Holy Crap - Someone Died

[gonzoone]

Well my feeling is that during this tragic time, we as a community have a responsibility to come together and support not only Eddie's family but Ben's as well. We knew right away the general public would support neither so that leaves us. Unfortunately Jerry's posts seem to be something I would expect from outside the reptile community, not from the inside.

 

[kiwitwist]

Agreed.

 

[Mimmieux]

Well my feeling is that during this tragic time, we as a community have a responsibility to come together and support not only Eddie's family but Ben's as well. We knew right away the general public would support neither so that leaves us. Unfortunately Jerry's posts seem to be something I would expect from outside the reptile community, not from the inside.

Well said.

 

[SirenSanJose]

We do not know if these roaches were recently purchased, harvested or where they came from not to mention the condition they were kept in..

We don't know ANYTHING, and speculation is totally useless until an autopsy comes back. Throwing out what are at the moment totally baseless accusations of "poisoned roaches" is neither fair, nor helpful.

If this crap about "poisoned roaches" keeps getting spread around before the report, you know the media is going to pick it up and make the bug and reptile industry look WORSE. This is adding fuel to the fire.

And actually, I mis-spoke before -- we DO know TWO things that do allow a small degree of reasonable hypothesis, unlike the totally baseless "toxic bugs" nonsense.

1) an allergic reaction is unlikely to be the cause, as he ate the same bugs some HOURS before in the qualifiers and showed no adverse reaction. Anaphylactic shock usually sets in within minutes of ingesting an allergen.

2) he puked after winning the contest. And we KNOW that, medically, vomiting always carries the risk of aspirating vomit into the lungs and "drowning", as many a healthy college kid finds out the hard way after a night of partying too hard.

Aren't those a whole lot simpler answers than conspiracy theories and baseless nonsense? And I'd be careful there, Jerry, sharing your "theories" too widely -- even if they're couched as "well, *I* think it's this", instead of a fact, and your theory turns out to be baseless, you could easily find yourself on the wrong end of a libel lawsuit.

Spreading false information that's damaging to one's reputation -- y'know, claiming someone you're in a business dispute with at the time has contaminated feeders -- is an awfully stupid thing to do for someone that claims to have such an in-depth understanding of the legal system and lawsuits.

 

[sschind]

Hope your not owed any money from Ben !

Or Jerry Tresser from the way it sounds.

 

[SirenSanJose]

If this is a post about the tragic life lost and the survivors (his daughters), attaching the link to the fund set up for them through this difficult time would be honorable Regardless, those two little girls are suffering now. Why not focus on turning to a positive solution what we can as a community rather than trying to further black ball a respected member trying to give a person the opportunity to acquire an animal that most would never be able to afford.

A fund has been set up, this has been circulating on FB, including on Ben's business page. It was set up by Joe Ellis Reptiles. (Note that I am not controlling this fund, nor involved in any way with it, except for spreading the info, so I don't have the answers to any questions about it.)

"If you care to donate the Paypal Address is [email protected]

Edward (Barry) Archbold passed away from a tragic accident.

"A 32-year-old man died after winning a midnight roach-eating contest at a Reptile Store in Florida. The grand prize was a female Ivory Ball python. He planned on giving it to his friend"

I personally did not know Eddie and many of you did not either. I am told Eddie was a very nice guy and his friends were everything to him. "He was the life of the Party" What happened was tragic and no one could have predicted what happened. It is difficult for the family as well as the reptile community.

Eddie left two Daughters behind. They could use our help. I have spoken to his Sister, and Girlfriend Natasha Proffitt to start a Memorial Fund. The money will be going towards Eddie's Daughters College Fund.

If you care to donate the Paypal Address is [email protected]

Rest In Peace Eddie......

https://www.facebook.com/edward.w.barry

Joe Ellis Reptiles"

 

[RainDropExotics]

Thanks Siren. I was just about to do that on my daily bank run because I saw that Knubtail was apparently too busy to contribute anything positive. Donations wont replace their father but it might ensure a promising future.

