The stubenville fiasco

[Wilomn]

A friend of mine put this up over at BP.net which, while a fine site, is nowhere near as diversified and Fauna. The link is forever and after it is my response.

Proceed as you will.

Mods, I am sincere in this but if it's a no no, I understand it being removed.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?193133-Dear-Jane-Doe

I have an opinion on this.

That girl was raped. She may not remember it, which in a way, I think, is fortunate, but she knows it happened, as does the rest of the world. She has to deal with that.

What I, personally, would like to see happen now is for EVERY DAMN KID WHO WAS DRINKING THAT NIGHT to be charged for it. Then the people who supplied them and allowed them to drink should be charged with contributing to the delinquency of minors and as accessories to rape. Start that little ball rolling and see how fast opinions change.

The girl has some responsibility for her behavior. She now, hopefully, knows better than to get falling down passing out drunk, but her responsibility for the acts performed upon her end there. She couldn't say no, so nothing SHOULD have happened. There's some pisspoor parenting going on in stupidville, er stubenville. Everyone who had a kid that did nothing should feel ashamed they ever had kids, everyone who had a kid who joked about it or egged it on should give very serious consideration to ever having another child.

Guys, it doesn't matter when she says no, how she says no, why she says no, you don't GET to put your parts in her parts if she DOESN'T want to. Fingers, penises, dildos, whatever, no means don't do that. So don't. If you, gentlemen, don't have the control and respect to stop when she says to, you're a sorry excuse for a male and will never be a man. Sure, sure, sometimes it's confusing. Anyone who's ever had a relationship with a woman, be it 15 minutes or 15 years, has been confused by her, but in this instance, a man will er on the side of caution and put his pecker away when she says she's done; doesn't matter if you've been making out for hours, if you're naked and more resembling a a fresh cucumber than a wilted lily, no still means no. If she got you that way with every intention of completing your hearts desire and changes her mind, no still means no. At least if you respect both her and yourself it does.

It's not easy boys, not easy at all sometimes, but it's the right thing to do and doing the right thing is always, well, the right thing to do. Do right and you won't be doing jail time or ruining a life, be it yours or hers. We're bigger and stronger and often stupider than our female counterparts. That's life but it's not a free ride on the pussytrain of drunken school girls. BE the guy who protects those who need it. You may get a ration of crap for it, from the ignorant or simply criminal, but you'll be a better person for it on the inside, where maybe only you know, but where it's most important. You will then be an example, maybe unknown to you, but there's always an audience nowadays, or so it seems. You'll also pass on what you learn to your offspring, should you ever reproduce. This too is important. Learn and pass it on.

Without self control, what are you? Seriously, give this thought. If you can't stop yourself from doing anything, eating, drinking, swearing, lying, taking advantage of those who can't protect themselves from you, what, exactly are you? Is that REALLY what you want to be? Why are you this way and how can you change? If you don't want to change, why? Seriously, why? You too weak, too ignorant, too uncaring, just don't care about anyone but your own self? That's a swell way to live. (extreme sarcasm there kids)

This is not alone for heterosexuals either. Whatever gender your partner is, opposite or same as you, all of this applies. If you want to be good and honest, trustworthy and self respecting, that is. Those four things, good and honest and trustworthy and self respecting, those are things we should all strive for. Lack of success is not failure, not trying at all is. Don't be a failure.

 

[Fangthane]

The whole situation is pretty sickening - from the act itself to how some people had a good old time posting videos laughing about what happened. I just can't relate to some of these people as even a member of the same species. As a man, I just can't imagine seeing something like that happening and not quickly putting a stop to it. I don't draw many absolute lines in the sand, but any type of violence against women is something I've never tolerated. I've beaten the hell out of a "friend" for seeing him hit a woman. I can't imagine myself seeing that going on and not going into a berserker rage.

I agree that every single one of those worthless individuals who saw this happening and did nothing should face some consequences. Other than the victim, everyone involved got off way too easily. After their laughably light sentences are up, the rapists should both be castrated. Surgically, not chemically.

 

[Focal]

Kids these days are susceptible to an illness I don't remember seeing when I was growing up. There were issues like this before, yes, but what happened afterwards shocks me more than anything. There was also an incident at a school where a student hazed another by penetrating him in the rear with a piece of rebar. From what I understand, the teacher had some influence behind it.

 

[Shadera]

The whole situation is disgusting. Look back over the last ten years at some of the major news stories. You can see our civilization decay right before your eyes.

Steubenville is a cesspool. (Sorry Garweft ...) I ran truck for DLC Transport out of there for a couple years and everyone had ties to some incredibly shady people. I remember being scared to go get my paycheck at the diner at night if I came in late, and not much scares me. Glad to be gone.

