Inquiry Anyone done business with Laura ([email protected])

[Dennis Hultman]

Sorry,...one more thing I noticed & I'm done with this.

Im really not trying to be disrespectful, but its an observation that wasn't sitting well with me...

Well, let's look at it if you want.

Originally Posted by hhmoore View Post
THAT doesn't surprise me at all...is there any way to prove it, though?

That post was in blue. It's well within a moderators job to identify who is posting under a account. Particularly if there has already been some suspicion or other activity regarding a certain person in the past.

Simply stating it doesn't surprise me and can you prove it doesn't seem out of line and isn't. We aren't robots here. We don't sit back and address threads with a completely invisible hand. We are also members of this community. We interact here.

Second quote,

Originally Posted by hhmoore View Post
Anybody else notice that Laura and Artie type in a nearly identical manner?

Wasn't in Blue and was a personal opinion. Moderators post just like other members and have since this site was created. They are able to give their opinions just like everyone else. Within the last year ( I think) we started the blue font for posts that are made as a moderator and not a personal opinion.

Neither question posed was out of line.

It's unfortunate that the BOI which can be a great tool, is going to crap because random people get involved. If you have nothing factual to contribute, leave it alone...no one cares about opinions....we're only interested in the facts.

Compared to what? The BOI was designed this way and always been this way. It has peer pressure at mind with its creation and works because of it.

The BOI has been in this format for over eleven years and in a previous format before this. All worked the same way. so, it is going to crap? compared to what?

This will probably get me an infraction of some kind because a moderator doesn't like what I have to say, but the moderators are too strict on here as well ...my parents weren't even as strict & my mother is a Sunday school teacher!!! As you can see from my stats I have decent karma for someone that's not on here too often. Just think its time to put this thread to rest....this is really ridiculous. People don't need the stress of online nit-picking.

The moderators don't make the rules up. They are enforced as written.

As April has stated there is a perfectly good feedback forum discuss what you have mentioned including the format of this site. If you do a search in that forum you will see limiting threads to those involved and everything you brought up has been discussed on different occasions over the years. The answer to why it is this way has been stated thoroughly on multiple occasions.

Also, as April stated we don't just issue warning points because we don't like what you state. Although the majority of the body of your post was mainly to be antagonistic to the site, and to target the postings of a moderator. Neither have any place in this thread.

I would have just left it alone here but sometimes it's best to address it where it is stated. I don't want people to think we just ban them for making posts that the moderators don't like. It's incorrect.

There was nothing wrong with either of Harald's statements. I state that personally and as a moderator.

 

[liltemptress7]

Although the majority of the body of your post was mainly to be antagonistic to the site, and to target the postings of a moderator. Neither have any place in this thread.

Antagonistic? Not really....I never bad mouthed the site....I actually frequent the site's boa section often & stated the BOI COULD be a good thing, but not when people get attacked for their personal knowledge of a member in question. Then all of a sudden they are called "sock puppets" because the "bad guy" actually has a person that could back him up as a good guy? I just stated the obvious based on the 1st 2 pages of this thread & I'm an antagonist? Also, I understand mods aren't robots, but I just feel if they have a personal beef with someone, they could give infractions or ban a member if they wanted to & it's not right. Like you said,...mods aren't robots...they're human....& you know what,...not all humans play by the rules.

Also,...my "targeting" does have a place in this thread being that my quotes were pulled from it. I believe his emphasis on "THAT" & the tone in general was unnecessary...that post alone started an irrelevant witch hunt.

Ok....so he's married...he & his wife work together...what's the big deal if his wife has her own account? Were they trying to get over on anyone?? As a couple withh their own accounts, they posted their real names & where they are from. I dont see anything deceiving about it. With that said, Ben Siegle has his staff access the facebook page to manage their auctions & people see him as reputable...so what's the difference?

I just think people get too petty & lose focus.

James who I'm friends with personally for 4yrs now, was sticking up for a guy he knows personally & has done business with. I, personally, have met Artie & have done business with him in the past as well. (gorgeous & HEALTHY albino patternless burm)
Why is it such a problem thats he's getting good feedback on a SELLER IN QUESTION thread? This wasn't even a bad guy thread to begin with but somehow he's a bad guy for trying to stick up for himself.

