Bad Guy Andrew Hermes of Arizona Tortoise Compound

[Arizona Tortoise Compound]

Once I took possition of the Radiated from the breeder and gave him the 1000 cash, it was mine. I never said it wasnt and I didnt brake Federal Laws Drew! I have all permits in order.

 

[Warren_Booth]

Of coarse a tortoise will pee in the shipping box. After 2 days the bottom of the box doesnt hold and will leak. UPS will bag a leaking box. The package was shipped Priority over night.That is what happened.

As to everyone that is telling me to make it right. I offered Erik money and tortoises for life at cost!!! At cost means if I hatch them then it would be free.
Andrew Hermes
Arizona Tortoise Compound

1) If there is a risk of the animal defecating/urinating and that compromises the integrity of the box, then the choice of shipping container needs to be revised. e.g. not polystyrene sheets in a cardboard box, but a 1 piece polybox with lid inside a cardboard box, or a wooden shipping crate. More expensive, but the small extra cost could have saved this tortoises life.

2) I commend your for offering the refund and also tortoise for life, free if you produced it. Assuming that you follow through with this and do not say that you did not produce animals you did in order to get out of shipping a tortoise, and assuming you actually produce reasonable numbers of animals to select from, then I see this as a reasonable solution from you. If the buyer knew the animals was not yours, but you were simply brokering it, then that is sadly a risk. But, as broker, you are doing the right thing here to make the deal right as much as you can. $475 along would not, but $2800 in credit plus the money, or $3200 in credit does.

Of course, there is still the CBW permit issue, but we have nothing to comment on that as to whether you both have that.

I hope this does two things. 1) Stop you using UPS, and 2) Stops you brokering animals. Both appear to potentially end in a lot of stress for you.

Warren

 

[Drew R]

Andrew you may want to read the regulation you can not use your permit to ship for another individual. If all permits are in order the "radiated breeder" should have a C.B.W and so should the receiver and yourself.
Respectfully,
Drew Rheinhardt
Co-director Turtle and Tortoise Preservation Group

 

[Brandy Pecanic]

Here is a list of other companies with the same terms and conditions as Arizona Tortoise Compound..... ETC ETC.

Andrew Hermes
Arizona Tortoise Compound

Tom wanted me to post your emails to him to show your true colors, but we think they will come out shining here in the next couple posts. So we will be patient before we post your 'laughable threats.' lol! Hopefully you learn here...

That might be the stupidest thing I read all day. You clearly quoted me wrong and when I politely correct you that is what you had to say?! Next time you address me I will eat the infraction to voice what I think of you.

Go for what you know then, your threat is weak... Tom wanted me to tell you to take your issue up with him, IF, you are big enough? Ouch!

Not sure what he meant there, but apparently he has a reason already to 'have you pegged,' as he stated it? Sorry for making the water 'muddier' than it already was for you.

Andrew you may want to read the regulation you can not use your permit to ship for another individual. If all permits are in order the "radiated breeder" should have a C.B.W and so should the receiver and yourself.
Respectfully,
Drew Rheinhardt
Co-director Turtle and Tortoise Preservation Group

So, Andrew and Erik, have we got these? (Award winner for best posts in thread Drew! Nice stuff!)

 

[Arizona Tortoise Compound]

Exactly Drew. The tortoise, once in my possession, it was mine and not the breeders. Plain and simply. I never tried to pass the buck and say I didnt own it once I took possession of it. I do not cover shipper errors, weather or acts of god. I went above and beyond what I needed to do to help out Erik. Bob contacted me yeasterday and wants me to sell his adult male Radiated and I told him no way. Warren I am not using UPS ever again and not brokering to help a friend from now on. Now I use Fed Ex, Southwest airlines and delta, they say they will stay true to the insurance I put on them, UPS didnt. Fed ex also said they will not put my Live animal packages in a plastic sack for any reason. The bottom line lessons to learn here is most all breeders dont cover shipping delays, UPS considers all live animals as perishables and wont pay the insurance. Asking to have a tortoise placed in a box and shipped to you is a high risk situation. Read all terms and conditions before a purchase. Also this thread was created to help the buyer. It doesnt help the person posting the complaint by others stirring the pot and mixing up the facts or actual story for him.

 

[TylerStewart]

What a sad situation for the tortoise, honestly.... FedEx would not cover the value of the animal in this situation. From my experience, they will cover the value if the box is lost or destroyed completely (which essentially never happens) but will not guarantee that it will show up live (they don't know that it was live to begin with).

