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Bad Guy RodentPro- Zoonotic disease warning

Wraith said:
So...what you are saying, for example, if Perdue was determined to have shipped out salmonella infected fresh chicken to only 2 stores within one state... you would expect them to send emails out to all stores throughout the entire country to inform them that hey.. congrats you are not contaminated? No. They only need to contact the two stores that were affected who can then go about doing what they need to do to deal with the situation.

The only time you hear of big news releases of contamination of products is when the problem is not something that can be considered locally contained..or the form of contamination is considered highly dangerous. This little mouse virus we are talking about is not highly dangerous.. it is not even moderately dangerous. You really are in far greater danger from the food you buy for yourself at a grocery store or the mosquito or tick that bites you outside in your own backyard than you are from this mouse virus. If the CDC thought that RP needed to send out a mass notice to all of its customers about what amounts to a non-event, then yeah I seriously bet they would have done exactly that if they were told to do so.

And really.. if you are THAT overly concerned about your wife being pregnant.. then get rid of ALL your animals... fish, cats, dogs, birds, reptiles, whatever. For that matter.. get rid of all the food in your house - don't handle or cook any food in the house ever again. bug bomb the hell out of it too cause you never know what creepy crawlies that might be hiding in the woodwork or drains or dark corners. Bleach it, sterlize it, irradiate the hell out of the house if you feel you must to "protect" your wife. Unless you are willing to wear a hazmat suit, just Don't go outside. Don't go to public places. Don't touch money. Don't touch door knobs. Don't touch people. Don't breathe the air. My brother's wife was pregnant - high risk pregnancy. Doctor knows there are all kinds of animals in their house as well as other family member's houses (from common to exotics). He was like... eh.. wash your hands frequently after petting/handling any animal but let someone else be 100% responsible for cleaning litter boxes, food dishes, etc. common sense chit yanno.
Click to expand...

It's no big deal if its only effecting a minority of the population, sort of like racism right.

A) Rodent Pro didn't notify anyone
B) Some 13 states are doing tracer investigations to determing the extent of this issue.
C) This little virus can kill some people, cause birth defects, and make your wang fall off*.

This whole issue is more about prompt notification to the consumer, and because of the nature of rodent sales, they are resold, used as breeders, and those are sold, it is going to be nearly impossible to isolate where Rodent Pro mice are by looking at a bill of sale months after an outbreak.

Maurice Pudlo

* Ok your wang might not fall off due to this virus, but if you like to take risks ...
 
Wraith said:
So...what you are saying, for example, if Perdue was determined to have shipped out salmonella infected fresh chicken to only 2 stores within one state... you would expect them to send emails out to all stores throughout the entire country to inform them that hey.. congrats you are not contaminated? No. They only need to contact the two stores that were affected who can then go about doing what they need to do to deal with the situation.
Click to expand...

If Perdue sold one single chicken to someone that was infected, Perdue would (and has) put it on the local news in that area, along with where the chicken was sold, lot number, expiration date, etc., and at least here in a major city, millions know about it. Recalls in general are put out by grower, not the CDC. The CDC couldn't have warned anyone else because, the CDC didn't know about anyone else.
On the miniscule chance that it might affect one person that those mice may have been near, they should have been shouting it from the rooftops as soon as they found out. The affect on their business would have been marginal and short-lived, because they also could've shouted the all-clear. Now, they've gotten a lot of people wondering. If the CDC hadn't caught it, would anyone have been warned? What do think would happen to Perdue if the public found out they hid an infection because they decided it was too slight?

Noelle
 
Wraith said:
So...what you are saying, for example, if Perdue was determined to have shipped out salmonella infected fresh chicken to only 2 stores within one state... you would expect them to send emails out to all stores throughout the entire country to inform them that hey.. congrats you are not contaminated? No. They only need to contact the two stores that were affected who can then go about doing what they need to do to deal with the situation.