That's the main problem I have with the BOI...you're damned if you do & you're damned if you don't. There should be a new rule to BOI threads....if you have no personal knowledge or dealings with a person in question, you're not allowed to participate. It's not fair to people trying to defend their reputations when bored/ nosey people want to join a conversation. It's something that could happen to anyone & should truly be considered.

P.S.- thank you to the person who gave me good karma for my earlier post <3

 

[treeboa]

I think in both these threads Laura and Artie have shown what kind of people they are. And I seriously doubt that all of "Laura's" posts are her, but are in fact Artie typing. It's too bad it can't be proven because then they could both be banned and we wouldn't have to be subjected to their BS any more. You got caught (both of you) selling Burms illegally. Stop blaming others for your f**k up and move on. I wouldn't deal with you two under any circumstances at any time for anything and I think most who have read this thread and the other one feel the same way. How about disappearing now Lartie!

 

[hhmoore]

Well, since it is my post(s) being discussed, I might as well chime in...
First, let's look at the context of that first post - a member had just stated that

Laura is actually Artie Davidson....not sure why he uses the name Laura on here and kingsnake.

Given a few responses by the burmbreeder5 account in another thread, and that I recognized the reference to KS's "Laura", the first part of the statement was simply an observation (THAT doesn't surprise me). I didn't HAVE to make that part in blue, and I almost didn't...but because it was a short statement overall, and I was pursuing the matter as a moderator, I didn't bother with a two color post.
One of the ways we do what we do here, is by utilizing information given us by other members...but we don't just take it at face value. If the claims can't be evidenced in any way, we pretty much have to sit on the information until we can tie things together. A lot of that occurs via PM, and I could have taken that route this time; but it started in a BOI thread, and the subject matter was relative to the thread. If there hadn't been something solid, one person's claim can always be suspect; if multiple people posted a firsthand knowledge, it would have held more weight.

Anyway, at one point, I did take a more personal interest...due to public and private responses by the Davidsons, and that they seemed to be willfully violating the rules after they were asked to correct the problem. It happens sometimes, and we (the moderation team) are very aware that we need to be very careful as moderators if we start actively posting in situations like this. In fact, I even posted to that effect in the thread Artie initiated:

It would have to be something pretty bad for me to take disciplinary action against anything they say to me at this point. I've taken a somewhat antagonistic approach with a few of my posts, and that pretty much takes me out of the moderator role in this thread...or, at the very least, it means that anything I act on will have to be a VERY clear violation of site policy, so my response cannot reasonably be called into question.
That does not, however, mean that these two threads can in any way be considered unmoderated.

One last thing, regarding a couple of your recent posts

Hope I don't get infractions out of spite for this....I was not disrespectful & nor did I swear. =S

I only say it because it's happened to me in the past.

You've gotten a total of one infraction, issued by another moderator. It was not issued out of spite, it was issued because you were participating in a discussion with another member in the middle of somebody else's ad. The infraction was for disruptive posting in a classified ad. Frankly, you could have gotten more, considering none of your 4 posts in that ad should have been made there. Perhaps you remember things incorrectly? Or were thinking of another site?. I know that is irrelevant to this thread; but as long as I was addressing your concerns, I figured I should set that record straight.

 

[hhmoore]

Ok....so he's married...he & his wife work together...what's the big deal if his wife has her own account? Were they trying to get over on anyone?? As a couple withh their own accounts, they posted their real names & where they are from. I dont see anything deceiving about it. With that said, Ben Siegle has his staff access the facebook page to manage their auctions & people see him as reputable...so what's the difference?

You seem to have drunk the Davidsons' koolaid...because Laura having her own account was never an issue. The initial question raised by Rob's post, at least in my eyes, was whether there even was a Laura...or whether it was just a fictitious name being used. Once that matter was settled, the only issue was because Artie was posting on Laura's account, after he was advised to register his own. I could care less about any of the rest of it, and I told them that.
As far as Ben's auctions, those happen on another site; so who posts them is not relevant here. On THIS site, the expectation is one person per account; other people posting on the BOI or classifieds (especially without clearly identifying themselves) is counter to the requirement of having a name in the profile.

