Bad Guy My experience with Underground Reptiles

[UndergroundReptiles]

This chondro was originally a farm bred baby that came from Bushmaster stock. We are happy to include a care sheet or offer care info if asked. We have to do this do to the volume of orders that come in. We always encourage our customers to do the necessary research or ask any questions they may have before purchasing an animal. The mite kill solution is our own brand that we make and have used as a treatment and preventative for over 10 years. We would be happy to demonstrate its use for anyone that comes into the store or even wishes to video. I informed Mrs. Hollowell that she can spray this solution on the animal and the cage, daily, but to avoid the water dish.

 

[kernel]

You still haven't said what the ingredients in your mite killer are.

 

[UndergroundReptiles]

We won't divulge that just because it is our own solution that we sell, but as I stated I would gladly demonstrate it's use on our own snakes, even our own Chondro breeders. Hopefully that puts your mind at ease. Thank you.

 

[aleria]

We won't divulge that just because it is our own solution that we sell, but as I stated I would gladly demonstrate it's use on our own snakes, even our own Chondro breeders. Hopefully that puts your mind at ease. Thank you.

So I am to understand that you are selling/giving away a non-FDA approved chemical mixture to the public?

 

[UndergroundReptiles]

I apologize if it seems like we were doing something wrong, as that was never our intent. The offer still stands for anyone to come in and view the spraying of our own animals and even film it if they wish. If there is concern that we are doing something wrong I would report it the proper authorities and have it investigated. I came on this forum to comment on what occurred with this transaction and feel that I have answered adequately. I don't want to go on circles on this other matter though. I hope you understand.

 

[Basand]

I have done business with UG before. I placed an order in which I received about 20 reptiles. I was fairly new to herp keeping at the time, but as everyone knows, we all make mistakes.

I received the package, short one Iguana and with another reptile dead. The packaging was great, but things happen. A few days later I started dealing with mites.

I am not going against Underground Reptiles. They offer products at a lower price than most. You get what you pay for. I had to learn very quickly how to handle mites and keep the reptiles healthy. UG gave me store credit for the DOA and the missing Iguana with no questions asked. (It was a decent sized order, so I guess they gave me the benefit of the doubt.)

Since then, I have not used UG. Would I in the future? Yes. But first I would definitely have an excellent quarantine set up to deal with incoming mites that happen when you deal with import/export in such large volumes.

I understand that you get what you pay for. You buy at wholesale pricing, be prepared to deal with what comes at that price. Private breeders tend to have a better selection for new breeders. Easy one-on-one support for questions and a smaller collection to manage. But with that comes a higher price.

To me, the mites are not necessarily causing an unhealthy snake. Is it bad for business? Of course. Did they try to correct it? Yes.

Should you already be prepared to handle incoming mites when receiving reptiles? YES!!

I feel that it was a poor situation for someone that (though she claims 13 years of herp experience) seems new to keeping reptiles, but proper research prior to this on her part would have saved both parties a lot of trouble.

Furthermore, I feel that UG went beyond what was required of them. For a company that deals mostly with wholesaling, they are used to customers that can handle what they receive.

I literally just treated my collection for mites. It took me two treatments a week and a half apart and my snakes are mite free and healthy.

I feel that UG was more than fair by offering to send a replacement at a below-wholesale price once the setup was fixed.

To the OP, I am not attacking you. I apologize if you feel that way, but I am stating the facts as I see them. I am sure that you were disappointed to have received this, but I am sure you have learned a great deal from the situation. If I were you, I would take UG up on the offer and maybe ask them for tips on keeping chondros.

I wish you well in your hobby of keeping herps. Rest assured that you have a large community here at Fauna that is quite willing to help you in any way you need.

~BAS

 

[rcarichter]

In a small tank, under a sunny window, with a heat lamp above and heating pad below, where exactly did this snake go to cool off?

Noelle

 

[JColt]

If you buy farm bred or wild caught or wholesale........

 

[chollowell]

The supposed window is a partition in between my living room and kitchen. It's not a window.

