Info Kelly Gottberg/KY Reptiles... I'd like your opinion?

[Amelanistic Orca]

Here we go.. Just an FYI/Info thread. They say pictures say a thousand words; so here we grow! I am making this short, simple and real sweet.

Opinions are welcome on what happened to the snake's lower lip. I/we have my/our own. The keeled scaling on the back/top line towards the lower half of this Granite is evidence of keeping a Ball 'too dry' IMHO. Not a real big deal... She was also dehydrated upon 'getting home' with her that day(30+ days ago), no worries, it is hot here in Az. and I dismissed that.

She was also in a shed when I got her, BUT, she was stuffed with a "good/borderline too big" sized rodent for her sizing, just MHO. Kelly mentioned that she was fed that day, I still wonder if that was before I inquired on her and headed that way within the hour, or if she was fed/force-fed right away after my inquiry?

After a few days at my place in QT, and after shedding, this is what we found on her lower lip. I wasn't happy, but knew I could 'repair' her. The swelling is evidence of her 'wearing this' for a few short days IMHO, and there is nothing here that could have made that happen to her in her 'shoebox' tub..

No real big deal, just thought the community needed to see what to expect from her, as I was shocked and dismayed after looking at the 'whole' picture. Hopefully this is/was an isolated incident?

For those worried about the Granite Female, she is doing excellent right now in her recovery after 30 something days like this. No more swelling, all pink and red inflammation/infection has turned to white, letting me know she is on an uphill travel and eating well. Those holes are still in that lip, and, best guesses, that'll take a year plus to recover from..

FWIW, Kelly knows this is coming, and was made well aware of this problem. To which I honestly don't think she had much concern, she had her cash already..

This thread may get entertaining with some of the FB drama that went on with Kelly's 'friends,' it may not. I am prepared to OWN everything I have done in this situation, as I went 'BIG' in defense of some of the stuff that was posted about me. You know who you are. Sometimes I don't play nice when you attack/slander me/my name/reputation, and I own that with "title in hand."

So, without further ado, here we are..

 

[Fangthane]

I'm glad to hear that the snake's improving in your care. That snake definitely looks a little rough. I don't think I've ever seen that particular type of mouth injury before. If she's been fed live, I'd guess it's from a rat latching on to her.

You mention the possibility of her having been force-fed after your inquiry. I'm curious as to why you came to that conclusion. Has she refuse to eat voluntarily for you, and you think the force-feeding was meant to cover up the fact that she wasn't as good of an eater as you were led to believe?

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

I'm glad to hear that the snake's improving in your care. That snake definitely looks a little rough. I don't think I've ever seen that particular type of mouth injury before. If she's been fed live, I'd guess it's from a rat latching on to her.

You mention the possibility of her having been force-fed after your inquiry. I'm curious as to why you came to that conclusion. Has she refuse to eat voluntarily for you, and you think the force-feeding was meant to cover up the fact that she wasn't as good of an eater as you were led to believe?

That's a great question Dan.... Either a large prey item latched on, or, she was forcefully, and I guess I mean, just slammed a rat pup down her gullet rendering the lip over the teeth and penetrating the skin/scales/lip... Just guesses.

Kelly mentioned that 'she' only took rat pups, they couldn't cause that damage, that was the weirdest part. In my care, she has taken 'crawler' pups with gusto and seems to be enjoying herself. Thank you for your post, and concern.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Proof of not caring? You be the judge one more time? I apologize for having to do this...

 

[Focal]

... just slammed a rat pup down her gullet rendering the lip over the teeth and penetrating the skin/scales/lip... Just guesses.

Hey Tom, I'm not judging here, but I don't think this could have happened although it seems plausible. The angle and gaps just don't seem right to be a self-inflicted injury.

I know this is an info thread, but she offered to take the animal back. What resolution were you looking for? Usually info threads, at least of this nature, lead me to believe that there was some ill intent. Do you not believe this may have been an honest mistake? Or was it more the backlash of bringing it to her attention?