 

[WebSlave]

That's the main problem I have with the BOI...you're damned if you do & you're damned if you don't. There should be a new rule to BOI threads....if you have no personal knowledge or dealings with a person in question, you're not allowed to participate. It's not fair to people trying to defend their reputations when bored/ nosey people want to join a conversation. It's something that could happen to anyone & should truly be considered.

Warning: You seem to be intent on proving to everyone that you don't really have a clue about the design and intent of the BOI. I am sorry, but things are here the way they are because that is how I want it to be. And you appear to want to make part of this thread about yourself as well, apparently referencing some slight, real or imagined, that you got from a moderator here in the past. Sorry, but as best I can determine, this thread is not about you.

You've been asked by at least one moderator to move such conversations to the Feedback Forum, and as best I can tell, you don't appear to be inclined to follow that advice. But please note that your continuing to ignore that suggestion is moving your off topic chatter into being an infraction of the rules here for being disruptive of the topic of this particular discussion. Infractions are warnings that continued violation of the rules can result in your being banned from this site. Please take this as sort of a "pre-infraction warning".

FYI, the moderators here are following MY rules that I have put into place concerning the BOI. This is the method I have surmised (hopefully) that is the best way to run a forum such as the BOI, so that is how it is. If I can be convinced there is a better way, then certainly I am all ears to hear such a suggestion. As long as it is new and unique, and not one I have heard dozens of times in the past, however. If you have an issue with this perspective, you are welcome to continue the discussion in the Feedback Forum, but NOT here. If this request is not clear to you, I suggest that you ask someone to explain it to you before you earn an infraction with your next off topic post in this thread. Please re-read the topic line of this thread so that you will hopefully understand what THIS thread is supposed to be about.

Another FYI, this has nothing at all to do with staff liking or not liking what you are discussing. It has to do with YOUR posting in a manner contrary to the rules I have put in place here. Please understand that there IS a difference.

 

[liltemptress7]

^^^Perfect example of what I'm talking about. This would/should be an infraction.

Jeff is in Michigan....I highly doubt he knows or has dealt with either Artie or Laurie personally. I just don't understand what BS he is being subjected to.e

Asinine posts like this remind me of angry drunken locals from the run down corner bar spewing irrelevant babble that the other patrons that are minding their own business just ignore. LoL

Good night all. =)

 

[treeboa]

Don't have to know any of them personally. The BS I am talking about is them attacking Rob Starzman and trying to discredit him because they think (with no proof) that he called authorities and got them in trouble for the Burm selling thing. They then have along with your "good person" James have threatened and stalked (James) members here for calling them out. Don't need to have met them personally to draw the conclusion that they are trash.

 

[liltemptress7]

If I'm posting about Artie & Laurie in 5+ paragraphs & you choose the 1 paragraph where I go slightly off topic, and post a lengthy 4 paragraph response to my 7 lined paragraph, how am I to reply to that without receiving an infraction? You're reply is more disruptive that my single paragraph. We could discuss this further tomorrow in PM if you'd like.

ANYWAYS....Laura explained she does the Internet stuff. Assuming the have children, maybe there's days she can't get on the computer & he goes on instead.

I'm done here....& my last post was before I read either of your responses. I didn't post spitefully after the fact.

 

[treeboa]

"ANYWAYS....Laura explained she does the Internet stuff. Assuming the have children, maybe there's days she can't get on the computer & he goes on instead"

Just what the mods were talking about. Against the rules if he uses her account especially while banned.

 

[WebSlave]

If I'm posting about Artie & Laurie in 5+ paragraphs & you choose the 1 paragraph where I go slightly off topic, and post a lengthy 4 paragraph response to my 7 lined paragraph, how am I to reply to that without receiving an infraction? You're reply is more disruptive that my single paragraph. We could discuss this further tomorrow in PM if you'd like.

Point taken. Noted that in the future you would rather just get an infraction without any preceding discussion beforehand to try to educate you about this site. Certainly will save me some time.