 

[Shadera]

Anyone have a direct donation address for the family? After some recent and not-so-recent donation fund skimmings and outright scams, I much prefer to give my money directly to the individual it is supposed to help.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I'm not naive about the fact of what can happen in situations like this but it still amazes me that the first thing coming out of some peoples mouths is get ready for lawsuits. Far as I know cause hasn't been determined yet, family hasn't stated anything about a lawsuit.

Like I posted on the other thread about this incident,

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353872

It should be about personal responsibility.

I personally dislike the direction the topix thread is going.

Right of the back people start talking about representation.

Here you have people volunteering to do something to try and receive a reward. Something of value. Free will people. You engaged in a act freely.

Personal responsibility used to be common place. Now, the first thought is always how can I hold someone else accountable for my actions.

We should rally around the person's family and lend support but not encourage a frivolous lawsuit that nothing presented thus far shows responsibility belongs to anyone but the individual who freely took part in this event.

 

[kiwitwist]

Ah, there is another thread with far more on-topic conversation. Didn't see that. Still some ignorance going on there, though..

 

[WebSlave]

Juvenile. I DONT THINK SO. Lets just say its your lack of understanding that most attornies would advise their client to hold off on any payments to anyone until they see what direction this suit is going to take.... Not as juvenile as you think !

Seriously? Just because YOU think that Ben will get sued and YOU think he may declare bankruptcy because of something completely unrelated to your issue with him, is sufficient grounds for you to use that as an excuse to not pay him the money that is allegedly owed by you to him?

That is now your excuse of the moment?

Sorry Jerry, but unless bankruptcy law has changed substantially, I believe a bankruptcy does not absolve any debts owed TO the person or business declaring bankruptcy. Your debt to him would have to be declared in court proceedings and be considered as a pending asset of Ben's estate but it does NOT go away.

 

[BenSiegelReptiles]

I am so upset hurt and shocked by the things Jerry has written about me, my family and my manager and his family. It has caused much emotional suffering at this point as I am sure that EVERYONE on this thread would agree. Someone email me saying that very traumatic libelous events can cause many disorders such as ptsd and others. I sure hope Jerry is happy for what he has done and the damage both emotional and financial to me and my business. I am also very upset that he would post untrue facts about an event that he did not attend and knew nothing about. That is also a shame, as If I am not mistaken but presenting fact publicly knowing they are not true about an ongoing investigation is a felony? I could be wrong, but wouldnt Jerrys prior career as a law enforcement officer make him even more culpable then say an average citizen.... but hey---what do I know---I dont understand all that legal mumbo jumbo stuff.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Hey Rich,

Bankruptcy provides protection from creditors. Its that simple. In this case, Ben will be sued. Probably the store as well. One way or another. This is just a question of time. Not sure about his manager but if a deposition is requested, for sure Billy will have to be represented.

People should not be surprised once the M.E.s report comes in and the toxocology will tell the story.. I am certain that the plaintiffs already have an attorney , just waiting for the report before they file.. Ben already has an attorney , which he did mention by name... That is not going to be of any value in these cases. Settlement will.. I can assume Ben does NOT have the necessary insurance to cover this kind of a catastrophie.

Even if he did, he will still be liable. I think we both know that insurance companies alwasys have a wiggle room especially if these types of circuses are after normal business hours. Or do you find midnight acceptable.

I dont know if Ben is incorporated or not, but even if he is, personal liabillity is always involved in a suit to insure all the cards are covered....

My post here has absolutely nothing to do with the difficulties between Ben and myself.

I have not done any thing to subterfuge my concerns that relate to this situation... I am just tired of these antics and they are not limited to Ben alone.

This is what happens when you try to outsmart yourself in a trade that already has its share of problems...Not only nationally but state wide as well...

You know Rich I have been in this business for almost 50 years. I was there at the beginning. We never had to have a gimmick to make money. Here we had a snake offering. At the expense of a persons death. Leaving two children fatherless... Mind you, Bens attraction was even advertised...

I dont doub for a second that there are regrets abound in the Siegel family, but if you think my condemnation is severe, wait until the matter gets into the hands of attornies representing the plaintiffs.. Those people you can genuily call roaches because they will check every facit of the Siegels life looking for assets, hidden funds, or self servicing changes on deeds, etc.