 

[JColt]

I stopped 4 guys from raping a drunken girl once in the military. One of my proudest moments. They told me to mind my own business and I told them I would if they could kill me. Young woman need to be aware that young men and alcohol is a bad mix.

 

[meatisadelicacy]

The girl has some responsibility for her behavior. She now, hopefully, knows better than to get falling down passing out drunk, but her responsibility for the acts performed upon her end there.

This is still victim blaming, as mild as it is. When you're teaching girls not to get drunk so they don't get raped, it's basically saying SO THEY RAPE SOMEONE ELSE. The only thing she should be responsible for after a night of drunkenness is her headache the next day.

Enough of teaching girls who to avoid being raped. Start teaching boys they can't do it.

 

[Wilomn]

This is still victim blaming, as mild as it is. When you're teaching girls not to get drunk so they don't get raped, it's basically saying SO THEY RAPE SOMEONE ELSE. The only thing she should be responsible for after a night of drunkenness is her headache the next day.

Enough of teaching girls who to avoid being raped. Start teaching boys they can't do it.

No Sarah, that's not what I was saying here. She bears NO responsibility for her assault. She is, however, responsible for the poor decisions that lead to her being so drunk that she was assaulted.

Males in general should not take advantage of anyone, male or female, drunk or sober. Some do. Had it been a young man instead of a young woman who had been assaulted, I would have said the exact same thing.

 

[meatisadelicacy]

No Sarah, that's not what I was saying here. She bears NO responsibility for her assault. She is, however, responsible for the poor decisions that lead to her being so drunk that she was assaulted.

Males in general should not take advantage of anyone, male or female, drunk or sober. Some do. Had it been a young man instead of a young woman who had been assaulted, I would have said the exact same thing.

I don't think you're a bad person, it just shows how prevalent rape culture is. You said she is responsible for the decision that made her vulnerable. You are putting blame on her. You are saying she is not responsible, yet her actions put her in that position. That is still blaming her. She't not getting as much blame as the rapists, but she's still being blamed.

A man walks down the street and is mugged. Do we ask why is was walking down the street? Do we ask if he was wearing expensive clothes? Or why he had money in his wallet? Do we ask if he's donated money before? Do we tell him it's his own fault for is the person who mugged him to blame? Yet when a woman is raped, she shouldn't have been drinking. Or alone. She shouldn't have been wearing revealing clothes. She shouldn't have ever had sex before, or she's a slut and just changed her mind.

Like I said, I don't think you're a bad person, but you don't even realize what you're doing. It's not your fault. Our society has conditioned most of us to think that way.

You can reply if you want, but I'm unsubscribing. You don't get it, so I'm not going to waste any more time.

 

[hhmoore]

Sarah, it seems that you are misinterpreting Wes' comment.
Take rape out of the picture, and that part of his message remains the same. Any person that gets THAT drunk bears the same amount of responsibility - regardless of gender, and regardless of the type of misfortune they experience. If it is only a headache the next day, they should consider themselves lucky. If my gf's 21 yr old son got stupid drunk, and fell down the stairs and suffered serious injury, he would bear the blame for drinking so much. That's all Wes is saying. No, that isn't rape - we get it - but it was her level of drunkenness that seems to have been at the root of the mess. That doesn't mean that she couldn't have been raped if she had been stone cold sober...but, that would have been a different story, as I understand it.

 

[Wilomn]

Sarah, it seems that you are misinterpreting Wes' comment.
Take rape out of the picture, and that part of his message remains the same. Any person that gets THAT drunk bears the same amount of responsibility - regardless of gender, and regardless of the type of misfortune they experience. If it is only a headache the next day, they should consider themselves lucky. If my gf's 21 yr old son got stupid drunk, and fell down the stairs and suffered serious injury, he would bear the blame for drinking so much. That's all Wes is saying. No, that isn't rape - we get it - but it was her level of drunkenness that seems to have been at the root of the mess. That doesn't mean that she couldn't have been raped if she had been stone cold sober...but, that would have been a different story, as I understand it.

Thanks Harrald, I"m glad some of the readers are smart enough to get it.

 

[Wilomn]

Sorry about the double "r" Harold, sausage finger syndrome.

 

[meatisadelicacy]

Thanks Harrald, I"m glad some of the readers are smart enough to get it.

So I'm stupid now? Because I think you're wrong? I guess I am stupid, 'cause against my better judgement, I checked this thread again.

Rape. Culture. Victim Blaming. You're both doing it. Why don't you Google it for yourself, since you don't seem to grasp the idea when I explain it. Or do you truly not care? Take a minute. See if you're wrong. You obviously feel strongly about this. Why not go educate yourselves so you can at least PROVE how wrong I am. Spoiler alert: I'm not.