Are you getting a glimmer of understanding yet about why we have rules against disruptive off topic chatter?

And no, I don't care to have a discussion with you via PM. Take it to the Feedback Forum where it can be discussed in the open, please. Better yet, spend some time READING in the Feedback Forum where you can find the already existing threads about the off topic concerns of yours that you have brought up here and save yourself some wear and tear on your fingers typing in the same old arguments.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

^^^Perfect example of what I'm talking about. This would/should be an infraction.

Jeff is in Michigan....I highly doubt he knows or has dealt with either Artie or Laurie personally. I just don't understand what BS he is being subjected to.e

Asinine posts like this remind me of angry drunken locals from the run down corner bar spewing irrelevant babble that the other patrons that are minding their own business just ignore. LoL

Good night all. =)

People like you are one of my biggest pet peeves (as a moderator of a different site, and a member of this one). Guess what? Just because you don't understand or agree with the rules doesn't mean that they are unfair or wrong. Your opinion of how the site is managed is not nearly as important as you seem to think it is. By all means, if you think you know so much better than the owner of Fauna, make your own website and run it however you please. Then come back and whine about how unfair it all is.

The positive karma you so proudly flashed earlier does nothing to mitigate the purely passive aggressive tone of all of your posts. The fact that you so readily ally yourself with people like these speaks far greater to your morals than those little green bars under your name. I would not do business with you based on your friendship with Artie alone, but your petty arrogance in this thread has really driven the nail into the coffin.

The people who have come to defend Artie thus far have been nothing more than a motley gang of self important cyber bullies. That in itself will be more than enough for most people to avoid him (and his supporters). I have yet to see any respectable person offer a character reference for either Artie or his wife.

 

[treeboa]

"The people who have come to defend Artie thus far have been nothing more than a motley gang of self important cyber bullies. That in itself will be more than enough for most people to avoid him (and his supporters). I have yet to see any respectable person offer a character reference for either Artie or his wife."

And there you have it! Laura and Artie make thinly veiled threats like meeting people in person, James calls someones job to try to get them fired, and after all that Barbara comes on here and defends all of them and tells the mods and the OWNER OF THE SITE how the site should be run. This is a court of public opinion. The threads here are for people to decide who to deal with or not deal with based on what they read. Based on what I have read I would never deal with any of these people either!

 

[burmbreeder5]

all i can say is this is exactly why i didnt ask any people to post on this thread on

our behave

All you people want is drama and jeff im far from absent i just think you people have

gone off deepend already and my husband is suspended im sure you will here from him

after 5 tonight

 

[liltemptress7]

I think in both these threads Laura and Artie have shown what kind of people they are. And I seriously doubt that all of "Laura's" posts are her, but are in fact Artie typing. It's too bad it can't be proven because then they could both be banned and we wouldn't have to be subjected to their BS any more. You got caught (both of you) selling Burms illegally. Stop blaming others for your f**k up and move on. I wouldn't deal with you two under any circumstances at any time for anything and I think most who have read this thread and the other one feel the same way. How about disappearing now Lartie!

People like you are one of my biggest pet peeves (as a moderator of a different site, and a member of this one). Guess what? Just because you don't understand or agree with the rules doesn't mean that they are unfair or wrong. Your opinion of how the site is managed is not nearly as important as you seem to think it is. By all means, if you think you know so much better than the owner of Fauna, make your own website and run it however you please. Then come back and whine about how unfair it all is.

The positive karma you so proudly flashed earlier does nothing to mitigate the purely passive aggressive tone of all of your posts. The fact that you so readily ally yourself with people like these speaks far greater to your morals than those little green bars under your name. I would not do business with you based on your friendship with Artie alone, but your petty arrogance in this thread has really driven the nail into the coffin.

The people who have come to defend Artie thus far have been nothing more than a motley gang of self important cyber bullies. That in itself will be more than enough for most people to avoid him (and his supporters). I have yet to see any respectable person offer a character reference for either Artie or his wife.

I guess because she & Jeff are on the mods' side of the argument, they wont be publicly warned of their disruptive posts (ranting for 2 paragraphs about me) in this thread.