 

[chollowell]

As to the spray. I sprayed the reptile with it and he died not long after doing so. It never ended up in his water dish. I sprayed him outside of his cage as not to get it in his water. I will admit it is some of my fault to for not asking what was in spray but was told could put on snake directly. I did have the snake in a quarantine cage bc I didn't want it infesting my other enclosure which is set up by my other reptiles. I understand every snake is different. I know mites are bad and must be treated immediately. I had to treat a boa for mites which is mite free now and very healthy. So I truly thought that they could be treated and the snake would be fine and be moved to his better enclosure. But 2-3 hours after spraying him with the "mite killer" he died and bc underground was closed I emailed them and then also called the next day once they were open. Over the phone I was told they see mite infested wild caught snakes all the time and treat them and never have issues. That mites couldn't have caused the snake to become sick nor die. I'm sorry for everyone's questions. I have no reason to lie nor make up anything. I will remove my stuff on fb only bc it's very unprofessional and I'm very tired of the harassment from some people on there. Also I didn't post till my husband called them leaving messages with whoever answered the phone to have the owner call us and we sent an email for him to call. He never called so I decided to post. Yes maybe a little heated bc I really liked the snake and had high hopes. I read a lot of books and a lot of people's opinions and care sheets. I thought I was doing my best.

 

[GMTIRRILL]

This chondro was originally a farm bred baby that came from Bushmaster stock. We are happy to include a care sheet or offer care info if asked. We have to do this do to the volume of orders that come in. We always encourage our customers to do the necessary research or ask any questions they may have before purchasing an animal. The mite kill solution is our own brand that we make and have used as a treatment and preventative for over 10 years. We would be happy to demonstrate its use for anyone that comes into the store or even wishes to video. I informed Mrs. Hollowell that she can spray this solution on the animal and the cage, daily, but to avoid the water dish.

shouldn't giving a care sheet with all the need to know fact a must? and just because you are high valume buisness doesnt mean that you cant do this it just means you dont wish to. As for your mite killer that you formulated it can be classified as a pestacide so in lime light dont you have disclose what the ingredients are? i highly doubt anyone is going steal your formula for the mite killer but due to the fact that you are a buisness you have to follow OSHAS rules and regulations, and have MSDS for any said chemical or cleaning solution used on your premises. If i remember right due to costumer safety you also have to disclose any inportant infomation about pestacide or pest control products to a customer for they're own safety.

 

[chollowell]

And as for my experience. This was my first chondro and no the quarantine cage was not perfect or ideal but I did keep him warm and hydrated. As to everything else I trusted what I was told.

 

[aleria]

shouldn't giving a care sheet with all the need to know fact a must? and just because you are high valume buisness doesnt mean that you cant do this it just means you dont wish to. As for your mite killer that you formulated it can be classified as a pestacide so in lime light dont you have disclose what the ingredients are? i highly doubt anyone is going steal your formula for the mite killer but due to the fact that you are a buisness you have to follow OSHAS rules and regulations, and have MSDS for any said chemical or cleaning solution used on your premises. If i remember right due to costumer safety you also have to disclose any inportant infomation about pestacide or pest control products to a customer for they're own safety.

Exactly the point I was getting at. But being that they did not answer my very simple question of whether or not they are selling a chemical mixture without it being properly registered and labelled by the fda, epa or any other governing bodies in charge of chemical distribution, I will not go ahead with reporting them just yet.

I don't want to waste the time of one or all of these agencies just to find out that they actually are registered, properly labelled, and allowed for use/re-sale.

So if we, as consumers and potential customers of their company, could get a straight answer, and not a side-step telling us to "go ahead and report if you think there is something we're doing wrong because we didn't mean to and we're only addressing this other issue", then I will go ahead and file a complaint to have this issue looked into.

 

[chollowell]

I will post a picture of the bottle that I trusted wasn't harmful. Its got a strong smell to it compared to the mite sprays I've bought in the past from the pet stores.

