Inquiry BallBids.com?

[Lucille]

friends of enemies

I think this is a weak point in your chain of reasoning. The supplier is not a friend to Ballbids, he merely sold them four snakes.
From the one post he made, there is nothing to show that it is an ongoing relationship. In order to be judged culpable in any way, I think you would have to show that the supplier knew about the shenanigans Ballbids prior to seeing this thread and prior to his sale to them.

 

[Fangthane]

In order to be judged culpable

Thank you for pointing out the weak point in my chain of reasoning. Allow me to reply in kind.

In a court of law, perhaps. This court is an entirely different nature. Sometimes, on the BOI, the court of public opinion needs little more than a verifiable assocition to form their judgements. It's on that philosophy that I was commenting; not necessarily leading the charge for ostracism. Although, there's also nothing in his post that would seem to lead one to believe that there absolutely wouldn't be an ongoing relationship.

I am by no means his sole or even main supplier of animals.

 

[crazygecko]

You also have to remember that this is a business and for Mark to turn down someone because a majority of the people think Ballbids is a scam or whatever would be kind of dumb on his part.
Yeah it might rub some people the wrong way, but it would be like Walmart or any other store turning you away from purchasing something because they don't agree with everything you stand for.
Personally I think its better that Zack isn't caring for these snakes and instead is having them shipped directly from breeder to auction winner. Cuts out allot of mishandling that could go on if they were shipped to Zack and then to auction winner.

 

[Focal]

You also have to remember that this is a business and for Mark to turn down someone because a majority of the people think Ballbids is a scam or whatever would be kind of dumb on his part.

There's two sides to that coin, because a portion of that "majority" may never purchase from Mark after this.

Yeah it might rub some people the wrong way, but it would be like Walmart or any other store turning you away from purchasing something because they don't agree with everything you stand for.

They pull sponsorships all the time because bad publicity can kill their business and cause an uproar from customers ... kind of like what's happening now.

Personally I think its better that Zack isn't caring for these snakes and instead is having them shipped directly from breeder to auction winner. Cuts out allot of mishandling that could go on if they were shipped to Zack and then to auction winner.

I agree, that's the one good thing coming out of this.

 

[Fangthane]

You also have to remember that this is a business and for Mark to turn down someone because a majority of the people think Ballbids is a scam or whatever would be kind of dumb on his part.

There's an idea that I've often seen expressed on the BOI, and one that I've often agreed with: Don't actively support the "Bad Guys" by dealing with them. I suppose some would throw that out the window when name recognition is factored in. To each their own.

Yeah it might rub some people the wrong way, but it would be like Walmart or any other store turning you away from purchasing something because they don't agree with everything you stand for.

Not really. In online reptile sales, one has an easy ability - some may even say obligation - to research anyone that you may consider buying from or selling to.

If the reptile community does indeed need to be self-policed; and the very existence and popularity of the BOI strongly imply that it does, it seems odd to think that a blind eye should be turned to those who take active part in allowing the "Bad Guys" to continue their endeavors. That could even be extended to those who choose to take part in the bidding, also.

 

[Lucille]

You also have to remember that this is a business and for Mark to turn down someone because a majority of the people think Ballbids is a scam or whatever would be kind of dumb on his part.

Once he knew of Ballbids shenanigans or once he read this thread, I think he should have turned down their business. It is one thing to make an innocent sale to someone, it is another to support the kind of behavior Ballbids has shown by enabling them by supplying them.

 

[GREGORY J HALL]

Really how can this keep going on? really is he making any money with all the bad Karma around BallBids,I must be doing something wrong because Im trying to produce my own animals and sell them legitimatly on the market.

 

[crazygecko]

If he is making any money I cant imagine its too much or he would have more then 1 auction every couple of weeks or month.

 

[Shadera]

Once he knew of Ballbids shenanigans or once he read this thread, I think he should have turned down their business. It is one thing to make an innocent sale to someone, it is another to support the kind of behavior Ballbids has shown by enabling them by supplying them.

Agreed. I don't care how good someone's rep is, when they stoop to knowingly supporting someone with all the scruples of ballbids, they're on the same level, IMO. Would we be so gracious if it were someone with a bad rep?

Whether he knew before or not is something we can all debate until the cows come home. It's what he'll do now that we know for sure he knows, that'll show the measure of the man. It's not about sales, it's about integrity.

