Bad Guy Ty Park I Think We should Reconsider his Rep

[Jasmine88]

Ty Park has an ad up, right now, for Russian tortoises, 4-5" for $55 plus shipping. It arrived on time, with a severe case of mouth rot. I am simply going to post all of our e-mails back and forth and let you decide. Myself, I wouldn't recommend him to anyone. He still has his ad up.


Maybe some, maybe most people are going to think this is my fault, that I should have sent him back. But, Park selling an animal with mouth rot to me, as a former breeder and seller of Sri Lankans, is pretty unforgiveable.

Then, no apology, no compassion for a customer who doesn't want to abandon an animal, I'm not accustomed to doing that. Once he's out of my hands, he could be euthanized. It was shipped to me like this, so its welfare is my business, in my opinion. Park didn't care about the fact that I have to travel 50 miles (round trip) to ship him back, either. To me, this is the worst attitude a dealer or anyone could have. When I sold hatchlings for ten years, I made sure customers were completely satisfied. I can't see doing it any other way.

I tried to send the e-mails in an attachment, it didn't work. I don't think any are missing, (Except the initial ones where we talked about shipping), but for some reason this wasn't easy. I ended up posting all of my e-mails first, then Parks. I hope you can make sense of them.
Deb Thomas

Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Deb Thomas

To

Ty Park

Hello, the RT arrived today on time. He has mouth rot. If I'd known I was going to have to take him to the vet, I would have paid $200 for a CBB baby. I don't even know if he is going to survive. This is the first time I've ever recieved an ill tortoise. What are you going to do about this?


Deb T
From: Ty Park <[email protected]>
To: Deb Thomas <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 6:51 AM

Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Deb Thomas

To

Ty Park

What will happen to him? Will you treat him?


Deb T
Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Deb Thomas

To

Ty Park

Ok, I'll send him back. I'm not used to turning away an animal because it's ill. you wouldn't consider paying for a vet visit if I send you photos?


Deb T

Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Deb Thomas

To

Ty Park

I guess I'd better send him back, I have no idea how many vet visits it will take.
How will the label come, over the computer? Is it something I have to print out?


Deb T

Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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Re: Ill Tortoise
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From

Deb Thomas

To

[email protected]

Hello TY,
I've decided that I can't in good conscience return the tortoise to you. I am worried that,
because this is an inexpensive tortoise, your vet may decide that it is not worth the lengthy
treatment that it most likely will require. I don't want him to be destroyed. I raised and
bred Sri Lankan star tortoises, among others, for over 15 years and I love them. This
tortoise appears rather old and in addition to the extensive mouth rot, likely has parasites
and possibly other issues. I would understand why a dealer wouldn't want to waste his
money on a single, very ill animal.
I want to bring him to my vet for anti-biotics, I have all the rest of the supplies needed
to treat him. I will send you photos of the vet reciept and of the tortoises mouth. I am
asking, though, that you pleases refund my money. This is traumatic for me, to see an
animal in this condition, but I want to help it.
Before I purchased him from you, I looked up your ratings on the Faunaclassifieds
BOI and saw that you had an excellent reputation. For that reason, I'm hoping that you
will make me, your customer, happy by accepting my request for a refund.
If you do, which will make this whole situation much easier for me and less upsetting, as
I won't be worried about the tortoise and would rather care for him and cure him rather
than rejecting him, I would see no reason not to give you another excellent rating, because it would cause me to believe that you had no idea this animal was ill when you acquired him or
shipped him to me.
Please believe that I am requesting this refund instead of returning the tortoise because
of my love for tortoises and not to make things difficult for you.

I am taking the tortoise to my vet this morning, I would appreciate it if you would refund
my money as soon as possible, because I'm sure I most likely will not have enough to
cover the vet visit and the medicine, both. Once our transaction is done and I've gotten
my refund, I will not bother you about this tortoise, regardless if it survives or not. It
would be out of your hands at that point and my responsibility alone.

Deb T

Deb T
Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Deb Thomas

To

Ty

I don't have a choice? I paid $90 for an ill tortoise, now I have to travel 50 miles to return him,
which will make me feel guilty, not helping him and I have no choice in the matter? When I
sold hatchlings all of my customers were completely satisfied, but if this had happened to me,
one of my tortoises was sent with mouth rot, I would have APOLOGIZED, and done whatever
would make the customer happy. You act like this is "business as usual" for you. Do you think if
that if I report on the BOI that you sold me a tortoise with mouth rot, customers will be lining up
at your door to buy russian tortoises? Whether you knew it had mouth rot when you sent it, or don't
have any idea regarding the condition of the animals that you buy and sell, it looks pretty bad in
regards to your knowledge of the animals that you deal. This situation is why many people choose
to deal with breeders, not dealers. Too many dealers don't seem to care about the animals. Not
impressive to customers. And I notice that you still have your ad up, though I believe anyone,
including me, would believe that this tortoise with mouth rot was in contact with all your other
Russians. You may not think that I have a choice, but you do, get a complaint and a report that
you sell sick tortoises on the BOI, and refuse to make it right, or give me my refund and I'll send you documentation of the tortoises illness. THAT is fair, the customer shouldn't be forced to deal with
this mess.
Deb T

Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Deb Thomas

To

Ty Park

Ty, I'm 54 years old, I was not born yesterday. Most breeders do not waste time treating low-end
animals who need intensive care, you are a dealer. Millions of dogs and cats are euthanized every
year by people who dearly love animals, but you want me to believe that you would adamantly refuse
to euthanize a common russian tortoise, when you make huge profits selling so many animals. This baffles me. You offered to send $10,000 to any legitimate charity for a customer if he proved he was
telling the truth. You could afford to do that, but you won't do this simple thing, to do the right
thing, the kind thing?


Deb T
Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Deb Thomas

To

Ty Park

I can only go by your attitude toward me regarding this problem, beginning with your very
first e-mail. If you were polite and apologetic, I might believe you when you say you'd
treat him. I simply do not trust you and at this point, I'd rather post about the whole
situation on the BOI rather than get my money back.

Dealers and breeders alike are judged not by
how the transaction goes when everything goes smoothly, but by how the seller behaves toward
the customer when things go wrong through no fault of the customer. You seem to think there
is nothing wrong with inconveniencing me, making me feel terrible about a seriously ill tortoise who,
so far, has shown no interest in eating and, according to what I know about this disease, is in
quite a lot of pain, which is most likely why it shows no interest in eating. You haven't the slightest
understanding of people like me who feel bad about rejecting an animal who is in dire need of
help. Is it all about profit? You don't need to answer that. And I'm sure that you can "talk to your
employee" without my tortoise being present.

You cannot even be bothered with an apology. You couldn't be any more arrogant. If you think your reputation isn't worth $90 and an apology, I think people need to know what you think of your customers and how little you know about the animals you're sending out. Why is your ad for the Russians still up, do you keep each one isolated in its own cage. You obviously do not have
them vet checked when you recieve them. God.

Enjoy spending the $90, I'll be at the vet spending God knows what.






Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Ty Park

To

Deb Thomas

I will refund the money as soon as I have him back. We have no kill policy here at the farm and he will be treated because we have a vet on monthly retainer. He won't cost us any extra to treat.

Ty

Sent from my iPad



Deb T
From: Ty Park <[email protected]>
To: Deb Thomas <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD

You act like you are a savior, better than me! The right thing and the kind thing for you to do is to return him so that we can take care of him here. I have a legitimate farm here and I am not like most breeders or "dealer" like you are implying.

Ty

Sent from my iPad

Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Ty Park
On Jul 10, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Deb Thomas <[email protected]> wrote:
Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Ty Park

To

Deb Thomas

I will send FedEx to pick him up. If you wish you can post on BOI if you want.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 10, 2013, at 10:33 AM, Deb Thomas <[email protected]> wrote:

Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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Ty Park

To

Deb Thomas

You have not sent any evidence that this tortoise is sick and yet you want me to refund you money? I am being very fair in having him shipped back without any cost to you. I also want him back so that it will be a good lesson for my employee who pick him so that I can show him again what she needs to look for.

Ty

Sent from my iPad


Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Ty

To

Deb Thomas

You do not have a choice in the matter. I have a very good vet. You will have to return him today.

Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 10, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Deb Thomas <[email protected]> wrote:

From

Ty Park

To

Deb Thomas

The right thing to do in this case is for you to return the tortoise to me so that I can give him the right treatment. Please return him so that I can give him the right treatment. I also want to see him and have a meeting with my employee so that this wont happen again.

Sent from my iPad




Re: Message about: Russian Tortoise from [email protected]
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From

Ty Park

To

[email protected]

CC

[email protected]

I don't know...I can check for you.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:33 PM, [email protected] wrote:

Re: Message about: Russian Tortoise from [email protected]
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From

Ty Park

To

Deb Thomas

I can do 35.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:52 PM, Deb Thomas <[email protected]> wrote:

> Thank you!
>
> Deb T

Re: Message about: Russian Tortoise from [email protected]
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From

Ty Park

To

Deb Thomas

Yes

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 5, 2013, at 4:24 PM, Deb Thomas <[email protected]> wrote:

$90 to [email protected]

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 6, 2013, at 8:34 PM, Deb Thomas <[email protected]> wrote:

Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Ty Park

To

Deb Thomas

Yes if you want to breed them. No if you are not breeding them.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 7, 2013, at 1:37 AM, Deb Thomas <[email protected]> wrote:

Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Ty

To

Deb Thomas

Yes but to Alaska there is no morning delivery. You should have by 5pm next day

Sent from my iPhone


Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Ty

To

Deb Thomas

So u want a male right?