The only time you hear of big news releases of contamination of products is when the problem is not something that can be considered locally contained..or the form of contamination is considered highly dangerous. This little mouse virus we are talking about is not highly dangerous.. it is not even moderately dangerous. You really are in far greater danger from the food you buy for yourself at a grocery store or the mosquito or tick that bites you outside in your own backyard than you are from this mouse virus. If the CDC thought that RP needed to send out a mass notice to all of its customers about what amounts to a non-event, then yeah I seriously bet they would have done exactly that if they were told to do so.

And really.. if you are THAT overly concerned about your wife being pregnant.. then get rid of ALL your animals... fish, cats, dogs, birds, reptiles, whatever. For that matter.. get rid of all the food in your house - don't handle or cook any food in the house ever again. bug bomb the hell out of it too cause you never know what creepy crawlies that might be hiding in the woodwork or drains or dark corners. Bleach it, sterlize it, irradiate the hell out of the house if you feel you must to "protect" your wife. Unless you are willing to wear a hazmat suit, just Don't go outside. Don't go to public places. Don't touch money. Don't touch door knobs. Don't touch people. Don't breathe the air. My brother's wife was pregnant - high risk pregnancy. Doctor knows there are all kinds of animals in their house as well as other family member's houses (from common to exotics). He was like... eh.. wash your hands frequently after petting/handling any animal but let someone else be 100% responsible for cleaning litter boxes, food dishes, etc. common sense chit yanno.
Click to expand...

First of all I know of the diseases that can be caused by my reptiles and I take precautions to prevent them. This particular disease was something that could be contracted through the air, something that I could not prevent. SO I can keep my snakes because I do a good enough job at sanitizing my house to prevent the normally known diseases reptiles carry.

Next your example of Purdue totally blows up in your face. If Purdue sends out chicken to the grocery store and they find out, they do a recall. ALL recalls are recorded and listed for the public. Also I did not purchase my Purdue chicken with my email account so, NO I would not expect them to email me. I have been to the grocery store where they posted that there was a recall.

This is a more comparable scenario because Rodent Pro doesnt serve remotely as many people as Purdue does. Lets bring it down in size.

Take any one of the Top 3 snake breeders in the world. So say you purchased a snake from them in May, and they found out that a few snakes had Crypto and they isolated it to a snake from a MAY trade. Would you not expect that snake breeder to contact you immediately and tell you that there was a possible situation and you should test your snake.

That scenario more closely fits the Rodent Pro scenario.

I was contacted by Rodent Pro today and was given some information and offered a refund for the amount of mice I purchased. THAT is what I am expecting. All they cared about was business and kept it hush hush.

You can do as many scenarios as you would like, but the fact remains, Whomever the company is, I would expect them to make information on the situation PUBLIC so that we can know what is going on. End of story.
 
MauricesExoticPets said:
My bad, its 21 states. Here is the link: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/spb/outbreaks/index.htm#lcmv-2012
Click to expand...

Thank you. Here are the sentences relevant to his claim:

"Shipping records indicate that live mice were shipped to distributors, pet stores, breeders and individuals in 21 states. The affected states are currently conducting traceout activities to detect any infected mice that were shipped to purchasers before the quarantine. To date, no subsequent human cases of LCMV infection have been reported."

It appears that the CDC is interested only in live mice and not frozen mice.
 
You are welcome, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the CDC is only concerned with live mice without that being explicitly stated.

I would go so far as to say that frozen mice are a much smaller risk factor, it is exponentially harder for the virus to spread away from frozen mice for one, and in most cases frozen mice are more than likely critter poo by now.

Maurice Pudlo
 
Now Im confused. So I thought it was 14 customers and now its 27 states they are tracing? I have to agree with the previous post. I can understand that he would be concerned about his wife being pregnant and he made efforts to contact Rodent Pro and they would not return his calls. That is just poor customer service. Rodent Pro mice are probably cleaner or disease free now more than ever because of the CDC doing the quarantine. However I will never buy from them again
 
Why would there be any confusion about where contaminated product was shipped? Why would there be any question as to how many contaminated products were shipped?