People like Sarah & Jeff are my pet peeve...they live no where near us & no personal dealings yet they muddy up the reputations of others from their computers hundreds-thousands of miles away. Who are you to say what kind of people the 4 of us are? My posts have been clean, properly typed & worded...I believe I came off educated with class. To say I'm to be considered a member of a self important motley gang of bullies, question my morals & say business shouldn't be done with me based on my associations is slander. It's people like this that start problems on here & I hope she will be publically warned for going to far. Those rules are in place even for the distant, 2 cent adding mod a$$ kissers.

Laura, I've never met you & I'm sorry people could be so petty.

Bottom line, I have met & done business with both Artie & James...they are good guys despite what others, that don't know either one, have said. I've gotten animals from both of them & were of the highest of quality, healthy & STILL healthy. Whether or not you take my word, won't change the fact they're good to do business with.

Enjoy your bickering back & forth....I've said my piece & I'm done.

Hhmore...you handled your replies to me with more class & I respect that. We just agree to disagree.

Webslave....I apologize for being disruptive. I just believe in being fair.

Have a nice weekend *EVERYONE*.

 

[WebSlave]

My posts have been clean, properly typed & worded...I believe I came off educated with class.

Modest, too.......

 

[treeboa]

Barbara, I will ignore your opinion of me (largely because I don't care) and stay on topic. This post is about Laura and by extension Artie since they say there are both in it together. Artie was arrested for illegally selling Burms (public record and in the news). Artie posts as Laura, Rob Starzman (who I have had personal dealings with and know to be a good guy) points this out. Artie starts a thread about Rob accusing him of lying and cheating and admits he did it as revenge because they think Rob called the authorities on Artie. Rob then does have to call the police because Artie is threatening him and his family and harassing him. I will leave out James since this thread is about Laura (and Artie as I said). I don't care that you had a good deal or two with Artie. Even the known scammers have good guy posts and even threads on this site. The arrest and threats and just attitude in general of these two makes me not want to deal with them. And from your posts it's obvious you don't get how this site works or it's purpose in general.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Bottom line, I have met & done business with both Artie & James...they are good guys despite what others, that don't know either one, have said. I've gotten animals from both of them & were of the highest of quality, healthy & STILL healthy. Whether or not you take my word, won't change the fact they're good to do business with.

Just to keep this still on topic I'll skip the post where you responded to me and not address it. It wouldn't be fair to keep addressing those points at the same time the site telling you to keep on topic. I would love to respond if you take the topic to the feedback section.

Instead, I'll address this post which goes to the character of the individuals this thread is about.

We have "Herps in the News" section on this site where articles all over the world are posted when it involves our community. Much like every news story of good or bad publicity is re-posted all over the net.

One member posted the news article (much like many members do) about Artie pleading guilty. Like the case are not it is a published story involving this community.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346445

How did Laura respond? By sending profanity laced private messages to the poster of the news story.

Then went on some tirade about hoping someone posts the users address. Just like she did to several other people in these two threads.

Some reason she has some fixation on peoples home addresses evident by this bogus thread they started and commenting on Harald others addresses.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385763


So what if you bought a snake off them and it was healthy! That makes them good guys and no-matter what they do means nothing?

The thread in the beginning was in fact gathering mode to determine who was using what account? That is a legitimate inquiry.

Their reaction was to start a thread threatening a lawsuit and targeting others that brought up Artie's arrest.

So the name thing wasn't a big deal or someone trying to hide their identity.
The thread could have been short and sweet and ran its course fast. The rules explained and just dealt with.

Instead, they participated in this becoming what it is including their messages to the administrator and moderators.

So you bought a snake and it didn't die, Cool they did what they were suppose to do in a transaction.

At the same time they act like assess sending profanity laced threatening messages to members, starting bogus threads on individuals because they don't like what they posted.

It all seems relevant to me about dealing with them. Particular if something goes wrong.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

And to add, as a liberty loving person I'm opposed to such laws and enforcement. I think that law and arrest are both BS. That said, their reaction to everyone who mentions the case is also over the top and ridiculous.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Edit*****


Punctuation all over the place and words left out. Having hard time typing on this device.