All of us have different lines in the sand. For some of us, it's okay for people to support ballbids with animal supply as long as they're good guys. For some of us, it could be a guy we've done business with a million times but as soon as they start supporting this gambling site, they've seen the last of our dollars. It doesn't look like minds will be changed, but I guarantee you the guys over at BB are thrilled to see the bickering.

 

[hhmoore]

In the quick skim of the recent posts, I find myself disagreeing with what seems to be the prevailing attitude...at least to some degree.
I guess the sticking point, for me, is assuming that Mark knows - or cares - about everybody's opinion of BallBids. He made a post in this thread, but that doesn't mean he's read it. He doesn't visit this site regularly, and I suspect that his comment was precipitated by being advised that he was being discussed.
I agree that if people don't like BallBids, they shouldn't sell to them. I do not agree that other breeders are bound by anybody else's opinions in this matter. I can choose not to sell to BallBids without castigating anybody/everybody that does...especially when the volume is still this low after a year. If they were auctioning 25+ snakes per week, and Mark was supplying the majority of them, I might be more understanding of the negative comments.

 

[crazygecko]

Totally agree Moore

 

[Lucille]

bound

All transactions are a matter of making choices.
And if one makes a choice, others here should be free to have and express their thoughts about the choice so that those coming after can read the thoughts of their peers to perhaps assist in their own decisions. That is one of the purposes of the BOI.
I personally feel that Ballbids is not well run, that they have posted falsehoods, that they have been beyond nasty to those who disagree with them here. I do not support anyone who enables them to continue their charade of a business, and if they give their support to Ballbids *after* knowing what Ballbids is about, and after having read this thread, I personally want nothing to do with them.

 

[hhmoore]

That's fine - how do you know if somebody has read this thread, or knows what you know?

 

[Shadera]

I do not agree that other breeders are bound by anybody else's opinions in this matter.

They're not. But some of us can certainly decide not to do business with someone based on who they in turn do business with. It's done all the time in this hobby. So and so doesn't sell to so and so because he doesn't like so and so.

What it comes down to, is that we're all entitled to an opinion. They're like, well, you know. Everyone has one, and no one wants to hear it.

 

[Lucille]

That's fine - how do you know if somebody has read this thread, or knows what you know?

A person could say they have read the thread (this vendor did not, but several people throughout this thread have said that they have read it). They could express how they feel about Ballbids in a prior post or different thread.

Or are you asking the more interesting philosophical question of how we know, and whether words ever completely convey what we know?

 

[hhmoore]

I'm not feeling particularly philosophical tonight - feel free to take my words at face value. My question was primarily because of the comments about Mark now knowing, apparently based on the fact that he posted. While I certainly don't know this for a fact, my GUESS is that he read enough to see why he was being discussed...and that he probably has no intention of reading the rest of this thread.

 

[Lucille]

I sent Mark an email asking if he read the entire thread, and whether he was going to continue to supply Ballbids. Plus, he is reading the thread now. There is the concept of due diligence, where if you get enough hints to tell you that maybe you should look into something, that you take the time to go ahead and look into it.

 

[GREGORY J HALL]

LOL I know some that would sell their animals to the Devil for a buck

 

[Lucille]

I asked several times in the course of the emails we exchanged, whether Mark was going to continue to supply Ballbids, below he says he is undecided.. I asked that he read more of the thread, even choose random pages and take 15 minutes to read, and he says he is too busy. He does seem to be willing to take the time to read emails and talk to people about their opinions (but many of people's opinions are in the thread.)

From: "cindy petros" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 8:55:13 PM
Subject: Re: BOI thread

I`m undecided at this point
I have 4-5 hours more hours of work ahead of me tonight
I have 600 ball pythons that need to be taken care of and I`m building a massive new website
No decision will be made tonight. Please feel free to pass my e-mail or phone # on to any of your friends.
I`m interested in everyones opinions and experiences.
Take care, Mark

Mark Petros
BallPython777.com
847 836-9426 hm or 847 844-3100 wrk

 

[Focal]

I might be more understanding of the negative comments.

Mark is a good guy from what I have seen, although, I think the negative comments are reasonable. They could be a lot worse which leads me to believe that the comments expressed are more in concern than just down right being mean.

I also think the comments are just, using your reasoning that Mark may not have read this thread. He deserves to know how people feel about this and how it could hurt the great reputation he has built. I think Shadera nailed it by addressing the unspoken "oath" that comes with the BOI and it's browsers. I really wasn't going to post how I feel about this and keep it to myself, but I think he deserved to know how other people in the ball python world feel, especially if he's out of tune with how BB conducts business.