Let me suggest that giving you a giant pile of papers to sort through could be considered as cooperative in nature, yet this does not make it very easy to piecemeal the whole story together.

CDC info states that some employees had been exposed to the virus prior to this current event, they do not state if those employees were employed at Rodent Pro at the time of infection though. If they were I would think that information would not be seen well by the general public.

It seems that Rodent Pro does not have a regular testing program in place that could have been used to quickly establish an illness timeline, and instantly identify all effected customers so they might be informed

It seems to me that when the CDC decided to take action, Rodent Pro handed over the computer password and took a long nap

Maurice Pudlo
 
Boy Im glad I did not make that order I was going to. I have decided to do my own thing here as it may not be as easy as popping a rodent out of the freezer, I can at least control my colonies and not bring diseased animals into my business. RodentPro should be ashamed, telling your customers the truth is far better than them finding out this way and no longer being your customers. WOW!!!
 
BurmBallsandBloods1977 said:
Boy Im glad I did not make that order I was going to. I have decided to do my own thing here as it may not be as easy as popping a rodent out of the freezer, I can at least control my colonies and not bring diseased animals into my business. RodentPro should be ashamed, telling your customers the truth is far better than them finding out this way and no longer being your customers. WOW!!!
Click to expand...


Matt

Did you read the entire thread? There is absolutely no evidence that RodentPro did anything wrong.

Way to jump on the bandwagon though.
 
Suncoast Herpetological said:
Matt

Did you read the entire thread? There is absolutely no evidence that RodentPro did anything wrong.

Way to jump on the bandwagon though.
Click to expand...

John,

The lack of doing the right thing at the right time qualifies as a wrong in my book.
Sometimes inaction is worse than improper action, while Rodent Pro very well may not have broken any laws (Thus done noting technically wrong) they did break their customers trust.

Maurice Pudlo
 
MauricesExoticPets said:
John,

The lack of doing the right thing at the right time qualifies as a wrong in my book.
Sometimes inaction is worse than improper action, while Rodent Pro very well may not have broken any laws (Thus done noting technically wrong) they did break their customers trust.

Maurice Pudlo
Click to expand...

Without evidence to the contrary I have to disagree Maurice. Once the CDC was involved I am sure RodentPro was locked into whatever course of action the CDC directed them to implement.

Again, there is no evidence, direct or circumstantial that they did anything wrong in any way.
 
Suncoast Herpetological said:
Without evidence to the contrary I have to disagree Maurice. Once the CDC was involved I am sure RodentPro was locked into whatever course of action the CDC directed them to implement.

Again, there is no evidence, direct or circumstantial that they did anything wrong in any way.
Click to expand...

But, John, this has been my very point as it has been the point of others. RP has made no attempt to explain their lack of communication, so your defense of them here is a double edged sword at best! It is well after the fact. We do not have evidence that suggests that they could have informed customers OR that they were asked, ASKED (because the CDC cannot suppress a company from alerting its customer base as it sees fit as far as I know, but admittedly, I don't know much) to keep quiet by the CDC. You have no evidence for your claims either, so dismissing a poster's concern or criticism about the way RP did or did not handle this issue as if there is NO validity to that poster's response is not reasonable, IMO.
 
rosebud945 said:
But, John, this has been my very point as it has been the point of others. RP has made no attempt to explain their lack of communication, so your defense of them here is a double edged sword at best! It is well after the fact. We do not have evidence that suggests that they could have informed customers OR that they were asked, ASKED (because the CDC cannot suppress a company from alerting its customer base as it sees fit as far as I know, but admittedly, I don't know much) to keep quiet by the CDC. You have no evidence for your claims either, so dismissing a poster's concern or criticism about the way RP did or did not handle this issue as if there is NO validity to that poster's response is not reasonable, IMO.
Click to expand...

Donna

Your response is reasonable but directly supports what i have said. It is indeed a double edged sword. It is just as easy to say what I have been repeatedly saying...knowing the CDC has been involved since this issue came to light, we have absolutely no evidence that they did other than as they were directed by a Government agency.