Both of you are respected members of the community, so I'm just trying to get a feel for what went wrong

 

[Focal]

After looking at the pictures some more, there does appear to be a few other scars consistent with live feeding.

 

[Fangthane]

FWIW, Kelly knows this is coming, and was made well aware of this problem. To which I honestly don't think she had much concern, she had her cash already.. .
This thread may get entertaining with some of the FB drama that went on with Kelly's 'friends,' it may not. ...

Proof of not caring? You be the judge one more time? I apologize for having to do this...

Aside from being scarred, dehydrated, and having some undisclosed holes in the lip, perfect snake. If I were a legitimate business, I can't say I'd feel very good about having an animal in that condition being thought of as the type of quality that buyers could expect from me.

The only real point of contention that I could see is that this was a face to face deal, where you had the opportunity to check it out in person, before paying. However, according to her FB post, she offered to take the snake back anyway, and you declined. Which seemingly should have ended it. So, where exactly does the drama come into play?

 

[DaveyFig]

I have seen marks like that made by a snake being bit on the face by another snake that latched on.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

That is a tough call Nick. I appreciate that feedback. And in all honesty, I am not looking for anything, I am doing this for you, and everybody else. What brought this here is slandering my name by her friends and her on FB..

That is it. It's up, it's aired, I'm ok with everything, the snake will live and thrive now in our care.. I'm curious, would this be "ok" to you, or anybody else out there? I'm kind of wondering if the marks on her back are gnaw marks from rodents that are on the tail end of healing?

All in all, a subpar transaction, would you agree Nick?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I have seen marks like that made by a snake being bit on the face by another snake that latched on.

Actually Dave, I was just about to post the same thing. I had a local kid call me who feed two snakes in the same cage once and had one hit the other. When I came and took a look at them I noticed the same thing. I'm not suggesting that is what happen to this snake but that I have seen what appears to be the same type of injury.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Aside from being scarred, dehydrated, and having some undisclosed holes in the lip, perfect snake. If I were a legitimate business, I can't say I'd feel very good about having an animal in that condition being thought of as the type of quality that buyers could expect from me.

The only real point of contention that I could see is that this was a face to face deal, where you had the opportunity to check it out in person, before paying. However, according to her FB post, she offered to take the snake back anyway, and you declined. Which seemingly should have ended it. So, where exactly does the drama come into play?

That part in bold sounds bad after I re-read it in my head a few times. Doesn't it.. In all honesty, her, and her friends earned her this airing of laundry to be perfectly honest. I think that it is fair that you all should see this though, am I wrong here? I've been wrong before.

And furthermore, I don't like comments about "missing ailments" when a transaction is 'face to face.' That is an unfair assumption, but I'll tell ya what, I'd love to bring my Microscope on stuff like this to check for Parasites right in a parking lot and 'face to face.'

I have missed some wild stuff/injuries/ailments over the years. Can anybody attest to that? I am pretty keen on stuff, but, I will admit I have missed RI's that were subtle till heated correctly, askew jaw lines, bumps, kinks, mite egg sacks attached to animals, cancerous masses etc etc. It can happen! And, it does, and did right here. Also why I only add snakes to my collection rarely, and very cautiously. I guarantee you that I was okay with the 'dryness' that she appeared to be sporting, but, I am not okay with the holes..

I hardly air stuff like this. I have taken stuff like this in the shorts to the tune of thousands of dollars and not come here. The FB stuff got this here on a $125 snake. Without a doubt.

Kelly is new IMO, you can jump on her side all day, no worries, maybe this is an isolated incident? Unacceptable in my books, but, could be? You can give her all the credit you want, but, I am not impressed with this.. And, like getting speed bumps in on a residential street with none, somebody's kid has to get hit by a car first to make a change... so this is me taking that hit. I aired it, 'tis all. Thanks.