 

[GMTIRRILL]

I will post a picture of the bottle that I trusted wasn't harmful. Its got a strong smell to it compared to the mite sprays I've bought in the past from the pet stores.

please do that

 

[ms_ramie22]

What if someone's child ingests this mite solution and needs medical intervention? The ingredients could not be revealed to poison control, making it a potential life threatening situation.....just saying....

 

[aleria]

What if someone's child ingests this mite solution and needs medical intervention? The ingredients could not be revealed to poison control, making it a potential life threatening situation.....just saying....

And that is exactly why it is illegal for someone or a company to sell chemicals/drugs of any sort that are not properly labelled and tested by the appropriate regulatory bodies. This absolutely needs to be addressed and reported to the proper agencies if it is found that they cannot provide proof of proper regulatory precautions.

 

[UndergroundReptiles]

Obviously at this point you are unwilling to be apeased by our answer. You are making certain assumptions about the ingredients of the product. You must only be FDA certified when enlisting the use of certain chemicals and mixtures, as this can be read on the FDA website. I also offered anyone, at any time to come in see, and video if they wish, us spraying our own animals with our product. If this does not suffice and you are still convinced this is wrong please contact the proper authorities and do not delay. I do not know how I can assure you any further that nothing illegal is going on. As far as Mrs. Hollowell goes we did everything we could and went above and beyond to appease her, even after she set up the animal incorrectly. As far as providing everyone with care sheets I will definitely take that advice into consideration, but also keep this in mind how does the smaller breeder keep up with such standards, some of which don't even have a website? Also consider that I have bought, for my own personal collection, animals from some of the largest breeders in the country and cannot recall ever receiving a care sheet even when they did not know who I was. I will not comment any further on this matter and thank everyone for their time and opinions.

 

[SquamataMississauga]

Obviously at this point you are unwilling to be apeased by our answer. You are making certain assumptions about the ingredients of the product.

Except you at the same time made assumptions about her setup.
Claimed it was by a window, it wasn't.
Claimed it was pine, looks like zoomed aspen to me (never was confirmed either way in this thread)

Her setup simply wouldn't have killed the snake as fast as mites or any other parasite that could come from "farmed" animals.

The simple truth is:
Did she have any sort of health warranty on the animal? If so, how long?
If she doesn't, well she should have considered that before buying it.
If she does indeed have a warranty and it covered the animal within the time-frame (and truthfully due to the fact the first "Mite Kill" solution was "Lost" in the mail I would extend it for her) and she was upfront and informed you about it should be a pretty straight forward reaction from you guys.

 

[aleria]

Obviously at this point you are unwilling to be apeased by our answer. You are making certain assumptions about the ingredients of the product. You must only be FDA certified when enlisting the use of certain chemicals and mixtures, as this can be read on the FDA website. I also offered anyone, at any time to come in see, and video if they wish, us spraying our own animals with our product. If this does not suffice and you are still convinced this is wrong please contact the proper authorities and do not delay. I do not know how I can assure you any further that nothing illegal is going on. As far as Mrs. Hollowell goes we did everything we could and went above and beyond to appease her, even after she set up the animal incorrectly. As far as providing everyone with care sheets I will definitely take that advice into consideration, but also keep this in mind how does the smaller breeder keep up with such standards, some of which don't even have a website? Also consider that I have bought, for my own personal collection, animals from some of the largest breeders in the country and cannot recall ever receiving a care sheet even when they did not know who I was. I will not comment any further on this matter and thank everyone for their time and opinions.

I, and others, are not appeased by your answer as you didn't answer the question, period. You side stepped it entirely when I very plainly asked the following:

So I am to understand that you are selling/giving away a non-FDA approved chemical mixture to the public?

Are you stating that none of the chemicals used in your product are subject to regulation? Being that your customers are not being supplied with any information about this product what so ever, as stated previously, if someone were to accidentally ingest this product they would have little to no ability to treat the ingestion as you are unwilling to list the ingredients used.