Sent from my iPhone


Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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[email protected]

To

[email protected]
[email protected]

Yes, it shipped today via FedEx Priority Overnite Express
track number 5302 1796 5915 arrival tuesday
-----Original Message-----
From: Ty Park <[email protected]>
To: lascolindsay <[email protected]>; Anna Wylie <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Jul 8, 2013 5:23 pm
Subject: Fwd: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD



Sent from my iPad

Begin forwarded message:
Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Ty Park

To

Deb Thomas

CC

[email protected]
Anna Wylie

Please return him I will send a label in the morning.

Sent from my iPad


Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Ty Park

To

Deb Thomas

Yes we have a vet on retainer.

Sent from my iPad


Re: Deborah Thomas sent you 90.00 USD
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From

Ty

To

Deb Thomas

No I have my own vet.

Sent from my iPhone

 

[Lucille]

From

Ty Park

To

Deb Thomas

You have not sent any evidence that this tortoise is sick and yet you want me to refund you money? I am being very fair in having him shipped back without any cost to you. I also want him back so that it will be a good lesson for my employee who pick him so that I can show him again what she needs to look for.

Ty

Sent from my iPad

The seller should not have sent out a tortoise with mouth rot and I'm sorry you had to deal with receiving a critter like that. But he is offering to pay the shipping back, to refund you on his receipt of the critter, and to have it treated.
That sounds reasonable to me.

From

Ty Park

To

Deb Thomas

I will refund the money as soon as I have him back. We have no kill policy here at the farm and he will be treated because we have a vet on monthly retainer. He won't cost us any extra to treat.

Ty

Sent from my iPad

 

[mxracer4life]

The seller should not have sent out a tortoise with mouth rot and I'm sorry you had to deal with receiving a critter like that. But he is offering to pay the shipping back, to refund you on his receipt of the critter, and to have it treated.
That sounds reasonable to me.

Sounds reasonable to me too.

 

[hhmoore]

You may be unhappy; but there is no getting around the fact that the seller offered to do the right thing - take the animal back, and give you a full refund.
Your complaint about having to travel 50 miles to return the tortoise can be disregarded, IMO, because the seller told you he would have it picked up by FedEx.

That said, I can understand hesitancy to (return) ship a sick animal; but choosing to keep it lays the responsibility for treatment on you. The seller is not required to pay vet bills, or provide a refund, just because a buyer decides that he/she doesn't like the offered option of returning for a full refund.

 

[Jasmine88]

Mouth Rot RT

Honestly, I missed the part about offering Fedex to pick the tort up. Ty seemed so unconcerned about the tortoise, I can't give it up, I don't trust what would happen to it.

Because I knew I was going to keep him, I gathered all my first aid stuff together and tweezed the yellow gobs out of his mouth. I was so focused on treating him, I didn't have my husband take a photo when I had his mouth open, as I'd planned. So, I suppose my info isn't much good to anyone. I can tell you though, I knew my animals well enough, when I was a breeder, to know if they were sick and I never would have sent a sick animal. If it had happened, though, like it did with TY, I wouldn't have been so flippant, I'd have been mortified. And, if a customer told me they were a former breeder and they would treat it and take it to the vet, I'd be happy to let them and give them a refund and either pay the vet bills OR send them another healthy animal, letting them keep the original. It's just how I am, the animals come first, not the money. I'm flabbergasted over the concern about $90 when the tort is sick and can't get any benefit being shipped back and forth in the mail.
Anyway, I was able to get every bit of that yellow gunk that I could see and the tort doesn't even look stressed, so I'm really happy. I used betadine and I put a tiny bit of jumpstart in his mouth, maybe he won't need a vet visit, just some swabbing for a couple of weeks, though I am going to bring in a stool sample.

I do understand people thinking ty was reasonable taking the animal back, but I'm already attached to it. It just wasn't the way I wanted to go.

