Bad Guy Maelstrom reptile ranch BEWARE

[laterob]

Friday has clearly come and gone. Amanda has been slow in providing stuff here before, but has come through. still, I believe 'under promise and over deliver' is sage advice. The longer it takes to post, the more suspicious it makes this mess look.

The humor of both significant others' misspelling of 'Malestrom' is not lost on me, either.

Another cliche: even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. Melissa was smart to distance herself from this mudslinging nonsense. Whether or not Mike is on the up-and-up, while still a point of curiosity, is a nut found by a blind squirrel. There is enough evidence of plotting and premeditated shenanigans for personal gain to choke a horse. Maybe even while he is chasing a blind squirrel looking for nuts.

Korbin, can I have your old avatar? It shouldn't just fade away...it was too good.

 

[Malestrom]

I did not receive any copy of a vet bill at any point, nor did I ask. I figured if it were genuine it would be forthcoming. Even if it had been provided how would that change anything? My total liability in this if any at all aside from my spoken word to recompense for a broken tail would be the total cost of the animal, certainly not the vet bills. Ive never once taken a lizard to a vet for a 'nipped' tail as it was presented as such and is still debatable by the photos. I am very diligent in the recording of all my packaging believe it in every case step by step as to prevent such claims, sometimes i use movie mode. Well if this would just go to sleep till the week of the 5th like till the 7th or 8th then we could all lay back and say oh its done now.... im looking forward to that day. Sigh**
Thank you Fauna BOI board members and everyone in the evidence they provided. I shall be vindicated.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

PS ... my gawd, I even bored myself with my post ... note to self: brevity is a virtue.

I wasn't bored by it at all. I felt it was a very worthwhile post, but I couldn't give you karma again so soon.

I genuinely believe that Amanda did lose her bearded dragon and is grieving over it.

I think that she is grasping at straws by blaming the seller, possibly because it's easier to blame him than to accept that she may have made a mistake that led to the death of the animal (note: I'm not saying that she did, but guilt is normal whenever a pet is lost).

 

[gymgirlx]

again he admitted to it.

I wish I had a fb screenshot, I also can account that I witnessed the thread that Michael bashed Dennis. He soon defriended me after I recommended NOT breeding rescue dragons, sad.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

I wish I had a fb screenshot, I also can account that I witnessed the thread that Michael bashed Dennis. He soon defriended me after I recommended NOT breeding rescue dragons, sad.

Still doesn't change the fact that Dennis told Michael his geckos were worth $50 then bought the ONE that ended up being an expensive morph.

 

[LauraB]

I wish I had a fb screenshot, I also can account that I witnessed the thread that Michael bashed Dennis. He soon defriended me after I recommended NOT breeding rescue dragons, sad.

Yeah, hindsight and all that stuff.

Go back to Dennis' post #64, page 7 on my laptop. Dennis says it was Oct 5, 2012. Time was 11:25 AM. Dennis was kind enough to post the jpg. Michael asks what Dennis would retail them for, Dennis responds, "since you don't know all teh (sic) genetics 50.00 is a good price but the last one is a high yellow 30-35 is a better price"

Now go back to Dennis' post #47 ; page 5 on my laptop . Please read the obviosulsy edited FB messages that Dennis was eager to post. Note that Dennis has received a gecko and is happy with him. He even says so. Michael asks what is the gecko's retail worth, Dennis responds that "super snow is worth 40-150.00 if you know all the genetics. it turns out after seeing him in person its an eclipse also ... so a little more." And Dennis paid what, $60.00 for the gecko? Note there are no dates on those jpgs, just early morning clock times. That is, until Dennis posts the edited bad-mouthing, which date is Oct. 21 and at nearly 10:00 PM.

Clearly there is conversation missing. Clearly Dennis intentionally lowballed then screamed like a banshee when Michael objected to being misled. Clearly there is communication that Dennis chose to omit.