Side note, if the tortoise "became yours" when you took possession, then you shouldn't be putting the blame back on the nameless "breeder." It's clearly a very gray area of the CBW permitting law, but taking possession of a radiated and shipping it out immediately exploiting what is a major loophole I'm sure is not perfectly acceptable practice.

In my opinion, if a company is willing to ship a tortoise, knowing what that entails and the risks involved, they should be fully responsible for getting a live tortoise to the customer when (not if) FedEx or UPS messes up. If a company is ok with shipping a tortoise in December, the company assumes that responsibility. If you think it's too cold (or hot) to be safe, don't ship the tortoise.

 

[Brandy Pecanic]

Exactly Drew. The tortoise, once in my possession, it was mine and not the breeders. Plain and simply. I never tried to pass the buck and say I didnt own it once I took possession of it. I do not cover shipper errors, weather or acts of god. I went above and beyond what I needed to do to help out Erik. Bob contacted me yeasterday and wants me to sell his adult male Radiated and I told him no way. Warren I am not using UPS ever again and not brokering to help a friend from now on. Now I use Fed Ex, Southwest airlines and delta, they say they will stay true to the insurance I put on them, UPS didnt. Fed ex also said they will not put my Live animal packages in a plastic sack for any reason. The bottom line lessons to learn here is most all breeders dont cover shipping delays, UPS considers all live animals as perishables and wont pay the insurance. Asking to have a tortoise placed in a box and shipped to you is a high risk situation. Read all terms and conditions before a purchase. Also this thread was created to help the buyer. It doesnt help the person posting the complaint by others stirring the pot and mixing up the facts or actual story for him.

Andrew... Putting all the dramatic emails aside to Tom. Have you sold on eBay before? Do you know what it takes to maintain a 'positive trader rating?' Have you ever wondered what it takes to maintain a 99% feedback rating? Sometimes, you will need to overcompensate to get that 'positive feedback.'

Tom made mention to you already in your email chain. He has forwarded me all those emails, by the by, and can't respond here at this time. But... Here's the deal, you can stand your ground here, and guess what happens to all the viewers here?

When A GOOD TRADER has an issue, these days, you better OVERCOMPENSATE that buyer. Be it a $20 tip for shipping delay on a Matchbox car shipment, or $3500 in this particular case. PUT YOURSELF IN ERIK'S SHOE'S FOR MORE THAT MINUTE OR TWO.

Or, kiss them, and their friends, and family good bye as potential customers. Just as you threatened Tom with that. That was dumb of you to do that too, by the by.

Now, with all that being said, you have offered some options for Erik, that's relatively large of you. Without any nonsense, what exactly are you really offering him at this time, besides the $476 and change, that isn't right?

Erik, this is your only opportunity to get some satisfaction out of this deal. I'm shocked Andrew is making offers, so that does speak volumes for him and ATC.

I apologize to you Andrew for coming off harsh, dead animals bring negative stuff out of me these days.

 

[Warren_Booth]

What a sad situation for the tortoise, honestly.... FedEx would not cover the value of the animal in this situation. From my experience, they will cover the value if the box is lost or destroyed completely (which essentially never happens) but will not guarantee that it will show up live (they don't know that it was live to begin with).

Ship your reptiles will however

Side note, if the tortoise "became yours" when you took possession, then you shouldn't be putting the blame back on the nameless "breeder." It's clearly a very gray area of the CBW permitting law, but taking possession of a radiated and shipping it out immediately exploiting what is a major loophole I'm sure is not perfectly acceptable practice.

In my opinion, if a company is willing to ship a tortoise, knowing what that entails and the risks involved, they should be fully responsible for getting a live tortoise to the customer when (not if) FedEx or UPS messes up. If a company is ok with shipping a tortoise in December, the company assumes that responsibility. If you think it's too cold (or hot) to be safe, don't ship the tortoise.

Agree 100%

well put.

 

[David Scarboro]

Here is a list of other companies with the same terms and conditions as Arizona Tortoise Compound..... Turtle and Tortoises.com, Florida Iguana.com, Turtle Source, Exotic Pets, Bill Zovickian, Underground reptiles, Bay Area Reptiles, Tortoise Shack, Garden State Tortoises, Cold Blooded Novelties, Carolina Pet Supply, Blue Water Reptiles, Snicker Snakes just to name a few. A few of these companies actually sponser the "Board of Inquiry".

