Bad Guy Experience with Outback Reptiles

[twistedtails]

Before I get slammed....I put few weeks in the first post a while back and couple in this one(it was in the general time frame of a 3 week or less time period. It was a while ago and don't remember it like it was yesterday.

 

[twistedtails]

As you know, RIs may not show up for weeks or even longer from the incident that had actually caused them.

 

[Wilomn]

Wes,

I never posted a BOI thread, I just blacklisted them for future purchases. I bought three snakes from Outback that came down sick within the first couple weeks(while in QT and husbandry was spot on). One of the snakes was not the weight as I was told as well(only 100-200 grams if I can recall correctly). Josh basically told me they were healthy when they left there and he was sorry for the weight issue. He offered me 50% off of a future purchase. My husbandry was spot on and I had never dealt with an RI up until that date. I chalked the deal up as a loss considering I had to buy the Baytril and treat the animals. I always read threads pretaining to Outback as I like to see what cards others were dealt. As I stated, it seems those guys can get away with murder in my eyes. Josh has tiptoed around my questions in this thread. Legitimate ones at that. Josh sold an animal that he did not inspect properly. Come on Wes, If you or I(or anyone else for that matter) sold that turtle, our integrity would be comprimised. Just saying. I had a buddy that over looked a simple rub mark on the lower jaw of a Ball Python recently and was blown up by the buyer over the issue.

There's no doubt Josh dropped the ball on this one in the beginning. But, he also admitted that he didn't check the animal, he just relied on information he was given. In an operation the size of Outback, this is going to happen. Josh is making it right, which is what should always happen.

With your snakes, I don't doubt you or your keeping at all. But that doesn't mean they didn't look good when Josh shipped them. Stuff is in and out of there all the time, some of it within hours of arriving most likely. Something more should have been done on the initial one that went bad, even though I'm assuming, again, that it was outside their TOS, but after 3 months, well, I'd probably tell someone coming back 90 days after purchase to go pound sand.

I don't blame you not liking Outback, that sour taste is quite unpleasant and I know the time and money you have in your collection, but we all also know the risks in buying any way other than in person.

It would be nice if Outback did something about your snakes, at least the first one, other than offer a discount you don't want. Do they carry any drygoods you could use?

 

[twistedtails]

There's no doubt Josh dropped the ball on this one in the beginning. But, he also admitted that he didn't check the animal, he just relied on information he was given. In an operation the size of Outback, this is going to happen. Josh is making it right, which is what should always happen.

With your snakes, I don't doubt you or your keeping at all. But that doesn't mean they didn't look good when Josh shipped them. Stuff is in and out of there all the time, some of it within hours of arriving most likely. Something more should have been done on the initial one that went bad, even though I'm assuming, again, that it was outside their TOS, but after 3 months, well, I'd probably tell someone coming back 90 days after purchase to go pound sand.

I don't blame you not liking Outback, that sour taste is quite unpleasant and I know the time and money you have in your collection, but we all also know the risks in buying any way other than in person.

It would be nice if Outback did something about your snakes, at least the first one, other than offer a discount you don't want. Do they carry any drygoods you could use?

I was not clear in the post I made I guess. If you read closely you can catch it though. I said he told me three months was too long to do anything but the funny thing that was after having the animals for three weeks he didn't do anything for me. He was contacted as soon as the first animal came down sick. The only thing I was ever offered was 50% off of future purchases.

 

[Josh@Outbackreps]

As a stated from day one for Mike, we would offer a discount of a future order to give us a chance to make it right, and that offer still stands.
I can understand Mike's apprehension on placing another order, but we will extend our offer again for a discount and work with you to make sure you get taken care of.
If you want to give us a shot at making it right, my info is listed below, and we can go over a nice list of animals that were produced here, and are flawless.
I will even extend our guarantee for you, so you have no issues.

