What kind of damage do you think this girl got?

[~Just Curious~]

I have an '11 western hognose that tried to squeeze through a tight hole that was too narrow for her. (Story on another thread http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1465074#post1465074 ) She was very firmly stuck, I can't even imagine how she managed to jam herself that far through, and she could have been stuck there for up to twenty-seven hours.

I handled her as gently as possible and didn't feel anything "wrong", but I do know that she struggled quite a bit before I found her - on her neck there's broken scales and many patches that have been scraped off and are now a ugly reddish grey. I'm afraid that I wasn't able to get any good pictures of it yesterday (I'll try again some other time) so you can't really see it's proper color in these photos...

That white stuff was just butter I was trying to use as a lubricant. At the time it was convenient and I didn't see anything bad about it. I gently washed it off afterwards, but could it possibly be harmful to her?

It's been a week since she last ate and her meal had already passed, yet her belly was quite swollen and puffy during all this.

And once I removed her, I saw some blood underneath her scales. Not an open wound, but not normal either. Her underside has always just been a smooth, toffee color.

Superficial skin damage and broken scales (things that can just shed out) don't worry me, I'm mostly concerned about that severe swelling and the "bruising" (the faint possiblity of internal damage to her heart, lung, ribs etc) that may have been brought about by the tight squeeze or her flailing around.
She was already looked over by a vet and I was more or less told that there was no point in running tests for those sort of things because even if we did find them, there wouldn't really be anything we could do anyways. He has a lot of experience though and guessed that while she probably has some fractured ribs, everything would probably heal fine so I just needed to watch out for infections.
I've been instructed to give her daily betadine soaks. I'm also putting polybactrin on her which he said "couldn't hurt".

I know the professional's probably right and no one can really say anything without actually seeing her, but I was just hoping to get some other opinions and maybe hear some similar stories. What kind of damage would you usually expect from this sort of accident? If her ribs truly are fractured, does anyone have an idea of about when they'd be healed once more? Any other advice on how to treat her?

Lastly he told me that I should feed her as I would normally, which would have meant some big frozen/thawed mice fuzzies yesterday, but I was going to wait until Friday to watch her and at least let her recover from the stress. Plus I'd like to go back to feeding her multiple large pinks for a while, since fuzzies require her to stretch and I don't want her to strain. (She only moved to fuzzies very recently.) but he said none of that was needed. I just want to know if those are bad ideas or could do more harm than good.

I know I'm paranoid over my babies, but thank you very much in advance for your help. Any and all comments on the matter are welcome~

 

[AbsoluteApril]

scary! I had a boa get her head stuck in the plastic loop at the end of one of her fake plants. Had to cut it off her head which meant sticking scissors under there squeezing it even more. She healed up fine, was a bit 'misshapen' for a small time and always had some discolored scales where they got damaged.

They are very resilant and flexible. If, and that's an if, any ribs were broken, they should heal up. You may see some thickening of the bones in the area where they heal. Just keep her clean and hydrated. Good for you to take to the vet!

 

[~Just Curious~]

scary! I had a boa get her head stuck in the plastic loop at the end of one of her fake plants. Had to cut it off her head which meant sticking scissors under there squeezing it even more. She healed up fine, was a bit 'misshapen' for a small time and always had some discolored scales where they got damaged.

They are very resilant and flexible. If, and that's an if, any ribs were broken, they should heal up. You may see some thickening of the bones in the area where they heal. Just keep her clean and hydrated. Good for you to take to the vet!

Thank you so much for the advice and also for sharing your story, it really helps having an idea of what to expect! I'm so glad to hear that your boa healed well!
I know how scary it is having to take shears so close to them too...

I just glanced at her briefly today - she's still very swollen on her belly in that area (a bruise?) and didn't react much to me. I got some tongue flicks, but she didn't raise her head and normally she'd start moving all over if I wake her. I'm assuming that she's just tuckered out from yesterday and needs to rest, so I let her be. Does that sound right after some trauma?
Also she wants to stay buried as far as possible on the hot side. I'm guessing that wanting heat is just part of healing...? Because usually I would never see her all the way over there, especially since she hasn't eaten recently, and she doesn't typically stay buried like that when I'm around. I think the hiding seems normal after so much stress, but what about the heat? If it helps her, should I bump the hotspot up a degree or two?