I only found three companies that cover shipper/carrier errors. They list that info on there terms and conditions page also. Most other sites dont have terms an conditions listed. For those companies , they should since everyone likes to sue.

"Tom and I WILL NEVER let somebody purchase from you! You should refund in full! And we are die hard Tort fans. If you had an ice pack in there, the Tort would have been fine. Just like Anthony said above... they only bag and tag dead bodies! "

As to you Brandy, your confused and comment when you shouldnt, the weather was perfect, nothing to do with cold packs at all. UPS placed the box inside of a plastic sack then in another box. That is how the tortoise died. UPS mis picked the package and it was delivered a day late. UPS said they bagged it in the morning of day two.

Of coarse a tortoise will pee in the shipping box. After 2 days the bottom of the box doesnt hold and will leak. UPS will bag a leaking box. The package was shipped Priority over night.That is what happened.

Erik did alot of things wrong. He wanted a Radiated shipped to his from gate. He asked me to write on the package 'leave at gate' . He didnt want to go to the airport. He didnt make me aware of the late shipping untill 7 hours later.Tracking numbers were provided and he didnt track. He made me aware of the late shipment after UPS closed, the first day.He didnt want to go to UPS and pick up the package on day two after the delay, instead he wanted it placed on the truck for another 15 hour lag and placed at his gate. My package was not air tight and the tortoise could breath fine untill it was placed in a sack by UPS. I ship out, on an avaerage of 10-12 different orders every week. This is the first shipment that didnt arrives safe and sound. I can not control what the shipping company does with the packages once its out of my hands. I also can not control the weather. If a customer wants a tortoise shipped in the middle of December it is of coarse their risk. You want a Radiated shipped to your front gate with no signature required ,its at your own risk. You want the tortoise left on a truck for another day its your risk.


First and foremost, what a horrible event and how awful for the tortoise! I know Andrew and have had animals shipped from him on multiple occasions. There is NO WAY he put a live animal in a plastic bag. He knows what he is doing and does it well!!! Unfortunately there is always risk in shipping live animals. It is the responsiblilty of BOTH parties to agree on how best to minimize these risks.

To my knowledge, no shipper will insure live animals. Ship Your Reptiles is the only company that offers such insurance. Delta does not unconditionally guarantee live animal shipments either.

Yes Tim your 100% right. Placing animals in a box and sending them nationwide is a huge risk and the carrier doesnt cover it.

As to everyone that is telling me to make it right. I offered Erik money and tortoises for life at cost!!! At cost means if I hatch them then it would be free. Erik doesnt want that and only wanted 3k not the 472.56 and store credits for life. I didnt have to offer anything but did. As to him posting the thumbs down posts, the offers of things at cost or free is over now. I made that clear to him as well. Erik will need to provide me with his shipping info within 7 days from today's date to receive the 472.56 refund. After 7 days if Erik doesnt provide me with the shipping info for the cash then that offer is over as well . Also if Erik would share the emails, everyone would see I tried to make it right. I also will not fold because of him posting this. I feel good about the way I conduct myself and company. ATC was created to have the tortoise world feel safe about puchasing a tortoise from a reputable breeder and receive healthy tortoises without someone just stealing the money and not shipping. I can guarntee almost everything except shipper delays,weather and acts of God.

Andrew Hermes
Arizona Tortoise Compound

Andrew, Knowing that everything here is permanent and that many people are going to see this, please tell me why anyone should ever take a chance on anything shipped from you. You accept no responsibility. Also, putting a time limit on an offer as well as retracting one is just small of you.

 

[msean]