Clearly Dennis has not been back to try to continue the charade, nor has posted the communication that is missing from that FB jpg despite being asked to do so.
Clearly Dennis has been weighed, measured and been found wanting.

Clearly Amanda has not posted her vet report and clearly Amanda has been screen-captured lying about the condition of the dragon re: antibiotics, the vet visit, etc. Her photos have also been called into question by others here.

Facts speak way louder than allegations, gang intimidation tactics and "I also saw but can't back up" doesn't cut it.

Do you also rescue and resell/rehome dragons, Rachel?

 

[gymgirlx]

Yeah, hindsight and all that stuff.

Go back to Dennis' post #64, page 7 on my laptop. Dennis says it was Oct 5, 2012. Time was 11:25 AM. Dennis was kind enough to post the jpg. Michael asks what Dennis would retail them for, Dennis responds, "since you don't know all teh (sic) genetics 50.00 is a good price but the last one is a high yellow 30-35 is a better price"

Now go back to Dennis' post #47 ; page 5 on my laptop . Please read the obviosulsy edited FB messages that Dennis was eager to post. Note that Dennis has received a gecko and is happy with him. He even says so. Michael asks what is the gecko's retail worth, Dennis responds that "super snow is worth 40-150.00 if you know all the genetics. it turns out after seeing him in person its an eclipse also ... so a little more." And Dennis paid what, $60.00 for the gecko? Note there are no dates on those jpgs, just early morning clock times. That is, until Dennis posts the edited bad-mouthing, which date is Oct. 21 and at nearly 10:00 PM.

Clearly there is conversation missing. Clearly Dennis intentionally lowballed then screamed like a banshee when Michael objected to being misled. Clearly there is communication that Dennis chose to omit.

Clearly Dennis has not been back to try to continue the charade, nor has posted the communication that is missing from that FB jpg despite being asked to do so.
Clearly Dennis has been weighed, measured and been found wanting.

Clearly Amanda has not posted her vet report and clearly Amanda has been screen-captured lying about the condition of the dragon re: antibiotics, the vet visit, etc. Her photos have also been called into question by others here.

Facts speak way louder than allegations, gang intimidation tactics and "I also saw but can't back up" doesn't cut it.

Do you also rescue and resell/rehome dragons, Rachel?

I rescued dragons for a while and rehomed them ( I have also worked at a reptile rescue). I only charged shipping never "selling" an animal. First and foremost caring that the animal would be in the best possible home.

 

[Magical Geckos]

Still doesn't change the fact that Dennis told Michael his geckos were worth $50 then bought the ONE that ended up being an expensive morph.

If its an expensive morph how much is it worth?
How much should i have paid him FOR A GECKO WITH UNKNOWN GENETICS AND THAT WAS UNHEALTHY!!!!!!!!!

I am STILL test breeding to find out its genetics. and will be for atleast another year or 2

 

[laterob]

Dennis...did you, or did you not, make FB posts about what a great deal you got?

 

[Serenescales]

He soon defriended me after I recommended NOT breeding rescue dragons, sad.

I am STILL test breeding to find out its genetics. and will be for atleast another year or 2

So how do you feel about breeding rescue geckos?

Obviously, you stated it was worth more after you acquired the gecko. You're also breeding a "rescued" animal, that might have unknown health issues that you're passing on through breeding...it does have unknown genetics after all. I assume you'll also be selling its offspring, correct?

If you were to turn around, today, and rehome that gecko, how much would you ask for it?

 

[Kristi23]

So how do you feel about breeding rescue geckos?

Obviously, you stated it was worth more after you acquired the gecko. You're also breeding a "rescued" animal, that might have unknown health issues that you're passing on through breeding...it does have unknown genetics after all. I assume you'll also be selling its offspring, correct?

If you were to turn around, today, and rehome that gecko, how much would you ask for it?

I've seen super snow eclipse sell for $150-$600 depending on quality and genetics. If it's het for anything, it's most likely het tremper. Being a male, you could easily test breed it in one season. Unfortunately, a lot of geckos are sold with unknown hets.