I apologize in advance everyone, I know I'm asking a ton of questions, but I'm still fairly new to this and want to learn as much as possible. Thank you!!!

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Yeah, she should be fine, hiding a bit more is normal, she may be like that for a week or so as she heals. I also think staying on the heat is fine, probably trying to help her body heal as quickly as possible. I'm not sure if I would bump it up, but I don't see any issues with her sticking to the hot side for a little while. Yeah, the dark belly is most likely an under-the-skin bruise, it may take a while for that to subside or go back to a more normal color.

I also had a baby corn that escaped, ended up in one of my ATB cages (the ATB cage was open, I had that snake overnight soaking...) anyways, the next day I found the ATB constricting the corn (ATB males are territorial) - the corn was fine but very.. mushed up and looked broken. I thought ribs were broken but they were not. After about 2 sheds, the corn was back to normal shape and all bruising/darkness on the belly was gone. It was so scary though! I wasn't sure it was going to pull through. Terrible pic but you can kind of see how the sides are all bent out of shape, and the dark bruising in the back near my fingers.

yeah, I've had lots of weird things happen over the years!

You're such a good snake mom Autumn! Can tell how much you care by the passion in your posts.

 

[~Just Curious~]

D'awww, thanks! I'm sure you can relate, pets just become part of the family. The hoggie that this happened to, Polly, is really just the sweetest thing. You can't help but love her when she pokes you with that snout! <3

So thanks for the advice, I'll leave the temps the same and try to avoid stressing her out while keeping her clean and hydrated.
This is my first real experience with an injury like that on a reptile, so it's very comforting when I hear similar stories that turned out well. Knowing this is likely a typical process takes a load off my mind!
I can tell you've kinda seen it all too. I'm sorry to hear about that mishap with the young corn, I know it must have been terrifying for you, but I'm glad it pulled through and bounced back! I find that amazing, it really is a testiment to how resilant they can be and it's encouraging to hear~

Thank you again April!!!

 

[Helenthereef]

How is she?

 

[~Just Curious~]

Such a short, simple question - why can't I give a short, simple answer? My apologies

How is she?

I think Polly's doing okay, thank you very much for asking!
So I did end up feeding her that Friday, I gave her smaller meals so she didn't have to strain and she ended up eating five f/t pinks. She didn't have her usual appetite though, normally she's such a hog and just inhales everything (even tries for my fingers once they're all gone) however that time she really didn't seem to care much. Even though the meals were tiny, it took her a very long time to eat. She was unusually sluggish and at one point she stopped midmouthful to just lay there breathing heavily. Perhaps she was still sore or stressed?
I wouldn't say she's lethargic though because she's gone back to small defensive displays and fleeing whenever I open her tub. She's clearly not happy and was still spending most of her time hiding. (Even before she showed signs of shed) It's a bit depressing since she used to be the sweetest thing, always coming over to investigate you... but I'm thinking that's normal and if she gets better, she'll relax again in time, so I've been leaving her alone as much as possible to help her recuperate.

She passed those pinks fine and then I noticed on the 14th that she was going into shed, so she hasn't been fed since. I figure the injury must have triggered the cycle early because her last one was barely a month ago and usually she goes 2-3 months in between.
I provided her with a moist shed box like usual and she's been in it, but it didn't occur to me until recently that perhaps the humidity is bad for her wounds...? I know that you're supposed to keep them hot and dry to prevent infections, so is giving her this damp cave more harm than good?

The reason I'm concerned is that recently the wounds seem so much darker, almost black in some places. I'm wondering if that's just a new healing phase of the bruise, dried blood, or is it perhaps a sign of infection?
I tried to get some pictures, but I know I'm a horrible photographer and I don't understand cameras, so the end result here is that the color/lighting is off. It makes everything look brighter and more red.

Annoyed hoggie

In real life, the scrapes look darker than that and my skin isn't so pink...

These strange dark spots are more obvious on her belly. Normally it's just a toffee color with some yellow pieces.

See that poor girl's face up there? That's a hog asking "Why are you doing this to me!?"