 

[AltitudeExotics]

I completely agree, the seller offered to pay for return shipping (that alone is more than most breeders would do) and to refund your money. You refused to let that happen, so now its all on you. The seller tried to do the right thing and you literally would not let him because you "didn't trust him"? If you don't trust him to treat the animal and would rather treat it yourself, then you have the right to do so. That however gives you zero right to get your money back. This is how making a purchase works: You pick out an item (the tortoise), you pay for the item, you keep the item. If you choose to keep the item why would you not have to pay for it? If you bought a car and found out it had a broken axle would you demand a full refund plus be allow to keep the car so you could fix it yourself?

You should have never received an animal in this condition, but mistakes can happen, and Ty was more than willing to fix it. Other than that I see no reason for this post to exist.

 

[Jasmine88]

An item

See, it's just me, but the difference is that this is not an "item" and I believe in being compassionate, causing as little trauma as possible, for all concerned. If I'm dead wrong in everyones eyes, I still believe what I believe, I won't change, I couldn't.

 

[mxracer4life]

Honestly, I missed the part about offering Fedex to pick the tort up. Ty seemed so unconcerned about the tortoise, I can't give it up, I don't trust what would happen to it.

Because I knew I was going to keep him, I gathered all my first aid stuff together and tweezed the yellow gobs out of his mouth. I was so focused on treating him, I didn't have my husband take a photo when I had his mouth open, as I'd planned. So, I suppose my info isn't much good to anyone. I can tell you though, I knew my animals well enough, when I was a breeder, to know if they were sick and I never would have sent a sick animal. If it had happened, though, like it did with TY, I wouldn't have been so flippant, I'd have been mortified. And, if a customer told me they were a former breeder and they would treat it and take it to the vet, I'd be happy to let them and give them a refund and either pay the vet bills OR send them another healthy animal, letting them keep the original. It's just how I am, the animals come first, not the money. I'm flabbergasted over the concern about $90 when the tort is sick and can't get any benefit being shipped back and forth in the mail.
Anyway, I was able to get every bit of that yellow gunk that I could see and the tort doesn't even look stressed, so I'm really happy. I used betadine and I put a tiny bit of jumpstart in his mouth, maybe he won't need a vet visit, just some swabbing for a couple of weeks, though I am going to bring in a stool sample.

I do understand people thinking ty was reasonable taking the animal back, but I'm already attached to it. It just wasn't the way I wanted to go.

It is common practice for someone to refund for a mistake OR send a different animal, but NOT to pay for vet bills. I have been in this business for 15 years and you hardly ever see someone willing to do this. I can understand your worry about this whole situation and the health of the little one but none of this is reason to start a Bad Guy thread.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Honestly, I missed the part about offering Fedex to pick the tort up. Ty seemed so unconcerned about the tortoise, I can't give it up, I don't trust what would happen to it.

Could you do everyone one a small favor and point out the uncaring part in the emails you provided?

I would seriously like to see it. This is what I found when reading the emails twice.

I will refund the money as soon as I have him back. We have no kill policy here at the farm and he will be treated because we have a vet on monthly retainer. He won't cost us any extra to treat.

The right thing and the kind thing for you to do is to return him so that we can take care of him here. I have a legitimate farm here and I am not like most breeders or "dealer" like you are implying.

Ty

I will send FedEx to pick him up. If you wish you can post on BOI if you want.

You have not sent any evidence that this tortoise is sick and yet you want me to refund you money? I am being very fair in having him shipped back without any cost to you. I also want him back so that it will be a good lesson for my employee who pick him so that I can show him again what she needs to look for.

You do not have a choice in the matter. I have a very good vet. You will have to return him today.

The right thing to do in this case is for you to return the tortoise to me so that I can give him the right treatment. Please return him so that I can give him the right treatment. I also want to see him and have a meeting with my employee so that this wont happen again.

Please return him I will send a label in the morning.

Yes we have a vet on retainer.

No I have my own vet.

 

[Redfeet]

Has any proof even been shown the tort has mouth rot? I find it ironic this is thread was even presented without it???? Ty definetly has been more than reasonable considering what I have read.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

It is hard to piece the emails together because of the format and some of them or missing the time sent.

Basically as I read it.

You sent a email explaining the condition asking what he will do.

He sends a email back stating the right thing to do is send him back and he will send you a shipping label and refund.

You then follow that with you want to take him to the Vet and he cover the costs.

Correct so far?

He then states - No, I have my own VET, he'll be treated and his employee we be educated by the situation. Again he is paying for the pick up and returning your funds.

You agree then change your mind.

You then dictate the terms.

You then go on to state that your going to keep him bring him to the VET and want him to refund.

Let me remind you you still have provided no evidence of the sick animal here or to the dealer.

