm sure your just adding yourself to more and more people's avoid lists.
 
You would also like to keep on about Joe's involvement in Ball Python past which you have all misconstrued like Kevin's snake.


Which part would that be? The part that he stated he was the biggest ball breeder in the world in 2006? Making millions, selling thousands of snakes an hour then following all that up with I'm going to crash the market, put many people out of business? Crash the gecko market? Then he was going to report all yours and his competition in geckos to the IRS?

What part about Joe is being misconstrued? Heck, he stated it all here himself. He stated he was going to dump snakes on the market and crash it. Didn't he do that? Or was it the part that he claimed to be the industry leader in 2006 and never bred or fed a BP himself? You brought it up, so tell us what isn't the truth.

The fact is he has stated most of what people are stating here himself.

Also a fact, He publicly targeted Kevin years ago.

Heck, he still was thanking NERD in 2006 on the MKR Website while he was trashing him in conversations. There has been this maligning of NERD for many years and I believe that is a important context to keep in mind when reading this thread.


I do agree that it is a ridiculous thread, started by Joe Capone though
I had to laugh when I saw you, mike wilbanks and david reid all people who I wouldn't buy from. you know maybe I miss understand the term libel and slanderous but you guys should be bordering on it pretty heavily. so let me get this straight not one of you purchased from him, so you're not unsatisfied customers. well then what are you doing flapping your lips. K. Matthews.

Mr. Mathews, Oh Joe has been pretty loose with his statements on this forum and other places. He doesn't want to go down the libel road.

Joe doesn't tread that line very well and it wouldn't be a smart move.
He has publicly made a lot of derogatory written statements about many breeders and dealers that cross the line a lot more than anyone in this thread has stated.

 
From the whiteout/washout debacle...

I don't like people stealing from the public and selling fake dreams. I have sold some animals short but never misrepresented an animal.

Says the guy who just supposedly sold a $1,500-2,000 animal for $17,500...a grossly misrepresented animal at that:rolleyes:.
 
misconstrue
v misconstrue [ miskən struː]
(formal) to misunderstand; to interpret wrongly That's not what she meant, her statement was misconstrued.

So the original argument of Mr. Joe C. is that Kevin “misunderstood” what was going on with the granite gene.

So let’s just stop right there and contemplate for a moment. The accusation here is that someone who is working with genetics may have misunderstood why something happened. That is ridiculous and silly by it itself, but let me get to my point.

I have a hypothesis about how the behavior of the granite gene might have been slightly misunderstood here.

By the way, a hypothesis, Joe C., is when you make an educated guess about something. It is really a questioning statement. This is what scientific discovery is based on. (Rather than pretending to know things up front, and then saying you will know after your eggs hatch). A Hypothesis, Joe, is what you do if you are trying to make what you consider to be an educated guess about something rather than pretending to know it.

Anyway my hypothesis is that the granite gene became “linked” to the real HG Woma simply because it is sitting close in proximity to the HG Woma on the chromosome. Kevin may have “misconstrued” this information by saying they were “attached” to each other, rather than that they are “linked.”

The idea with linkage is that, the more likely two traits are to being inherited together, the closer they must be sitting next to each other on a chromosome.

Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_linkage

http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/discovery-and-types-of-genetic-linkage-500

So there you are Joe – a hypothesis that explains why granite and hidden gene woma tend to be inherited together so much of the time. Not always, but most of the time.

Of course I am not claiming to know this to be true simply because I typed it, but it would explain what is going on if it is correct.

Chad Leever
 
I had to laugh when I saw you, mike wilbanks and david reid all people who I wouldn't buy from. you know maybe I miss understand the term libel and slanderous but you guys should be bordering on it pretty heavily. so let me get this straight not one of you purchased from him, so you're not unsatisfied customers. well then what are you doing flapping your lips. K. Matthews.

The perfect defense for libel and slander is the "Truth". People can make derogatory statements about other people and businesses as long as the statements are true. If that were not the case, there would not be a Better Business Bureau, Angies List or a FAUNA BOI. Everything I said here was true. I gave my opinion on the pictures posted of the HGW and the PHR animals and a little history of Joe for those that might not remember. Then after reading the "washout" thread, I felt silly because you all know all about him from even the recent past. Sorry, I don't come here much, but when someone is making an earth shattering claim as big as Kevin McCurley has been lying about HGW, then I had to read for myself. Now that is slanderous.

I will make one statement that I could be sued for. I am pretty sure after slogging through the washout thread that mountaintop is Joe Capone. He started his account around that time and he only posts in defense of Clark and Joe. I can't prove that so, Mr. Matthews if you feel I have slandered you by saying you are Joe I guess you should have me served and show your damages.
 