I know it really looks like she's gotten into something, but I'm sure she hasn't defecated since and there's nothing else in her enclosure but clean aspen. Even her shed box has a damp paper towel instead of moss at the moment. Also I tried to gently wipe some off after a betadine soak and it seems to be beneath the scales...

Does this sound like normal healing?
She's no longer white, so I figure she's due to shed any day now. I'm waiting for that to see, I've got my fingers crossed that it'll go away then.

Sorry for my ramblings! To answer your question Helen, I think she's doing well overall. She's moving around, she ate, she processed it etc etc I was most worried about internal damage when this first happened, but now I'm thinking that if there was something wrong with her organs it would have been apparent by now, so... yay?

Thank you so much for your concern!!!

 

[Helenthereef]

Don't worry, I understand the ramblings - there's a lot of possibilities going on. I wish I had helpful advice.

I do know that snakes often do shed out of their normal time if there has been a problem (I had one shed again properly only a week after a "bitty" shed once).

I'd think that if you are concerned about skin infection, you are doing the best thing by bathing her in a weak betadine solution. I usually run my snakes through a towel after such a soak just to make sure there isn't excess moisture afterwards.

Do keep posting, I'm hoping to see her looking better soon.

 

[~Just Curious~]

Don't worry, I understand the ramblings - there's a lot of possibilities going on. I wish I had helpful advice.

I do know that snakes often do shed out of their normal time if there has been a problem (I had one shed again properly only a week after a "bitty" shed once).

I'd think that if you are concerned about skin infection, you are doing the best thing by bathing her in a weak betadine solution. I usually run my snakes through a towel after such a soak just to make sure there isn't excess moisture afterwards.

Do keep posting, I'm hoping to see her looking better soon.

Thanks so much, that's good to know!

I'm hoping that she'll look a lot better after she sheds, so I'll update things then~
Thanks again!

 

[~Just Curious~]

So Polly did shed yesterday! It was a rough one, which I'm thinking might be from the broken scales snagging or something since she's never had a problem with incomplete sheds before, but it all peeled off after a quick soak.
And her belly looks loads better! Now there's only two small places where you can see damage and there's no more off colors at all! I never did find the source of those black bits, but they're all gone now.
Her back and sides haven't changed however, it still has those same dark grey patches of discoloration. It doesn't appear to be infected or anything; I'm thinking that it may start to lessen after a few more sheds...

Even if she stays forever patchworked though, I wouldn't mind so long as she's doing good. She had three more f/t pinks and seems fine, so I'm over the moon!
The only thing that might concern me is her appetite, three pinks aren't much and she ate slowly again, but I'm still leaning towards stress for causing that. Hopefully she'll return to her old, hearty self in no time~

 

[AbsoluteApril]

fantastic news!! I'm glad to hear she's already showing that much improvement. I bet her appetite will pick up again soon.
Yay!

 

[Helenthereef]

Glad to hear it. Maybe she has some internal bruising too, hence keeping to small meals. New photos would be great if you get time.

 

[~Just Curious~]

Thank you both so much for your kind words!!!

Sorry it took so long to get pics, but I managed to take these yesterday. (I know it's the same counter backdrop, but these are new pics. You can compare them to the ones I took on the 19th to see how she's improved) Unfortunately my photography skills have not improved.

Hopefully you can see that the dark marks on her back have receded a tad, but are definitely still there some. Not the best picture...

This was taken with a flash when I first opened her tub. The flash lightens the "bruise" and makes the damaged area appear almost pinkish grey.

Honestly it's one of those things where if you weren't familiar with her, it'd probably go unnoticed. But it is there~
I'm glad it's nothing worse!

 

[Helenthereef]

As you say, not very noticeable to me, but that's a good thing. Any scale damage or just the bruising?

 

[~Just Curious~]

Definitely!

Fortunately, with the exception of two small spots on her belly, the broken scales seem to have all healed when she shed! She used to be all rough on her back there and you could see some bent ones jutting out (You can see a little in the first post) however now only the slight discoloration remains!

Also even though she's still acting more scared than she used to, she just ate again! Six small pinks this time~
I'm very happy with her recovery!

 

[Helenthereef]

Happy to hear it, she had quite an adventure!