I know what I am talking about.



If the threat of bankruptcy looms an alternative for Ben will be to file papers, which his lawyer will do and that will become effective upon notification to the courts... Everything will stop.(dead in its tracks) any litigation or future litigation on this wrongful death situation.

then his attorney will advise him , if he has not done so to hold on to any cash, pay only necessary bills and see where this will lead.. It is also very possible that the attornys represnting the plantiff will try and block the bankruptcy proceddings by pleading before a judge... This is just my opinion, but its a bit premature at this time..

Just to clarify your misconception about bankruptcies. once filed. Everything stops. College loans, allimony , and possibly tax obligations will not be immune .. Also you can be damn sure that his tax returns will be examined to see if there are any assets outside of the business. Like a home, boat, etc...


I came here to discuss this situation because Bens action can be damaging to the food industry as well.... I dont understand what was so necessary about this type of entertainment, could provide..

if Ben has some problems with my posts, that his problem. I dont need nor do any breeder of insects need any additional problems with authorities who would like nothing better than to control or eliminate food suppliers to the trade. That would be the Dept of Agriculture and here in Fla they are worse than the F&W people... So I am concerned..

. His problems with me have nothing to do with his own problems here....

Rich, I suggest you re check what you think is correct about bankruptcies and you will see that I happen to be correct.... There is one caviat.

Becuase of the amount of the suit (undetermined as yet) state bankruptices have limitations (money wise) this will be federal . JERRY

 

[Lucille]

I came here to discuss this situation because Bens action can be damaging to the food industry

Uh huh, sure you did
Jerry, no one believes that, no one believes you, and I would think that many are tired of your blunt, bullying manner.
You've looked up just enough to be able to speak a few words on a few legal theories. but pointedly, you are not addressing the theories that may be applied to your own situation. You are here to deflect attention from your own predicament, which you brought upon yourself.

 

[gonzoone]

I am certain that the plaintiffs already have an attorney , just waiting for the report before they file.. [/B]Ben already has an attorney , which he did mention by name...

Exactly! And that is exactly who should be concerned about all the crap you keep spewing! You have no dog in THIS race Jerry!

 

[SirenSanJose]

Bankruptcy provides protection from creditors. Its that simple. In this case, Ben will be sued. Probably the store as well. One way or another. This is just a question of time. Not sure about his manager but if a deposition is requested, for sure Billy will have to be represented.

You have insider information that you're sharing on a public forum now? Really? Unless you know something we don't, making outright statements like he "WILL" be sued "one way or another" is really presumptuous of you. Not everyone is a sue-happy asshole.

If I took a known risk doing something to try to get something I wanted, if I died involved in the hobby I loved, because *I* chose to take a risk that turned out poorly in my favor, and ESPECIALLY if I, while of sound mind and body, signed a WAIVER, I've made it clear as HELL to my loved ones that I'd haunt them for freaking eternity if they sued ANYONE for my dumb choice.

 

[Fangthane]

My post here has absolutely nothing to do with the difficulties between Ben and myself.

Oh, so it's not cowardice that keeps you posting here, so you can avoid having to explain the skidmarks on all your recent dirty laundry that's flapping in the wind? You must not have been much of a cop. They're generally much more effective liars.

I came here to discuss this situation because Bens action can be damaging to the food industry as well....

That glass house is nothing more than a frame, at this point. Ripping people off is so much more admirable, in regards to protecting and promoting the hobbby? Good luck selling that one.

Here's a little integrity test for you. Since critical thinking clearly isn't one of your strengths, I'll make it multiple choice.

Complete this statement:

Shady business practices, such as reneging on promised refunds, are _______ to how any niche industry is perceived.

a) beneficial
b) harmful
c) baba booey!

