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Bad Guy Lloyd Heilbrunn

CJReptiles said:
I would also like to add that the snakes were packed and shipped by Ben Seigle for Lloyd. Ben would never sent out snakes in that condition. Never...
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He did.

CJReptiles said:
Just about everything this guy has said is not truthful.
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Looks like just about everything he said was confirmed by Lloyd, who apparently has seen the vet reports.


CJReptiles said:
Lloyd is a personal friend of mine, he would have never shipped an animal with open sores.. Lloyd is a Lawyer, I will contact him tomorrow concerning this thread. Not sure but this may be slander on your part and you may suffer legal actions.. Did you even call him before running him through the trenches?
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The sores may not have been open, but they were there. I don't see a case for slander (libel) here.
 
RossCA said:
Here's the pictures Jeremy sent me to post.
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It looks like the sores run down much of the spine, and appear randomly on the side of the snake too. The ones on the spine appear to be farther along in the healing process.
 
I think both sides could have done better in this transaction. Lloyd, in my personal opinion, if I had bought a snake that had scabs and something wrong with the tail, I'd have wanted my seller to tell me about it. I think you should have let your buyer know.

Buyer, the vet apparently did not find mites and I do not know one way or the other whether they mites came with your snake or whether they were the cause of the damage. But, you had every right to say something about a snake received in that condition.

You did, and you came to a resolution with your seller. I think you should have disclosed more about the agreement when you posted here, it was relevant, even though you had every right to post about the transaction and be unhappy with it.
You said very little and got upset when asked for more, even though there was much more to tell.

Communications. They can do a world of good in transactions.
 
I did not mention the mites because amazingly after 20 years of keeping herps I never had a snake mite before and wasn't really thinking about them. Lloyd is absolutely correct, i didn't not mention mites until 3 weeks later because that is when I observed them crawling across my hands after handling that female. I checked every animal in my collection and the texas were the only critters I found mites on. Just to be safe I spent my only days off this month treating my entire collection and facility for mites, risking death or injury to the texas and all my other animals due to insecticide treatments. . I emailed Lloyd and told him about the mites and never even recieved a reply. At that point I decided I had been more than accomodating considering I never even received a real apology and to be hionest was in a bad mood after working my arse off treating for mites that all evidence indicates were introduced by the beautiful indigos. I do my share of online trading and I would personally not consider the way I was treated acceptable business practice therefore I made this post. Lloyd is probably not a bad guy and probably sells mostly good animals but maybe needs to learn how to treat customers especially when large sums of money are involved. end of story
 
jwarren1 said:
I did not mention the mites because amazingly after 20 years of keeping herps I never had a snake mite before and wasn't really thinking about them. Lloyd is absolutely correct, i didn't not mention mites until 3 weeks later because that is when I observed them crawling across my hands after handling that female. I checked every animal in my collection and the texas were the only critters I found mites on. Just to be safe I spent my only days off this month treating my entire collection and facility for mites, risking death or injury to the texas and all my other animals due to insecticide treatments. . I emailed Lloyd and told him about the mites and never even recieved a reply. At that point I decided I had been more than accomodating considering I never even received a real apology and to be hionest was in a bad mood after working my arse off treating for mites that all evidence indicates were introduced by the beautiful indigos. I do my share of online trading and I would personally not consider the way I was treated acceptable business practice therefore I made this post. Lloyd is probably not a bad guy and probably sells mostly good animals but maybe needs to learn how to treat customers especially when large sums of money are involved. end of story
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Hey Jeremy, if those issues (scabs/missing tail tip) were never disclosed then you have every right to be ticked off. No question. A pair of melanurus as restitution to reimburse you for the hassle is a very fair gesture.

Bottom line, for $2600 I think any reasonable dry keeper would expect a perfect pair of erebennus.

I'm still a little confused - were the snakes in the care of Ben Siegel? OR were they just dropped off, packed up and shipped by Ben?
 
ps- the indigo is doing ok considering the damage, I think the scars will heal up fine, its amazing what some decent husbandry practice will do for an animal
 
The only thing that I'm guilty of is sticking up for a friend.you led Lloyd on by letting him think the resolution you agreed on was final. Then you came here and trashed him. You should have picked up the phone and called him and talked It over to give him the chance to make it right..
 