To say over and over and over again that she has no blame, but if she had chosen to stay sober it wouldn't have happened, IS BLAMING HER. You are saying that her actions, in part, led to her being raped. That. Is. Victim. Blaming.

How can you truly not understand that you are placing blame on her? How? Gravity doesn't choose to knock someone down the stairs. Men do choose to stick their dicks inside vulnerable women. Why you would even make the comparison is staggering. THERE IS NO LAW OF PHYSICS THAT STATES WHEN A WOMAN IS DRUNK, A MAN CANNOT CONTROL HIMSELF AND WILL RAPE HER.

I hope if you have kids they're girls. We don't need more boys being raised by people who think it's up to the girls to not get raped.

 

[meatisadelicacy]

but it was her level of drunkenness that seems to have been at the root of the mess.

THE ROOT OF THE MESS WAS THAT THOSE BOYS DECIDED TO VIOLATE HER. THE ROOT OF THE MESS IS NOT THAT SHE WAS DRUNK.

THIS IS VICTIM BLAMING.

 

[Mistyck]

You are out of your damn mind. You start an account on this forum to just gripe and moan about what one person posts on this topic? GROW UP! Yes it was wrong for them to violate her, and she was stupid to put herself in that position by drinking that much. Both parties (victim and violators) are in the wrong in this situation.

ROOT of this MESS being that she should have never put herself in that type of situation, and then to get so drunk that she could get taken advantage of. She should have known better. Now on to the violators, YES they took advantage of the victim, and YES they should have known better as well. They should have NEVER violated her, and taken advantage of her the way that they did. PERIOD.

Now just because you want to piss and moan about the way that Wes is explaining his OPINION, that makes him a bad guy...WTFE. If you can't see what he's saying without the DRAMA that you're choosing to bring into this thread, then that's your problem. I can clearly see what point he is making, and NO he is not VICTIM BLAMING. Now if that's as far as you can see then you are not seeing past the end of your nose.

Harald gets what Wes is saying, and I do as well. It's your problem if you want to take things the opposite way of the way they were stated and misconstrue what was typed to put your own opinion out there.

BTW, no one said you were stupid, he clearly just stated that he was glad someone was smart enough to understand what he typed out. WHERE in that statement does it say, "Sarah is stupid, and you're smart Harald"?

 

[Mistyck]

I hope if you have kids they're girls. We don't need more boys being raised by people who think it's up to the girls to not get raped.

It's not up to the girls to not get raped, it's up to them to be aware of their surroundings, and not put themselves in a position to where stupid things can happen to them. POINT BLANK! If you think that someone else should be looking out for the girls in society, then that's BULL, PERIOD. I don't know how the hell you were raised, but I'll be damned if I'm going to raise my KIDS to think that everything is hunky dory and people look out for other people. That doesn't happen these days. And if you think that people still care about other people, then you're going to be in for a world of hurt if something happens in your life. People don't give a flying Rat's ARSE about other people, or the predicaments that they put THEMSELVES in.

I have a daughter, and she is going to be brought up the same way I was; Take care of 'YOURSELF' and don't let 'YOURSELF' get in a position where stupid can happen to you. If 'YOURSELF' cannot do that, than 'YOURSELF' needs to get out of said situation, before doing stupid to put 'YOURSELF' in a worse predicament.

Now if you can't comprehend that, then I don't know what to tell you. Be a BIG girl and watch over 'YOURSELF' because no one else is going to do so for you.

 

[Mistyck]

Thanks Harrald, I"m glad some of the readers are smart enough to get it.

Wes, I totally understood what you were saying, and

 

[meatisadelicacy]

You are out of your damn mind. You start an account on this forum to just gripe and moan about what one person posts on this topic? GROW UP! Yes it was wrong for them to violate her, and she was stupid to put herself in that position by drinking that much.

ROOT of this MESS being that she should have never put herself in that type of situation, and then to get so drunk that she could get taken advantage of. She should have known better. Now on to the violators, YES they took advantage of the victim, and YES they should have known better as well. They should have NEVER violated her, and taken advantage of her the way that they did. PERIOD.

Now just because you want to piss and moan about the way that Wes is explaining his OPINION, that makes him a bad guy...WTFE. If you can't see what he's saying without the DRAMA that you're choosing to bring into this thread, then that's your problem. I can clearly see what point he is making, and NO he is not VICTIM BLAMING. Now if that's as far as you can see then you are not seeing past the end of your nose.

Harald gets what Wes is saying, and I do as well. It's your problem if you want to take things the opposite way of the way they were stated and misconstrue what was typed to put your own opinion out there.

BTW, no one said you were stupid, he clearly just stated that he was glad someone was smart enough to understand what he typed out. WHERE in that statement does it say, "Sarah is stupid, and you're smart Harald"?