 

[Teatime]

I'm not a lawyer or a judge, but Jerry seems to think his opinion on the matter is as good as fact. Just so we're all on the same page, here are the actual facts as we know them:

1. Ben advertises cockroach eating contest on Facebook
2. People show up at his store
3. Ben has the contestants sign a waiver absolving himself and the store of any responsibility in the proceedings
4. Only one person out of all the contestants had any complications from the contest

That, so far, is it. And do you think places would even make you sign a waiver like this if the legality of it wasn't certain? What would be the point? When I took a motorcycle course from the MSF, they made everyone sign a waiver saying that if you got hurt and/or died, they weren't responsible. It's your own fault when you do dangerous stuff, whether it be riding motorcycles or participating in eating contests.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

This site is not the BOI

There will be a lawsuit and Ben will have more difficulties that anyone could imagine. I know because I was involved in these types of litigation.

There are attorneys that specialize in these matters, and are experts in winning for the plaintiff... THIS IS BIG MONEY HERE. Although I dont know how much it could be in the millions.

For those who seem to follow me around, by doing so it just makes Bens problems more problematic. He does not need or should even be posting here as this is about a BOI thread .. If you dont like the posting , then refrain from bringing in a BOI thread here...

Or possibly the moderator can do something about it... Its always the same people, with the same argument.

To Ben Siegel. From the onset everything is always a" poor me ". syndrome. you took private emails that I sent you, created a BOI thread and attempted to ridicule me publicly. With the help of the same people who have now come here to continue on an unrelated matter, It still continues.

I hold your responsible for your dogs because they wear your collars. Just like Exotics of Miami. Another Ben Siegel special. Then all of a sudden after almost 1 1/2 years a second thread appears on the BOI over a $ 36.00 replacement issue. Coincidence Ben !

I have been on the BOI since its infancy. Never had a problem concerning herps . Got into plenty of arguments , without calling people liars, and bringing in an army to defend poor Ben and making it appear that I am to blame for all of your ills... You are responsible for your own actions. Not me

You contact me privately and I responded. You then felt is was so importaint to create a thread " the worst kind" For what Ben !


You let other people do your dirty work until I respond and then I am a thief, You never even provided me with an invoice, You dont even know the date of the transaction;;;;You coulld have stopped this and you did not. You purposely waited unitl I responded to your private emails and then made it a public fiasco . That is reprehensible, and unforgiven .

So I left and came here to discuss a different situation that does affect me and possibly allot of other peoples business as well... Did it ever dawn on you that maybe the DOA will start examining stores that do breed roaches or receive crickets, mealworms, etc and may have to now meet certain criteras because of your stupidy with your gimmick enterprise....

Why should I have to bare any burden or anyone else . My buisness is 21 years old. I dont need any additional supervision from outside sources.. This is something that you have created out of your own ignorance , without thinking about any ramifications that could not be beneficial.. A big party for Ben Siegel and friends. At the store at midnight..


Be smart, stop posting here, and allow this thread to die down hopefully as the other ones that you started on the BOI have done... I strongly suggest the same for your patron to follow suit.


These litigations are not only very expensive but very painful. I understand that. Most of the people whom I saw involved in these situations end up in bankruptcy protection. Its the least expensive avenue as you cannot fight it because of your limited funds which go beyond enormous.

Your attorney will advise you accordingly. The information that I have provided is more than an opinion , its a fact based on my own experiences through law enforment.

Although unrelated to this unusual case, most of them get resolved in some settlement or protection from the court, but you do loose !

You will.... regardless of the MEs report which more than likely will show some poison killed the poor soul.. As indicated earlier. more than likely a body reaction of sorts. FORTUNATELY that the other contestents were lucky enough to avoid.

Enough said. Leave me alone.

 

[Lucille]

The information that I have provided is more than an opinion , its a fact based on my own experiences through law enforment.
.

LEOs are not attorneys. You have no expertise in the legal field, and while you are as entitled as the next man to your opinion, your opinion is no more than just that.

Or possibly the moderator can do something about it...

Are you REALLY calling on the moderators for personal help after you smarted off to Rich on the fruitfly thread? Really?

The reasons you are beginning to get upset about many of these posts and desperately trying to put the hush on, is that your bullying tactics have flat out failed and it is dawning on you that you are facing the possible loss of a lot of money because of your own words and actions.