CJReptiles said:
Yeah I have something to say. You are a you know what. To accept the deal Lloyd made with you and then come here to slander his was the wrong thing to do..
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NO...Lloyd accepted a deal when he accepted money for snakes. Apparently the OP didn't think they were going to be messed up. The OP then contacted Lloyd to make sure a deal was in place before he came to the BOI, because it is hard to get a resolution once you post here sometimes. Lloyd agreed to the terms, and the OP shared his bad experience with Lloyd. They may be even-steven on the deal, but Lloyd had to have know that the snake he has had for years had a stubbed tail and scarring. Now, if Lloyd doesn't follow through with the cribo babies, he looks worse.
 
CJReptiles said:
The only thing that I'm guilty of is sticking up for a friend.you led Lloyd on by letting him think the resolution you agreed on was final. Then you came here and trashed him. You should have picked up the phone and called him and talked It over to give him the chance to make it right..
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You stuck up for a friend when he was wrong. He did sent messed up snakes, as described by the OP. You said the Lloyd would never do that, and Ben Siegel would never ship them. How did he get them then?
 
I've followed this thread since the OP originally posted, but kept quiet until either the OP posted some proof of his claims, or Lloyd responded.

Frankly, I don't see a "beautiful" snake. I do see a snake with multiple healed/healing scars/scabs down the spine and some still open sores. Too many obvious scars/sores to have been undisclosed to the buyer prior to the sale, IMO.

Lloyd has admitted to the tail nip, so that is yet another undisclosed condition of the animal prior to sale. The OP did, in fact, see a vet for a professional opinion/treatment, and provided proof to Lloyd. Whether or not mites were actually present remains unconfirmed.

Lloyd and the OP did reach an agreement that seems to have placated both after the OP expressed his dissatisfaction (and I would have been disappointed too after laying out that kind of cash, to be honest). Lloyd did not actively dispute any of the OP's claims in the emails that followed after receipt of the snakes.

Bottom line, IMO ... Lloyd should have disclosed (or provided photos) of the girl's true condition prior to the sale. The OP should have disclosed/posted the emails between he and Lloyd pertinent to the compensation agreement at the time he initially posted this thread.

I am curious though, since it was brought up by someone other than the OP or Lloyd. Who in fact packed/shipped this snake (or pair)?
Was it really Ben S? Or did you; CJReptiles, who made that claim; think that by dropping that particular name it would benefit Lloyd and cast less credibility on Jeremy Warren?
 
1)
CJReptiles said:
I am not telling Lloyds side of the story, I am stating facts that I have personal knowledge of.
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2)
CJReptiles said:
Killing the messengers....
I've been hearing this far too often lately, and from many quarters. That people are afraid to post on the BOI because they get attacked viciously for their statements made there. That they wind up virtually fighting for their own reputation because of attacks made on their own character because of their statements made either for or against someone on the BOI.

Personally, I think this is a serious issue that I need to address. If people are afraid to post on the BOI, then what will be the eventual result of non participation because of the grinder people are put through there?
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3)
CJReptiles said:
After seeing the photos, I was wrong, who knew? The shipper never saw the snakes, they were bagged up.
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Christopher, I'm not getting on you, I'm just making a point to address point #2. The reason that those who post are often asked many questions is that it is the process of question and answer, give and take, that often brings out the truth.
The reason for this forum's existence is to allow parties and others to express their point of view and give information so that onlookers can then read and use the information provided to make choices about their own transactions.

Anyway, it takes a big man to admit being wrong and I respect that you did that.
 
Lloyd Heilbrunn said:
I told him because he was unhappy, I would send him a PAIR of BTs whether or NOT, he bred the Texans.






Just wanted to post a quick update on this thread, I never received these BT cribos that Loyd promised as retribution for the junk indigos. I know for a fact he produced BT cribo this year, he posted pictures of his clutches on a drymarchon facebook page this season.
Click to expand...
 
Did you remind him of your deal when you saw them posted, or were they sold by then? Not saying you should have to track him down, but wondering if you pursued him.
 
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