By the way, the CDC can ABSOLUTELY prevent anyone from disclosing anything. That particular agency has carte blanche in how anything involving infectious disease is handled and administered.

Incidentally, i will again state that i am in no way defending RodentPro. It is entirely possible that they did not handle the situation correctly and that they may have had some latitude in how they responded to the situation. My only objection is to those who are stating, as fact, that they DID do something incorrectly with absolutely no evidence to back the statement up


If anyone has a serious complaint on how this was handled, I would suggest that an email to the CDC would be more appropriate. I am confident that they pretty much ran the show post inspection results
 
Why do you think the CDC became involved John?

They placed Rodent Pro and Mouse House under quarantine with certain requirements needing to be met in order to lift that quarantine.

No.1, in providing a product to the public there is a certain level of expectation that the product is safe, Rodent Pro failed to ensure this was the case.

No.2, in failing to safeguard the public, Rodent Pro has demonstrated a lack of concern for its customer base.

No.3, Rodent Pro puts itself out to be the breeder of the product they sell, this is not the case. They Broler rodents from a number of sources (for example Mouse House). This inherently leads to substandard quality control.

No.4, there was no mention that Rodent Pro did anything but exactly what they were instructed to do, to me this seems like a if you find something wrong ok sort of deal not a lets work this out and fix it as soon as possible.

No.5, the CDC is not some super secret agency able to hush anyone with a wave of their finger.

Maurice Pudlo
 
Maurice, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion no matter how ill considered but you seem to be utilizing bits and pieces of the information posted here to form that ill considered opinion.

Let's address your comments one at a time and then i believe i will stop beating this deceased equine

MauricesExoticPets said:
Why do you think the CDC became involved John?

The CDC became involved because the regular USDA testing that is performed on all animal breeding came up posiitive for the virus under discussion

They placed Rodent Pro and Mouse House under quarantine with certain requirements needing to be met in order to lift that quarantine.


Absolutely correct. RodentPro then immediately took steps to meet those requirements, did so and the quarantine was lifted.

No.1, in providing a product to the public there is a certain level of expectation that the product is safe, Rodent Pro failed to ensure this was the case.

This statement is true but in what way did RodentPro not do this? Are you under the impression that a large scale breeding operation will always be 100% disease free? Any large scal breeder will tell you this is not the case. As far as I know there has never been a problem of this sort at RodentPro prior to this event. Perfection is a wonderful thing to strive for...it's simply no attainable.

No.2, in failing to safeguard the public, Rodent Pro has demonstrated a lack of concern for its customer base.


This statement is so patently absurd i don't feel the need to formulate a response.

No.3, Rodent Pro puts itself out to be the breeder of the product they sell, this is not the case. They Broler rodents from a number of sources (for example Mouse House). This inherently leads to substandard quality control.

They do indeed purchase a substantial portion of what they sell on Coop arrangements with other producers. Those producers are also regulated by the USDA. I fail to see where you can make the jump that this lead to substandard quality control. Again...supposition with absolutely nothing to back it up.


No.4, there was no mention that Rodent Pro did anything but exactly what they were instructed to do, to me this seems like a if you find something wrong ok sort of deal not a lets work this out and fix it as soon as possible.

One facility was tested as positive and all customers who received rodents from that facility in the time frame the CDC deemed was reasonable were immediately contacted. How in the Hell is this sort of dealing with it? Do you think that a private company dealing with a freak occurrence would have better notification protocols available than a government agency that was designed to deal with situations like this? Let's try and be a little logical at least.




No.5, the CDC is not some super secret agency able to hush anyone with a wave of their finger.

Never said they were Maurice. They are, however the government agency charged with dealing with infectious disease. Do a little research

Maurice Pudlo
Click to expand...


Those of you who have made up your mind regardless of the facts presented will not be swayed by any argument presented. In my opinion, anyone who actually takes the time to read this thread with an unbiased mind could not logically reach the conclusions being spewed on this thread


Done and out
 
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