I Will put my opinion here as others have and that is what forums are for. Both parties I am sure have the CBW permits or would not be shipping radiateds across state lines. Andrew will be in trouble for this if found out because clearly be brokered a deal for a tortoise that wasn't his as has been made clear and he was offered $300 to broker the deal.
The simple fact to me is that the tortoise would of been fine for a few days even as weather was fine were it not for fact that it was clearly I appropriately packed and shipped by seller. Assuming buyer is telling truth which he says he is and has pictures to prove so much. The tortoise was packed in a box w no air holes and sealed shut with tape. That is wrong. Further, seller got cheap and made a box with styrofoam sides and bottom that could not contain a leak. I breed and raise radiateds of course they will urinate and deaf ate in a box, more so with stress of shipping. Ups did what they always do in that circumstance. Whether or not tortoise was dead already due to a sealed box with no holes is a question that can't be answered. However, if a tortoise was shipped in a correct box w a sealed bottom like a small fish box it would of undoubtedly lived and done well.
Therefore, the tortoise did not die due to UPS delays but died as a direct consequence of incorrect packing. The seller will lose in court and this should go to court. A painful lesson for both parties. Perhaps refunding the money by court order will teach the seller to spend a few bucks and ship a $3000 tortoise in a correct box. Cutting 6 pieces of styrofoam and lining a box is not adequate. Again, not a death due to shipping delays. There is no case against UpS unfortunately, but a strong case against seller. Mistakes he made:
1. Brokering a tortoise and not disclosing it as such. A CBW violation unless original owner has permit. Probably a violation of this site. I know would be of kingsnake if he advertised there also.
2. Packing a live animal in a sealed box with no ventilation holes, this was enough to kill it.
3. Packing in a homemade styrofoam sided his w inability to contain small amount of liquid. This led to ups putting it in plastic bag and its demise if not already dead from the sealed box. CLEARLY the shipping delay had nothing to do with a death that prob happened before it even left Arizona.

 

[ErikL]

I tracked the package from Arizona almost hourly except when I was sleeping during the night of the 18th. I notified Andrew as soon as I was aware of a delay as well as called ups. I do have a current captive bred wildlife permit. This is the first I have heard about when the package was placed in a plastic bag. Andrew has all my emails as do I have his.

 

[Warren_Booth]

ErikL, You should post these. Otherwise its all just blind accusations.
Warren

 

[Ken Foose]

In my opinion, if a company is willing to ship a tortoise, knowing what that entails and the risks involved, they should be fully responsible for getting a live tortoise to the customer when (not if) FedEx or UPS messes up. If a company is ok with shipping a tortoise in December, the company assumes that responsibility. If you think it's too cold (or hot) to be safe, don't ship the tortoise.[/QUOTE]

My first feeling when I read this was my insides falling out. I feel horrible about the tortoise. If I was the seller, I would have been shocked, dismayed, and very upset. Then I would pay the buyer back for the full purchase price. Which would also be very upsetting to me. We all work hard for our money, and this is a big hit. But it's also the price we sometimes have to pay in the "live" animal business. It sucks for everyone, including the tortoise. Live delivery is a must. Your customer expects it. But if it doesn't, it's the sellers responsibility to make it right, no matter who's at fault. I'm just sorry that this lesson is being learned in such a horrible event.

 

[Brandy Pecanic]

In my opinion, if a company is willing to ship a tortoise, knowing what that entails and the risks involved, they should be fully responsible for getting a live tortoise to the customer when (not if) FedEx or UPS messes up. If a company is ok with shipping a tortoise in December, the company assumes that responsibility. If you think it's too cold (or hot) to be safe, don't ship the tortoise.

My first feeling when I read this was my insides falling out. I feel horrible about the tortoise. If I was the seller, I would have been shocked, dismayed, and very upset. Then I would pay the buyer back for the full purchase price. Which would also be very upsetting to me. We all work hard for our money, and this is a big hit. But it's also the price we sometimes have to pay in the "live" animal business. It sucks for everyone, including the tortoise. Live delivery is a must. Your customer expects it. But if it doesn't, it's the sellers responsibility to make it right, no matter who's at fault. I'm just sorry that this lesson is being learned in such a horrible event.[/QUOTE]

Reality check, from a Veteran in the industry I'm told just now! Excellent, truthful post right here!

 

[Arizona Tortoise Compound]

Well this will be my last post and Ill continue doing buisness the way I do. I ship live healthy perfect tortoises to customers nationwide weekly. I do guarantee live arrival of my tortoises if all the terms and conditions are met. That is how is it listed, thats how Ive done buisness for the past three years under ATC, thats how I will continue. I have all permits need to maintain my 26 different tortoise species and I will also continue to offer my tortoises nationwide. With the high volume of orders I put out, I can not and will not cover shipper delays, weather or acts of God. Bottom line. In the case of Erik I offered more then what I needed to, to make things right. The time offer is in effect for the way Erik is trying to slam my name and company. Bottom line the terms and conditions are how I run my buisness. The terms are posted and all the other thousands of customers never had a problem with them. I understand this post is permanent . I have nothing to hide and would prefer for all of my customers to read this post before a purchase. I have had one unhappy customer so for in almost 7 years. The way I run my buisness and maintain my tortoises is how I will keep my customers. Ive had this happen before with less valueable tortoises, customers said they understand my terms and would ask for me to go above and beyond which I do depending on the situation. Posting bad comments and threating, that will not get you help for me. Ive received emails from customers today thanking me for their tortoises that just arrived. Im booking a few more shipment for today as well. So I will continue doing buisness today, tomorrow and for many years to come.