In regards to the time frame listed our standard guarantee is live arrival and we will work with anyone that has an issue after a few days, after a few weeks we cannot control how the animal has been taken care of so do not have a return policy once it has been of our care that long (I am sure this is not the case in your situation) but are always willing to correct any such problems .

Thanks.

 

[David Reid]

So Outback offers no refunds?

Dave

 

[twistedtails]

I will state for the record that those animals did go on to lay eggs for a different person a proved out. Of course when I sold them(6 mos-1 year later) I stated they were infected at one point and had been treated properly though.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Before I get slammed....I put few weeks in the first post a while back and couple in this one(it was in the general time frame of a 3 week or less time period. It was a while ago and don't remember it like it was yesterday.

It's cool, sometimes we make mistakes. That is why it always a good idea do give a opportunity to fix such mistakes. My only disagreement here is the constant statements that Josh personally was deceitful in the advertisement. That's a big stretch. IMO. The ad was wrong. They are working on a resolution.

That's why it is always prudent to choose your words wisely.

I will state for the record that those animals did go on to lay eggs for a different person a proved out. Of course when I sold them(6 mos-1 year later) I stated they were infected at one point and had been treated properly though.

These animals have become a life long resposibility of mine due to the fact that he did not want to replace them. I would never sell an animal that was sick at one point. It is in my best interest to avoid a thread about myself like this.

 

[twistedtails]

It's cool, sometimes we make mistakes. That is why it always a good idea do give a opportunity to fix such mistakes. My only disagreement here is the constant statements that Josh personally was deceitful in the advertisement. That's a big stretch. IMO. The ad was wrong. They are working on a resolution.

That's why it is always prudent to choose your words wisely.

In response to keeping them my whole life I actually had to sell my whole collection due to a new baby and he deserved the space before my animals. As I said, I did tell the buyer about those animals though. I wasn't gonna freeze them and was able to find somebody that understood what they were taking on and knew how to deal with it.

 

[Wilomn]

Then maybe, when you're ready to get back into it, you could give Josh a shot at animals that HE himself has produced.

I think he's trying to be fair here.

David, I don't offer refunds unless an animal arrives dead or I don't produce something someone put a deposit on. I'm sure there are people who do, but I am not one of them.

 

[David Reid]

So someone can send a 600 gram Ball Python, listed in an ad as 900 grams and say, whoops, my bad, we will give you a discount on your next order?

 

[Fangthane]

It's cool, sometimes we make mistakes. That is why it always a good idea do give a opportunity to fix such mistakes. My only disagreement here is the constant statements that Josh personally was deceitful in the advertisement. That's a big stretch. IMO. The ad was wrong. They are working on a resolution.

That's why it is always prudent to choose your words wisely.

Did Josh post the ad? I'm not so sure that the idea that he didn't actually do the measuring, lets him completely off the hook. As the one conducting the sale, it could possibly be said that he bears some burden of responsibility for verifying its accuracy. Even if you wouldn't agree with that, how about his stance after the sale? Knowing that he had no hand in the actual measurements, he still makes this reply:

[email protected] via srs.bis6.us.blackberry.com
6:30 PM (19 hours ago)
to me
We measured them total length of 8"+ when we measured here.

Would it not have been more prudent to acknowledge the possibility of a mistake having been made, and ask for proof of it? I suppose that a buyer with an issue would be much more satisfied with a, "maybe you're right", as opposed to (what appears to be) a definite, "you're wrong". Given the apparent ease with which a tortoise is measured - it's not like a slithering snake - I could see where someone would be disappointed with both the actual size, as well as the seller's reply.

I'm not trying to pile-on, but, whether intentional or not, the size was misrepresented. I'm just not sure I get the 'blame the ad, not the salesman' stance.

