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Ben Siegel Incident

I'm calling this now. The winner only entered the contest to sell the snake to support his drug habit. The guy in the parking lot was going to trade him drugs or money to buy drugs and the deceased was addicted enough that he won the contest. After he left, some kind of drugs (pills or H) were consumed at the truck in the parking lot and the winner died. *** This is purely a guess as to the outcome ***
 
Ben Siegel is not responsible for the death of this guy. For all we know at this point (not much) the most likely scenario is the guy had some sort of allergic reaction.Everything needs to be checked, from the source of the Hornworms to the guys medical history. People can acquire life threatening allergies to anything at anytime. This is incredibly tragic luck. The only thing Siegel may be guilty of from anything anyone is pointing the finger at him for, is not properly organizing/conducting a pretty unique event. The man willingly ate bugs, and signed a waiver. Had some sort of reaction and died as a result of it (my guess). Lighting struck in the middle of Ben Siegels shop.

He might have some fines coming from the city, but any criminal or civil stuff is he is covered for in the waiver. The guy was stuffing handful of bugs into his mouth for gods sake. Gross, absolutely. Possibly dangerous, yes. illegal? Nope.

And people you don't have to keep bringing up the fact people eat bugs all over the world as a delicacy. Because I seriously dont think they eat them like THAT. Man that video was nasty, you see his shirt!?!
 
Allhallows said:
I'm calling this now. The winner only entered the contest to sell the snake to support his drug habit. The guy in the parking lot was going to trade him drugs or money to buy drugs and the deceased was addicted enough that he won the contest. After he left, some kind of drugs (pills or H) were consumed at the truck in the parking lot and the winner died. *** This is purely a guess as to the outcome ***
Click to expand...

I'm sad to see such ugly, defamatory speculation here. :(
 
Lucille said:
I'm sad to see such ugly, defamatory speculation here. :(
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How is this a defamatory speculation? It's an opinion. I'm not defaming anyone or anything. It's my opinion solely. I'm not a detective. Somethings fishy here, you have to admit. Why was there a guy waiting to buy the snake in the parking lot for $150. Why did he just sit there and not call 911? Why would the guy who ate the bugs sell the snake in the parking lot minutes after he received it? (we don't know for sure if he was selling it, but thats what his friend said when he asked for the snake). Maybe HIS motive for being there in the parking lot wasn't exactly positive. My statement is just an opinion of a possible situation that isn't really too far fetched.
 
Allhallows said:
How is this a defamatory speculation? It's an opinion. I'm not defaming anyone or anything. It's my opinion solely. I'm not a detective. Somethings fishy here, you have to admit. Why was there a guy waiting to buy the snake in the parking lot for $150. Why did he just sit there and not call 911? Why would the guy who ate the bugs sell the snake in the parking lot minutes after he received it? (we don't know for sure if he was selling it, but thats what his friend said when he asked for the snake). Maybe HIS motive for being there in the parking lot wasn't exactly positive. My statement is just an opinion of a possible situation that isn't really too far fetched.
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Nothing about your post was Opinion based. You were saying this or that is the cause in a slanderous way... They guy that got the snake was his friend not some drug dealer/addict. Where you get drugs from is insane and probably media induced.
 
CMB Reptiles said:
Ben Siegel is not responsible for the death of this guy. For all we know at this point (not much) the most likely scenario is the guy had some sort of allergic reaction
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Perhaps not but he is responsible for yet another public relation debacle for our entire hobby by sponsoring this swine fest in the first place. I mean jeez Ben has been a positive force as far as i can tell in this business for ages this kind on of shock value event is well beneath him (so i thought).This whole event was tasteless, disgusting and unprofessional and should never have happened period. So in my mind although not NECESSARILY at this point legally responsible for the death of a human being he is certainly responsible for putting a few more nails in our collective coffin as legal law abiding reptile keepers. Surely we can do better than this as a collective group than roach eating contests if we want to change our image as freaks and anti-social pariahs.
 
squinn said:
this whole contest was sick, disgusting and irrelevant. Irregardless of whether the death is linked to the bug consumption or not all contests like this do is paint us all as freaks and misfits. We need as an industry to be cleaning up our image not reinforcing rediculous stereotypes of who reptile keepers are. This contest is shameful regardless of the cause of death.
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And the difference between this and someone consuming fifty hot dogs for a prize (or simply for the "glory" of it) would be what exactly? Nothing.

Just because parts of the Western World are digusted by the act of consuming roaches does not make it disgusting, sick or irrelevant (no, I have no interest in doing it, but I have eaten ants and other things before). Many people throughout the world consume insects for the sake of consuming them and for nourishment. Anyone who finds it to be a digusting, filthy act is ignorant and just as foolish as those who wish to condemn any of us for keeping herps.

Personally, I think craming McDonald's down your throat is far more disgusting than eating a roach and much more of a spectacle.

If these people had been doing this for charity, would you be damning it so quickly? If someone had died having done this for a "good cause" and not an ultimate goal for their own, would it be so atrocious? My bet is no.

It is tragic that Eddie died. It is tragic that Eddie died in such a terrible way and that it appears his friend was not aiding him when he needed it. However, Eddie entered that contest of his own free will. Eddie chose to each those roaches of his own free will. While, yes, EMT should have been on hand, it is looking like it would not have mattered. This is a tragedy as plain as they come.
 
ShadowAceD said:
And the difference between this and someone consuming fifty hot dogs for a prize (or simply for the "glory" of it) would be what exactly? Nothing.