Tyler any company can get bad reviews for time to time - http://www.faunatopsites.com/index.php?a=stats&u=1101&all_reviews=1

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I Will put my opinion here as others have and that is what forums are for. Both parties I am sure have the CBW permits or would not be shipping radiateds across state lines. Andrew will be in trouble for this if found out because clearly be brokered a deal for a tortoise that wasn't his as has been made clear and he was offered $300 to broker the deal.
The simple fact to me is that the tortoise would of been fine for a few days even as weather was fine were it not for fact that it was clearly I appropriately packed and shipped by seller. Assuming buyer is telling truth which he says he is and has pictures to prove so much. The tortoise was packed in a box w no air holes and sealed shut with tape. That is wrong. Further, seller got cheap and made a box with styrofoam sides and bottom that could not contain a leak. I breed and raise radiateds of course they will urinate and deaf ate in a box, more so with stress of shipping. Ups did what they always do in that circumstance. Whether or not tortoise was dead already due to a sealed box with no holes is a question that can't be answered. However, if a tortoise was shipped in a correct box w a sealed bottom like a small fish box it would of undoubtedly lived and done well.
Therefore, the tortoise did not die due to UPS delays but died as a direct consequence of incorrect packing. The seller will lose in court and this should go to court. A painful lesson for both parties. Perhaps refunding the money by court order will teach the seller to spend a few bucks and ship a $3000 tortoise in a correct box. Cutting 6 pieces of styrofoam and lining a box is not adequate. Again, not a death due to shipping delays. There is no case against UpS unfortunately, but a strong case against seller. Mistakes he made:
1. Brokering a tortoise and not disclosing it as such. A CBW violation unless original owner has permit. Probably a violation of this site. I know would be of kingsnake if he advertised there also.
2. Packing a live animal in a sealed box with no ventilation holes, this was enough to kill it.
3. Packing in a homemade styrofoam sided his w inability to contain small amount of liquid. This led to ups putting it in plastic bag and its demise if not already dead from the sealed box. CLEARLY the shipping delay had nothing to do with a death that prob happened before it even left Arizona.

I agree with everything in your post minus this point.

. Packing a live animal in a sealed box with no ventilation holes, this was enough to kill it.

It was never a standard to put ventilation holes in the shipping boxes for reptiles. There are many threads here that discuss why people do and don't.

When I first starting shipping about ten years ago I looked to those who have been doing this for years. Those that had twenty years in this business.

I have never put a single ventilation hole in a package. I have yet to have a DOA (knock on wood) and pray I never do. I have shipped and received hundreds of packages without incident.

The whole ventilation stuff started when now a defunct shipping company put forth a video on how to package live reptiles. It was done by one breeder who stated it was necessary. When more and more of the general hobbyist (not breeders) started shipping they looked to that video for guidance and now all of sudden you have people stating that it is a must.

It's garbage and factually not true. Go and look at any shipping thread dating back more than five years and you will not find people ventilating boxes in their tutorial.

I don't do it but also don't seal the box up like fort Knox with tape.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

In my opinion, if a company is willing to ship a tortoise, knowing what that entails and the risks involved, they should be fully responsible for getting a live tortoise to the customer when (not if) FedEx or UPS messes up. If a company is ok with shipping a tortoise in December, the company assumes that responsibility. If you think it's too cold (or hot) to be safe, don't ship the tortoise.

My first feeling when I read this was my insides falling out. I feel horrible about the tortoise. If I was the seller, I would have been shocked, dismayed, and very upset. Then I would pay the buyer back for the full purchase price. Which would also be very upsetting to me. We all work hard for our money, and this is a big hit. But it's also the price we sometimes have to pay in the "live" animal business. It sucks for everyone, including the tortoise. Live delivery is a must. Your customer expects it. But if it doesn't, it's the sellers responsibility to make it right, no matter who's at fault. I'm just sorry that this lesson is being learned in such a horrible event.[/QUOTE]

This

 

[Brandy Pecanic]