No, I did not start an account here just to educate ignorant people who blame victims like yourselves, but when I see it happening over and over again, I'm disgusted. I started an account to find some cool animals, and I find another place for men to blame women for the brutal acts committed against them.

YOU SAY YOU ARE NOT VICTIM BLAMING. THEN YOU SAY "Both parties (victim and violators) are in the wrong in this situation." Are you truly that stupid? That you can't comprehend that saying "the victim is wrong" is placing blame?

And sweetie, I know that there are bad people in the world, and we need to protect ourselves. The sad thing is that when it comes to rape, it's not about teaching BOYS NOT TO RAPE, IT'S ABOUT TEACHING GIRLS HOW TO PROTECT THEMSELVES. You're saying that men cannot control themselves. They don't have compassion or rational thought. It's up to women to keep themselves safe. Men are dangerous animals. I'm not surprised you don't understand why this is wrong.

No matter how you try to say you aren't blaming her, you are. You're willfully ignorant, and that's a sad thing.

Lemme show you an example if what is and is not victim blaming.

Those boys shouldn't have raped her. -Not victim blaming.

Those boys shouldn't have raped her, but she was drunk. -VICTIM BLAMING

You guys keep adding a "but". VICTIM BLAMING.

A WOMAN WHO IS RAPED IS NEVER WRONG. SHE CAN WEAR WHAT SHE WANTS. DRINK WHAT SHE WANTS. BE ALONE ALL SHE WANTS. It is not her fault that a man chooses to rape her.

I'm done with this thread. Have fun patting each other on the backs, basking in rape culture, and being no more enlightened than you were a few days ago.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I hope if you have kids they're girls. We don't need more boys being raised by people who think it's up to the girls to not get raped.

Hmm, this must of been posted on the wrong thread. I can't find where anybody stated that.

 

[Mistyck]

No, I did not start an account here just to educate ignorant people who blame victims like yourselves, but when I see it happening over and over again, I'm disgusted. I started an account to find some cool animals, and I find another place for men to blame women for the brutal acts committed against them.

YOU SAY YOU ARE NOT VICTIM BLAMING. THEN YOU SAY "Both parties (victim and violators) are in the wrong in this situation." Are you truly that stupid? That you can't comprehend that saying "the victim is wrong" is placing blame?

And sweetie, I know that there are bad people in the world, and we need to protect ourselves. The sad thing is that when it comes to rape, it's not about teaching BOYS NOT TO RAPE, IT'S ABOUT TEACHING GIRLS HOW TO PROTECT THEMSELVES. You're saying that men cannot control themselves. They don't have compassion or rational thought. It's up to women to keep themselves safe. Men are dangerous animals. I'm not surprised you don't understand why this is wrong.

No matter how you try to say you aren't blaming her, you are. You're willfully ignorant, and that's a sad thing.

Lemme show you an example if what is and is not victim blaming.

Those boys shouldn't have raped her. -Not victim blaming.

Those boys shouldn't have raped her, but she was drunk. -VICTIM BLAMING

You guys keep adding a "but". VICTIM BLAMING.

A WOMAN WHO IS RAPED IS NEVER WRONG. SHE CAN WEAR WHAT SHE WANTS. DRINK WHAT SHE WANTS. BE ALONE ALL SHE WANTS. It is not her fault that a man chooses to rape her.

I'm done with this thread. Have fun patting each other on the backs, basking in rape culture, and being no more enlightened than you were a few days ago.

I am not your "Sweetie", and you're full of . If you want to continue your BS, then please feel free. I have been raped, and I shouldn't have put myself in the position I was in when I was raped. So if you want to keep spouting off at the mouth, then go for it, you ignorant plebeian. If you think that just because a woman can get drunk, act a slut, and dress a slut that it's not her fault for MONITORING her surroundings, then you seriously need HELP.

Sorry you feel that you have to spout off at the mouth and continue your "boys should know better" crap. But some men just don't GIVE A DAMN! And if you think that it's because they way they were raised, or not raised, that's not entirely true. If you want to attack me and tell me that I'm IGNORANT for my beliefs that a woman had better watch out for herself, then BY GOD I guess I'm ignorant. But you "SWEETIE" are ignorant too, by your own definition. ENJOY. And don't let the door hit you where the good LORD split you on your way out of this thread. Good riddance.

 

[Mistyck]

You see exactly what you want to see, and that's not our problem. If you want to continue to think that it's "men blaming women for situations" then you're out of your damned mind. You can spew off all you want about men this, men that, but dammit, WOMEN need to be held accountable for their actions too. Quit being so damned sexist towards men and get your head out of your butt and see this thread for what it is...