 

[DaveyFig]

The only other time I have seen gashes that cut across scales like that is when I have dissected snakes that have passed away. The initial cuts always tend to look like that.

It just doesn't look like a scrape, a rodent bite, or holes caused by infection. It looks like cuts.

I have had a snake get its top teeth stuck in the bottom part of its mouth from striking glass, but it didn't cut like that. I had to use tweezers to get it separated, and I could see it tearing like that if done hastily.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

The only other time I have seen gashes that cut across scales like that is when I have dissected snakes that have passed away. The initial cuts always tend to look like that.

It just doesn't look like a scrape, a rodent bite, or holes caused by infection. It looks like cuts.

I have had a snake get its top teeth stuck in the bottom part of its mouth from striking glass, but it didn't cut like that. I had to use tweezers to get it separated, and I could see it tearing like that if done hastily.

Those three holes are through and through Dave. I really am glad that you mentioned the 'another snake' latching on comment.. I am positive I have seen pics of Kelly's with more than one animal in what appeared to be a 'housing' tub. And, I guess I mean that as there was bedding in the photo, a water dish, and what not? Who knows...

I am leaning on that assumption now Dave, and Dennis, that is what I was looking for in here from some peers. Great job with your thinking caps on. Thank you tenfold. I don't keep Ball's together, especially while QT.... so, that leaves me out.

 

[Fangthane]

That part in bold sounds bad after I re-read it in my head a few times. Doesn't it.. In all honesty, her, and her friends earned her this airing of laundry to be perfectly honest. I think that it is fair that you all should see this though, am I wrong here? I've been wrong before.

It's an "INFO" thread, and this seems like pertinent information that one might want to take into consideration before doing business with her. As such, it seems like a valid thread, at least to me.

And furthermore, I don't like comments about "missing ailments" when a transaction is 'face to face.' That is an unfair assumption, but I'll tell ya what, I'd love to bring my Microscope on stuff like this to check for Parasites right in a parking lot and 'face to face.'.....

Kelly is new IMO, you can jump on her side all day, no worries, maybe this is an isolated incident? Unacceptable in my books, but, could be? You can give her all the credit you want, but, I am not impressed with this.. And, like getting speed bumps in on a residential street with none, somebody's kid has to get hit by a car first to make a change... so this is me taking that hit. I aired it, 'tis all. Thanks.

Whoa. Think you're reading more into my statements than is actually there. I can't see that I've said anything that could even remotely be construed as me jumping on her bandwagon. I was speculating as to why exactly it turned into a FB cluster. The premise that the buyer should thoroughly inspect the goods, when given the opportunity, has been cited before as a reason for a seller to not take responsibility when problems arise after an in-person transaction. Since the off-site back and forth isn't available, I was basically thinking out loud.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

It's an "INFO" thread, and this seems like pertinent information that one might want to take into consideration before doing business with her. As such, it seems like a valid thread, at least to me.


Whoa. Think you're reading more into my statements than is actually there. I can't see that I've said anything that could even remotely be construed as me jumping on her bandwagon. I was speculating as to why exactly it turned into a FB cluster. The premise that the buyer should thoroughly inspect the goods, when given the opportunity, has been cited before as a reason for a seller to not take responsibility when problems arise after an in-person transaction. Since the off-site back and forth isn't available, I was basically thinking out loud.

Roger that Dan. Definitely appeared that I was singling you out for that, but, I wasn't, it's tuff to convey stuff correctly through typing, ain't it. I absolutely see your stance on this sir. No worries. Thank you for your posts throughout.

To me, the 'checking the goods' stuff is great, I agree, but, have you ever bought something that appeared to be sealed at Wally World, or anywhere else.... just to get home and realize that someone stole the screws outta the product because they were shorted, or lost them, and you had to go back to the store to request them? Could you imagine the look on your face if the cashier said something similar to you in that notion? You were 'face to face' with it... Totally not worthy. lol.