 

[Kristi23]

I've seen super snow eclipse sell for $150-$600 depending on quality and genetics. If it's het for anything, it's most likely het tremper. Being a male, you could easily test breed it in one season. Unfortunately, a lot of geckos are sold with unknown hets.

By genetics, I meant who the breeder was. That definitely affects the price.

 

[Magical Geckos]

Dennis...did you, or did you not, make FB posts about what a great deal you got?

No I never discuss prices I said it was a awesome gecko

 

[gymgirlx]

So how do you feel about breeding rescue geckos?

Obviously, you stated it was worth more after you acquired the gecko. You're also breeding a "rescued" animal, that might have unknown health issues that you're passing on through breeding...it does have unknown genetics after all. I assume you'll also be selling its offspring, correct?

If you were to turn around, today, and rehome that gecko, how much would you ask for it?

Not sure why my quote was dragged on in this. As a former reptile rescuer, I'm not for breeding ANY animal that has unknown genetics or possible health problems.

 

[laterob]

Dennis, post #47 is full of prices. I don't do FB, so I wouldn't know if that was posted from there. Where's the conversation where he bashed you?

I can't speak for the poster, but I find it funny that you, Rachel, recommended that people don't breed rescue geckos yet that is exactly what Dennis, whom you came to provide credence for, seems to be doing.

In a nutshell, we have two significant others, Amanda, and an unwitting Melissa who have provided little or no evidence to support their claims. Then we have a character assassination by Dennis, again with no evidence (although he seems to be able to retrieve the stuff that he thinks paints him in a good light ). Now we have Rachel, who in theory is against exactly what Dennis, the person whose story she is corroborating (again, with no evidence), is doing.

Am I the only one left who has never run a rescue?

 

[KORBIN5895]

So I am the only one that wonders if Michael actually owes a refund? So far with all of the lies and lack of proof how do we know that this beardie had a broken tail let alone actually died.

 

[laterob]

It's 5 against one, Dennis...he has to be in the wrong.



Wait, this isn't FB. Ignore that last bit.

 

[TucsonRES]

Am I the only one left who has never run a rescue?

Rob, I think you are the only one who hasn't run or been involved with a rescue. Lol. I run a rescue for aquatic turtles and reptiles. I keep my turtles by size & sex, lizards by sex. I do not want more animals, I try to find homes for those that others dump or give away.

So I am the only one that wonders if Michael actually owes a refund? So far with all of the lies and lack of proof how do we know that this beardie had a broken tail let alone actually died.

I have yet to see proof that this seller is responsible for this animals death. The only reason that I believe that a refund is owed is that the seller did agree to a refund.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I'm not addressing the price Dennis paid for them with my post here but the discussion around breeding rescued animals and what constitutes breeding a rescued animal.

You're also breeding a "rescued" animal, that might have unknown health issues that you're passing on through breeding.

Someone who rescues and re-homes animals is dealing with rescued animals.
Whatever the price, Dennis didn't "rescue" anything he purchased.

The seller would be the one profiting from rescued animals if we are going to go that route in this conversation. Correct? I mean he is disappointed and feels duped about not maximizing his potential profit of a rescued animal, Correct? Again, not saying he was or wasn't or the price he sold them for was fair but the seller is the only one dealing with a so-called rescued animal.

You're also breeding a "rescued" animal, that might have unknown health issues that you're passing on through breeding.

Hmm, that is every single animal the pioneers of breeding every single reptile or any other animal has done. Might have unknown heath issues? That is every single animal out there. Every single new line or morph.

I'm not for breeding ANY animal that has unknown genetics or possible health problems.

Then you simply can't be a reptile breeder because possible heath issues can be with any new animal you work with. If nobody breed any animal without knowing the genetics we would have no new morphs. Nothing but your standard wild caught specimens. Were not talking about dogs here where breeding and genetics have been down pat for different breeds for decades. The fear of the mutt...