 

[Wilomn]

Did Josh post the ad? I'm not so sure that the idea that he didn't actually do the measuring, lets him completely off the hook. As the one conducting the sale, it could possibly be said that he bears some burden of responsibility for verifying its accuracy. Even if you wouldn't agree with that, how about his stance after the sale? Knowing that he had no hand in the actual measurements, he still makes this reply:

Would it not have been more prudent to acknowledge the possibility of a mistake having been made, and ask for proof of it? I suppose that a buyer with an issue would be much more satisfied with a, "maybe you're right", as opposed to (what appears to be) a definite, "you're wrong". Given the apparent ease with which a tortoise is measured - it's not like a slithering snake - I could see where someone would be disappointed with both the actual size, as well as the seller's reply.

I'm not trying to pile-on, but, whether intentional or not, the size was misrepresented. I'm just not sure I get the 'blame the ad, not the salesman' stance.

Well, since you asked, heh, I do think Josh is partially responsible and I'd be thinking that in the future he'll be much more careful about weights and measurements, but, and I know this from my own experience, when you're the guy on the phone, or the net, you have to rely on the guys in the back who actually do the hands on work with the multitudes of animals coming in and going out. It's really not far fetched that one or more 'guys' made a mistake and simply passed the wrong info on up the ladder to Josh. If you've never seen a large scale operation at work, this can be hard to believe, but once you have seen it, it's not that difficult.

Also, Josh has taken responsibility for both problems in this thread. That's not nothing, especially when compared to some who have been brought here.

 

[Fangthane]

Also, Josh has taken responsibility for both problems in this thread. That's not nothing, especially when compared to some who have been brought here.

True. Also, given the speed with which an offer of reparation has been made (I'll leave out the speculation as to how big a part this thread actually played), it'd appear to be a step up, based on what I've previously seen from him.

 

[jbradford646]

When you reach your deal, or the making right of this one, you should probably post up the details so everyone knows how it was reconciled. Good for you, good for the OP, good for the readers.

yes my previous message said i will indeed share the professionalism outback displayed while making this issue right.

 

[Wilomn]

yes my previous message said i will indeed share the professionalism outback displayed while making this issue right.

I was writing to Josh, but thanks for paying such close attention to every word I write. It's ... refreshing.

 

[jbradford646]

I was writing to Josh, but thanks for paying such close attention to every word I write. It's ... refreshing.

sorry my phone doesn't display everything its hard to tell who someone is talking to when i am using my phone.

 

[Wilomn]

sorry my phone doesn't display everything its hard to tell who someone is talking to when i am using my phone.

You seem fond of excuses. Not so much responsibility, but then, it is so difficult to determine tone when one is reading, perhaps you laugh every time you write a response.

 

[jbradford646]

You seem fond of excuses. Not so much responsibility, but then, it is so difficult to determine tone when one is reading, perhaps you laugh every time you write a response.

no matter how i respond to you, you always seem to find away to take what say in a negative way. i'm so glad you pay attention to every word i say as well.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

So someone can send a 600 gram Ball Python, listed in an ad as 900 grams and say, whoops, my bad, we will give you a discount on your next order?

That wouldn't be a good resolution to me and if a breeder did that (no matter who) I would be here as well.

Did Josh post the ad? I'm not so sure that the idea that he didn't actually do the measuring, lets him completely off the hook. As the one conducting the sale, it could possibly be said that he bears some burden of responsibility for verifying its accuracy. Even if you wouldn't agree with that, how about his stance after the sale? Knowing that he had no hand in the actual measurements, he still makes this reply:

Never said he is on or off the hook. I merely stated the ad was wrong and to state he posted the ad deceptively with knowledge that it was wrong is a big leap.

That doesn't diminish his responsibility to the customer to correct the situation or not take any blame, all blame, what have you.

If the ad was wrong and the customer didn't receive what they were suppose to, then of course it is his responsibility to fix it.

I don't believe anyone here has said he isn't responsible for sending animals not as described.

I'm not trying to pile-on, but, whether intentional or not, the size was misrepresented. I'm just not sure I get the 'blame the ad, not the salesman' stance.

Because nobody stated that here.