You then go on to state-

You may not think that I have a choice, but you do, get a complaint and a report that
you sell sick tortoises on the BOI, and refuse to make it right, or give me my refund and I'll send you documentation of the tortoises illness. THAT is fair, the customer shouldn't be forced to deal with
this mess.

I am taking the tortoise to my vet this morning, I would appreciate it if you would refund
my money as soon as possible, because I'm sure I most likely will not have enough to
cover the vet visit and the medicine, both. Once our transaction is done and I've gotten
my refund, I will not bother you about this tortoise, regardless if it survives or not. It
would be out of your hands at that point and my responsibility alone.

I can't find any nasty responses from TY. You talked considerably about his bad attitude and not caring but the only nasty, degrading comments were made by you.

You stated in your emails and here that your only concern is for the animal but yet in your email you stated that his other animals have been exposed to a contagious situation and others are at risk and asked why his ad is still up.

Basically you stated you would keep quit and not post a BOI if you bows to your demands.

Does that really equate to caring about the animals or the people on this board or anyone that would buy animals from him if you simply would look the other way if he relents down to your demands?

I think not. It was simply a blackmail attempt.

 

[Lucille]

I would see no reason not to give you another excellent rating, because it would cause me to believe that you had no idea this animal was ill when you acquired him or
shipped him to me.

This offer of a good rating in exchange for a refund does not sit well.

 

[typherp]

I don't know what to say about this post. I have tried to be reasonable and nice to her but her implication that we will not take proper care and give him the proper medical treatment is what made me angry. If we did send a sick tortoise, I want him to be returned for full refund so that I can see the tortoise personally and properly retrain my staff so that problem like this do not happen in the future. I have sold 1500+ Russian tortoises in last 3 month without any complaint. This doesn't make this matter better but I am willing to fix the problem if she would just be reasonable about this. She has been very demanding about keeping him without any proof that this tortoise is sick.

 

[AltitudeExotics]

See, it's just me, but the difference is that this is not an "item" and I believe in being compassionate, causing as little trauma as possible, for all concerned. If I'm dead wrong in everyones eyes, I still believe what I believe, I won't change, I couldn't.

And you are perfectly entitled to think that and believing as you do. I don't think that is wrong of you at all. However, YOU need to take responsibility for what that means, and in this case your beliefs mean you keep the animals and are not entitled to a refund.

 

[kanozig]

Well said Ty...

 

[AltitudeExotics]

Also, the poster goes on and on about refusing to return the animal because she does not believe Ty will actually take it to a vet and have it treated. Later she goes on to claim she self treated the animal and has not and is not planning on taking it to the vet....
That sounds a heck of a lot more like someone looking for a free tortoise than someone who's number 1 concern is the animals well being to me.

 

[typherp]

Key reasons why I did not bend to her demands were:

1) she did not provide any proof this tortoise was sick.
2) I did not like her "blackmail" tone.
3) she was very condescending to me.

 

[Jasmine88]

Looking for a free tortoise?

You're out of your mind. When I was raising Sri Lankans, a woman and man named j & L blum gave me a sob story about their disabled daughter and how she missed haveing the sri lankans that they had to sell because of medical bills. I gave them four tortoises, no charge. She turned right around and sold them telling the party they were from D. Beard in Florida. Larry in New York got them. That's the way I do business, ie. I have little business sense. Your problem is you havn't experienced the way I treat people. If I'm demanding, it's because I've never recieved an animal with mouth rot. I couldn't help myself. This board gives you the right to disagree, why go further.

 

[Lucille]

Also, the poster goes on and on about refusing to return the animal because she does not believe Ty will actually take it to a vet and have it treated. Later she goes on to claim she self treated the animal and has not and is not planning on taking it to the vet....
That sounds a heck of a lot more like someone looking for a free tortoise than someone who's number 1 concern is the animals well being to me.

I'm starting to wonder whether the tort was actually ever ill. For someone who took great pains to demand a refund, who claims to have been a breeder, and who actually mentioned taking photos several times but never got around to doing it, this buyer has conveniently not offered proof.

 

[hhmoore]

That's the way I do business, ie. I have little business sense.

That's fine, a lot of people don't...but Ty Park doesn't seem to be one of them. Your approach "back in the day" has absolutely nothing to do with this situation.
You declined the offered refund upon return; stating that you wanted to keep the animal and get a refund. BZZZZ - wrong answer.
You suggested that the tortoise wouldn't receive proper veterinary care if you sent it back; then treated it yourself & said that it might not need to go to the vet. Wrong answer again.
You showed no evidence that there was even a problem; and now you state that you've totally cleaned up the mouth, but failed to take pictures before, during, or after the process. And everybody, Ty included, is just supposed to take your word for it?