Heck, we are just talking about genetics in the sense of color morphs here. Het for this, het for that.

I could just be really tired and missing something but this sounds like a bunch of uptight dog breeders asking were is your dog's pedigree.

Were talking just since the 1990's with this species. Everyone was breeding with completely unknown genetics until what, the last ten years. People still are.

Personally, one of the most fascinating parts of reptile breeding (besides the love for the species you are dealing with) is the genetics and the unknown.
Not everything is worked out or as easily defined as with most mammals.

I do think it is best to define yourself in this hobby, business or animal welfare (rescue) work. Blurring the lines between being a rescuer, supplier and/or breeder is asking for trouble. I find a lot of so called "rescues" to be fraudulent. Just a means to acquire animals cheaply or for free to profit off.

My opinion is if your going to be a rescue be one, if you are in business to make a profit then be honest.

All of this would fall on the shoulders of the seller of the rescued animal not the buyer, would it not?

Dennis paid for the animals, correct? He has to put the time into breeding and proving out the animals for some time. He is responsible for what he sells his animals as and what genetics he labels them with.

That is what all reptile breeders (accept for those who let others do all the work for them) do. Acquire, breed, prove out the genetics and look for any bad traits, heath problems. It will be his offspring with his name on them.

Am I missing something with geckos compared to snakes?

 

[gymgirlx]

I'm not addressing the price Dennis paid for them with my post here but the discussion around breeding rescued animals and what constitutes breeding a rescued animal.




Someone who rescues and re-homes animals is dealing with rescued animals.
Whatever the price, Dennis didn't "rescue" anything he purchased.

The seller would be the one profiting from rescued animals if we are going to go that route in this conversation. Correct? I mean he is disappointed and feels duped about not maximizing his potential profit of a rescued animal, Correct? Again, not saying he was or wasn't or the price he sold them for was fair but the seller is the only one dealing with a so-called rescued animal.



Hmm, that is every single animal the pioneers of breeding every single reptile or any other animal has done. Might have unknown heath issues? That is every single animal out there. Every single new line or morph.




Then you simply can't be a reptile breeder because possible heath issues can be with any new animal you work with. If nobody breed any animal without knowing the genetics we would have no new morphs. Nothing but your standard wild caught specimens. Were not talking about dogs here where breeding and genetics have been down pat for different breeds for decades. The fear of the mutt...

Heck, we are just talking about genetics in the sense of color morphs here. Het for this, het for that.

I could just be really tired and missing something but this sounds like a bunch of uptight dog breeders asking were is your dog's pedigree.

Were talking just since the 1990's with this species. Everyone was breeding with completely unknown genetics until what, the last ten years. People still are.

Personally, one of the most fascinating parts of reptile breeding (besides the love for the species you are dealing with) is the genetics and the unknown.
Not everything is worked out or as easily defined as with most mammals.

I do think it is best to define yourself in this hobby, business or animal welfare (rescue) work. Blurring the lines between being a rescuer, supplier and/or breeder is asking for trouble. I find a lot of so called "rescues" to be fraudulent. Just a means to acquire animals cheaply or for free to profit off.

My opinion is if your going to be a rescue be one, if you are in business to make a profit then be honest.

All of this would fall on the shoulders of the seller of the rescued animal not the buyer, would it not?

Dennis paid for the animals, correct? He has to put the time into breeding and proving out the animals for some time. He is responsible for what he sells his animals as and what genetics he labels them with.

That is what all reptile breeders (accept for those who let others do all the work for them) do. Acquire, breed, prove out the genetics and look for any bad traits, heath problems. It will be his offspring with his name on them.

Am I missing something with geckos compared to snakes?

Nope,I'm not a breeder, never have been. But no " breeder" would breed unhealthy bearded dragons, period. Michael posted about breeding the Trans to a Trans.. Any good breeder would have known that is a big " no no" and a recipe for problems.