I totally understand where you are coming from. I ain't crying, Imma rather big boy, trust me, I'm good, the snake is mint now, kinda, but, seriously, that snake ain't going back to the person who got it like that. No way. I made a rare exception to deal with a 'slight' basket case. I stand by it, and I'm happy she's here.. No biggie.

The only thing I think that speaks volumes to me is the (hands in the air), 'lemme know what happens' type of comment she made when first made aware of said issues. Idda wanted that/my snake brought back to me asap to rectify the situation. But, that is just me...

I just recently(yesterday) sent her an update that the snake was fine, 30 something days after these pics. I got a text back that was impressively unconcerned about it/her.. I immediately erased the worthless reply and was done..

Then the drama came out on 'good ol' Facebook slandering me left and right by her friends within I'd say, an hour or two. And continues as i type this and flip back to the Group's page on FB.

 

[hypnoctopus]

Those holes look bad. Hopefully she will thrive in your care and no other problems will present themselves. If I ever want a ball python, I most likely won't be getting one from her.

 

[Fangthane]

Roger that Dan. Definitely appeared that I was singling you out for that, but, I wasn't, it's tuff to convey stuff correctly through typing, ain't it. I absolutely see your stance on this sir. No worries. Thank you for your posts throughout.

No doubt. Sometimes it's hard to properly convey tone and timbre, in such an impersonal medium. I definitely took it as being aimed at me.

Then the drama came out on 'good ol' Facebook slandering me left and right by her friends within I'd say, an hour or two. And continues as i type this and flip back to the Group's page on FB.

While I have a FaceBook account, I think it's a basically worthless site and I pretty much never use it. As such, I have no idea how common this type of thing might be on there.
However, in and of itself, this aspect alone my be worth having started this type of thread. As a potential buyer, who wants to face the possibility of being harassed by a bunch of keyboard commandos for doing nothing more than calling their friend to task over legitimate concerns?

 

[A&S Reptiles]

First off, you are making alot of assumptions and even said you were leaning on one. The BOI is not about assumptions, it's about facts. What proof do you have that she force fed that snake if she's been slamming rats for you? If a pup gets its teeth in the right spot it can cause damage. Also, the scar marks are just that, SCARS. They are from the previous owner as Kelly did not produce this snake. I saw it and several others when she bought them and this one already had the healed scars. Another assumption, what facts do you have that she keeps her animals in the same tub? Have you even seen her set up and collection. I've been there countless times. Everyone is housed separately and fed separately. I have also bought animals from her, one of which is thriving in my collection now still. You should have looked over the snake, if this was such a "bad infection" how did you miss it? She was treating the wound with neosporin. You have no facts, just assumptions.

 

[Fangthane]

You should have looked over the snake, if this was such a "bad infection" how did you miss it? She was treating the wound with neosporin. You have no facts, just assumptions.

According to the screenshot of what I'm assuming is a FB conversation from post # 4, she claims she didn't even know that the wound existed. She didn't know it was there, but just happened to feel the need to rub Neosporin on that area anyway?

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

First off, you are making alot of assumptions and even said you were leaning on one. The BOI is not about assumptions, it's about facts. What proof do you have that she force fed that snake if she's been slamming rats for you? If a pup gets its teeth in the right spot it can cause damage. Also, the scar marks are just that, SCARS. They are from the previous owner as Kelly did not produce this snake. I saw it and several others when she bought them and this one already had the healed scars. Another assumption, what facts do you have that she keeps her animals in the same tub? Have you even seen her set up and collection. I've been there countless times. Everyone is housed separately and fed separately. I have also bought animals from her, one of which is thriving in my collection now still. You should have looked over the snake, if this was such a "bad infection" how did you miss it? She was treating the wound with neosporin. You have no facts, just assumptions.

Main tortfeasor right here ^... Samantha, please you just ruined it for your buddy in bold... I am going to say this as well, while this is an INFO thread on Kelly, they need a whole new title for you Samantha. I'll submit a request for that.. You are young, new, and outta control... Thanks.