I would like to chime in a bit..... And I am not going to sugar coat a thing. Hope to make Chuck proud.

1) Kevin and I have had our differences. Nothing about him lying. Nothing about his breeding it was about venomoids. I have spoke with Kevin a few times sense our disagreement. Kevin is an honest guy. He tells people like it is. He does not need to lie. He has given to the market more then he has taken IMO. So Kevin has nothing to prove IMO.

2) Joe and Clark. I do not know Clark. I never heard of him until him and Joe became partners. Or Joe became the money man behind the scenes. But Joe does not stay behind the scenes. HE SHOULD HAVE!

Joe is a joke. He went public back in the day telling everyone he was going to crash a market. Then when it did not work out he did not have the BEL to sell he was stuck.....

Joe you are a fricken salesmen. You know asvwell as I that anyway to get your name out there it will help with atleast one sale. Where you are wrong is if would have just been honest and had morals from the start you could be one of the biggest names in the market today. but your past is haunting you and your present is killing you.

Clark.... I will tall you this. I always just pass over your ads. I do not know you but I have seen what Joe has done and how he carries himself in private emails and where the public can not see it. He is your down fall. He is your black eye.

Sure you guys will sell. There is a list of bad guys that even post here that sell everyday. but at the end of the day can you tell yourself that you sold honestly and helped the market so the people you sell to can have something to look forward too?

You can always tell the money hungry from the passionate people.

Kevin
Mike Wilbanks
Brian at BHB
Matt from GHI
Bell

These people and many more truly love the animals. They took something they love and are making a living at it. They did not look in and say well you can make money at animals so lets give it a go. NO they loved the hobby and loved the history of it all. You can never take that away. You can tell by just taking to them. The money becomes second every time. No matter what you get these guys talking animals you will never hear them say yeah I breed a 100000000.00 ball python. You will hear them say check out the look of this animal isn't she hot.... Look at this paint job... I mean I remember when Kevin started up the tokay gecko thing. He was in ahhhh about it.

Joe you are doing all this for nothing but to put a buck in your pocket. There is nothing wrong with making a living at this. but you sr are nothing more then a money hungry want to be. Because as soon as you stop making money at this you will drop it like a bad habit....

While the rest will stay in it because we can not and will not give up on our passion............

So in the end

Kevin....... Brother..... Just keep rockin on.

Joe and Clark..... I am ashamed to say you are even part of the hobby I love.
 
The perfect defense for libel and slander is the "Truth". People can make derogatory statements about other people and businesses as long as the statements are true. If that were not the case, there would not be a Better Business Bureau, Angies List or a FAUNA BOI. Everything I said here was true. I gave my opinion on the pictures posted of the HGW and the PHR animals and a little history of Joe for those that might not remember. Then after reading the "washout" thread, I felt silly because you all know all about him from even the recent past. Sorry, I don't come here much, but when someone is making an earth shattering claim as big as Kevin McCurley has been lying about HGW, then I had to read for myself. Now that is slanderous.

I will make one statement that I could be sued for. I am pretty sure after slogging through the washout thread that mountaintop is Joe Capone. He started his account around that time and he only posts in defense of Clark and Joe. I can't prove that so, Mr. Matthews if you feel I have slandered you by saying you are Joe I guess you should have me served and show your damages.

Mike,
Sorry you are wrong. Mountain Top, Kevin Mathews lives on the West Coast. Nice Try

Just like I told you Lesser Platinums crossed to Mojaves will make a white snake at Bob Clark's facility when I was picking up a female G stripe back in 03 I think. You disagreed and said I don't think so. Wes was there as well. Bob even came over early to Wes's to pip the eggs early to see if we made a white snake which we did.

I am sorry you are mad at me that Jonathon and Amir tried to hijack my washout morph and never even made one. Just made claims that the citrus pastel would make WASHOUT which is 100% false. They sold a lot of them at very high inflated prices because of it. We have a clutch coming out right now and we can't stop making them. I am not sorry and don't care that you don't like the name I dubbed it.

I am also not sorry that you can't hit the link in Clark's post and see that there are on Granites or NON Granite Hidden Gene Womas posted.

I took it a little personal because Kevin and I have and had personal conflicts between each other. My tact maybe a little off but we aren't wrong here period.

I don't bust markets, I just sell snakes for what they are truly worth period. The market was a much different place back in 06 and I did run my mouth a little bit. For that I am sorry. I was completely provoked by people like Kevin and Ralph behind the scenes sending people on the forums to fight with me. I don't do that anymore.

This is it for me
 
Don't do it anymore..... You have done it many times right here..... Why not sell your snakes for 20% more then market... see how many you sell then.... But make sure you are honest about what they are.

Anyone can breed and sell for tons under market..... Shoot that is how all the people with questionable reps do it...............................
 
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