.
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yeah well i find cramming 50 hot dogs to be just as gluttonous and disgusting as well so what's your point? Should we lower the bar just because other segments of society wallow in their own filth. Competitive eating of any sort I find repulsive. So how exactly are these insects raised? At least hotdogs are USDA inspected to ensure they are fit (well as fit as nose lips and you know what can ever be) for human consumption. I expect these insects don't go through any such regulatory process how can they be guaranteed to be free of zoonotic parasites and other such things?
 
squinn said:
yeah well i find cramming 50 hot dogs to be just as gluttonous and disgusting as well so what's your point? Should we lower the bar just because other segments of society wallow in their own filth. Competitive eating of any sort I find repulsive. So how exactly are these insects raised? At least hotdogs are USDA inspected to ensure they are fit (well as fit as nose lips and you know what can ever be) for human consumption. I expect these insects don't go through any such regulatory process how can they be guaranteed to be free of zoonotic parasites and other such things?
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I can guarantee you that eating a roach bred in a controlled enviornment is far less detrimental to your health than the mystery meat that exists in hot dogs. Perhaps you should research just what USDA inspected actually means and what little bearing it has towards whether something should be consumed or not.
 
Lucille said:
I'm sad to see such ugly, defamatory speculation here. :(
Click to expand...

Allhallows said:
How is this a defamatory speculation? It's an opinion. I'm not defaming anyone or anything. It's my opinion solely.
Click to expand...

Speculation, as it was used here, means "A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture." And conjecture means "Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork." And it was defamatory because you base the entire thing on the presumption that he was trying to support a drug habit.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com

THAT BEING SAID: Nobody really knows. You could be right. However, there is a non-defamatory explanation for every one of your points. Not that everything you read should be believed, but the common story seems to be that the guy who was buying the snake from Eddie was his friend who attended the shop/party/contest with him. Maybe Eddie really wasn't interested in the snake for himself but in making a free $150 for eating some roaches. He seems to be remembered as "the life of the party" and some people do in fact eat bugs as a party trick for fun.
 
ShadowAceD said:
I can guarantee you that eating a roach bred in a controlled enviornment is far less detrimental to your health than the mystery meat that exists in hot dogs. Perhaps you should research just what USDA inspected actually means and what little bearing it has towards whether something should be consumed or not.
Click to expand...

yeahn i know what you mean hygiene in reptile feeder roach cultures is always of the highest standard, clean rooms frequent cage changes and high degrees of disease surveilance by DVM's are completely the norm not the exception in the reptile hobby. The huge amount of USDA health regulations and compliance issues don't come near as close to keeping decent health standards with meat packing plants as the honor system does for non regulated entities such as roaches.
 
I agree with it being a stupid contest with a sad outcome that's my opinion
. Every one blames the friend now and point fingers. Reminds me of that incident pee for wii. Ben is def not responsible but I would feel guilty as a store front since the only reason the man is dead is from entering this contest.
 
The only reason he is dead is because God gave him life. Are you going to guilt God too?
 
RichsBallPythons said:
I respect peoples beliefs but lets not bring religion into this. Im an atheist and dont believe or see as you do.
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"Amen"

I don't see any reason to attribute this to anything other than random bad luck. It's entirely likely that he rolled the dice in the "risk vs. reward" game, and the odds for "risk" simply caught up to him.
 
I personally believe that speculating anything, especially in such negative ways, is in no way productive to what actually happened. Let the professionals deal with it. All of us have absolutely zero say in the ultimate outcome of this, so all of this finger pointing and useless conjecture is doing nothing but distracting from the only validated fact that somebody tragically died after Ben's roach eating contest. Let's see what the official reports are and then we'll have more knowledge with which to condemn or empathize.

Personally, the whole "aspirated on vomit" theory seems the most reasonable, although I heard on the radio this morning that the autopsy was inconclusive.
 
RichsBallPythons said:
I respect peoples beliefs but lets not bring religion into this. Im an atheist and dont believe or see as you do.
Click to expand...

OFF TOPIC RANT

Gosh, I think I'm going to have to state something controversial.

Oh my God, she mention the word God! Hurry, hit her with a stick!

Hmm, paraphrase "So you respect her religion but shut up about it and never mention that word, shutter "God". After-all, I'm an atheist and you'll respect my beliefs by never mentioning yours? WTF!

Sounds about right.

Lucille doesn't go around preaching her religious beliefs in any posts that I can think of but the one time she mentions GOD she is quick to be cut down about it.

Look, there are a lot of atheist on this forum. There are a lot people who have a lot of different beliefs. I myself have stepped out of line in some criticism in the past (Something about someone who believed they were a vampire and I made a lot of jokes about it) but come on.

You see it used to be and still is to some extent depending on what type of forum you are on that atheists would get attacked for not believing. Now it seems just the mere mention of the word GOD sends some atheists into panic mode.

You mention GOD. Oh no you didn't, Whomp! You don't respect her beliefs. You don't. You just want her to respect yours by not mentioning GOD period.

One who is religious and believes in GOD would say, GOD bless You, He/she is with god when someone passes. You show no respect by telling people to shut up because you don't believe what they believe.

All you want is none to say anything because you believe nothing. That is respect to you? No, respect would be to allow a religious person to state "he is with GOD" "He is with his maker" that is what religious people do.

If you don't believe that, then say I don't believe in GOD but lets not tell people to shut up because they believe when someone dies they are with GOD and they state it.

"Let's not mention religion" When somebody dies! When else would a religious person mention it? Come on!

How dare she.

GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD

By the way, if you think I'm only saying this because I have a firm belief you would be wrong. I'm just tired of people belittling people who do have a belief and also when someone has none. She didn't hurt anything with her comment and to be respectful of other peoples religion or lack of it doesn't mean you should never mention your own. Particularly at a time mentioning it is part of your belief system.

Personally, I'm getting kind of partial to the Ancient Alien Astronaut Theory. May God have mercy on my soul. :eek:
 
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