Well this will be my last post and Ill continue doing buisness the way I do. I ship live healthy perfect tortoises to customers nationwide weekly. I do guarantee live arrival of my tortoises if all the terms and conditions are met. That is how is it listed, thats how Ive done buisness for the past three years under ATC, thats how I will continue. I have all permits need to maintain my 26 different tortoise species and I will also continue to offer my tortoises nationwide. With the high volume of orders I put out, I can not and will not cover shipper delays, weather or acts of God. Bottom line. In the case of Erik I offered more then what I needed to, to make things right. The time offer is in effect for the way Erik is trying to slam my name and company. Bottom line the terms and conditions are how I run my buisness. The terms are posted and all the other thousands of customers never had a problem with them. I understand this post is permanent . I have nothing to hide and would prefer for all of my customers to read this post before a purchase. I have had one unhappy customer so for in almost 7 years. The way I run my buisness and maintain my tortoises is how I will keep my customers. Ive had this happen before with less valueable tortoises, customers said they understand my terms and would ask for me to go above and beyond which I do depending on the situation. Posting bad comments and threating, that will not get you help for me. Ive received emails from customers today thanking me for their tortoises that just arrived. Im booking a few more shipment for today as well. So I will continue doing buisness today, tomorrow and for many years to come.

Tyler any company can get bad reviews for time to time - http://www.faunatopsites.com/index.php?a=stats&u=1101&all_reviews=1

Ouch! You just sealed your fate right there Andrew... Please recant for your own sake! 2,000 views, in case you missed that. You will want to quit breeding so many Torts, unless you can afford to feed all those bottomless pits, as you will be STUCK with them in the future.

And Andrew, only you, sealed your fate here... Nobody else! You just heard what a real professional would do in this case. If you want to stray from reality, so be it. I hope you have a 'big bag of some good stuff' to keep you from returning back to it.

Let's clear a path so he can walk the walk. I feel real bad for you Andrew, Tom doesn't, but I do! He is still waiting on that phone call, by the way? Are you going to buckle on that as well?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Well this will be my last post and Ill continue doing buisness the way I do. I ship live healthy perfect tortoises to customers nationwide weekly. I do guarantee live arrival of my tortoises if all the terms and conditions are met. That is how is it listed, thats how Ive done buisness for the past three years under ATC, thats how I will continue. I have all permits need to maintain my 26 different tortoise species and I will also continue to offer my tortoises nationwide. With the high volume of orders I put out, I can not and will not cover shipper delays, weather or acts of God. Bottom line. In the case of Erik I offered more then what I needed to, to make things right. The time offer is in effect for the way Erik is trying to slam my name and company. Bottom line the terms and conditions are how I run my buisness. The terms are posted and all the other thousands of customers never had a problem with them. I understand this post is permanent . I have nothing to hide and would prefer for all of my customers to read this post before a purchase. I have had one unhappy customer so for in almost 7 years. The way I run my buisness and maintain my tortoises is how I will keep my customers. Ive had this happen before with less valueable tortoises, customers said they understand my terms and would ask for me to go above and beyond which I do depending on the situation. Posting bad comments and threating, that will not get you help for me. Ive received emails from customers today thanking me for their tortoises that just arrived. Im booking a few more shipment for today as well. So I will continue doing buisness today, tomorrow and for many years to come.

Tyler any company can get bad reviews for time to time - http://www.faunatopsites.com/index.php?a=stats&u=1101&all_reviews=1

Hmm, Always looked at TOS as a way to protect yourself from abuse not to forgo responsibility.

As for the rest, it easy to point to transactions that go as planned. Those types of recommendations about your business are nice but basically those recommendations only show you did what you agreed to do. Send a animal.

It is the transactions that don't go as plan that tell the character of those you are dealing with.

How do you think must reading this are going to feel about you taking care of them if something goes wrong?

 

[ErikL]

I am not a confrontational person. I took no pleasure in initiating this post. I would have been much happier to write a good guy post about how the ATC made the best of a horrible situation, as well as would have helped them recover the loss from ups. As I understand the email Andrew sent me he offered to sell me radiated tortoises at cost which I could re-sell to recoup my loss. For me this will not work out. I suspect that Andrew generally runs a good business, as was indicated by the reviews on this site which I read prior to entering into the transaction. There appears to have been a lapse here. I shipped my tortoise insured, and had it showed up dead, upon proof, a money order would have been in a FedEx envelope immediately for the value of the tortoise. I would have worried about collecting the insurance later.I might ask anyone contributing to this thread, if my tortoise had showed up dead, what ought to happen to me had I responded similarly?