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Bad Guy Backwater Reptiles

That is a pretty sick looking snake... WC or not, I sure as heck would not be happy purchasing it and then opening the box only to find THAT?!? ughhhh, That snake should have been quarantined and treated BEFORE it was sold/ sent out...
 
Here's one more pic I just took of her mouth. There's been bubbles and and now it looks like some green. So I don't know if she has mouth rot along with the RI or what.

74D3C487-51A8-4778-A3FC-1C9524DD9FB5-12397-0000089450C17488.jpg
 
The vet said she deffinitly has an RI. He opened her mouth and could see alot of mucus and pus where the nostrils are and he said it was also inflamed. She's getting meds for that. He said he doesn't see mites so he doesn't know if that's what the bumps are from but said he will treat just incase. She's also getting antibiotics because he popped one of the bumps and it has hard pus inside. He said the bacteria from that can get into her bloodstream. A little nervous to have to inject her. Also said to keep her relatively dry until she's better.
 
I am very glad you are getting Luna to a vet and giving her the care she needs. It always gives me hope when I see a responsible owner doing everything they can. It helps balance out the nauseating amount of people who let their animals suffer, and ship out unhealthy snakes.

I think it would be appropriate of Backwater to compensate whatever veterinary costs exceed her purchase price. But I don't have a lot of faith in their willingness to do that. I see no reason to defend the seller here, even though I initially felt the OP was jumping the gun a little by assuming the snake had mites.
 
Jessica29 said:
She's also getting antibiotics because he popped one of the bumps and it has hard pus inside. He said the bacteria from that can get into her bloodstream.
Click to expand...

Yuck. That sucks.

What antibiotics are you administering?

Injecting the antibiotics IM is not that bad. Pretty basic once you get the hang of it. Anterior third, in the muscle adjacent to the spine. The clinic usually shows you how to do this.

You might want to look into some information with respect to the external sores/bumps and how to treat in addition to the antibiotics.

Such as dilute povidone iodine on paper towls, etc.

You will have to research it. I have the information in books.
 
They gave me baytril for the RI and also to help with any bacteria in the bumps. And yes, he did show me how to administer it. They also gave me ivermectin to spray or wipe her down with. Said that will also help.
 
Reptile vets currently are using Fortaz over Baytril for respiratory issues. It's easier on the snake and more effective unless they actually did a sensitivity test and determined the RI was resistant to Fortaz.
 
Ivermectin would be used as a spray for mites. But you indicated that the vet did not notice any. Did you yourself identify mites?

It is pretty obvious if the snake does or does not have mites.

The ivermectin will not do anything for the bumps and lesions, as it is not an antibiotic. It is a cattle wormer, specifically. It can be used in some cases to attempt to kill subcutaneous worms or other worms/beasties that are not inhabiting the gastro-intestinal tract in some reptiles.

What Tim said is true, most vets will reach for ceftazidime over enrofloxicin now (baytril), but in either case a sensitivity and culture must be done to determine antibiotic resistance and susceptibility for the offending pathogen(s) and to identify what bacteria are present.

The snakes that I keep, if and when they get an R.I., have bacteria that are resistant to ceftazidime (fortaz). For 10 out of 10 cultures. Does not mean that enrofloxicin will work either. No way to know without a culture and sensitivity test.

Was a culture done? If not, you should seriously consider seeing a different veterinarian.

But you might be waiting on culture results?

You have to be careful to inject the enrofloxicin IM and not just under the skin as it can leave burns.

If you want I will look up what to do for skin lesions and bumps. Treatment.
 
Jessica29 said:
The vet said she deffinitly has an RI. He opened her mouth and could see alot of mucus and pus where the nostrils are and he said it was also inflamed. She's getting meds for that. He said he doesn't see mites so he doesn't know if that's what the bumps are from but said he will treat just incase. She's also getting antibiotics because he popped one of the bumps and it has hard pus inside. He said the bacteria from that can get into her bloodstream. A little nervous to have to inject her. Also said to keep her relatively dry until she's better.
Click to expand...

Do you know if this snake is wild caught. The bumps filled with pus sounds like a skin infection. The pus and inflammation around the mouth, nostrils is mouth rot. Add the RI to this and this sounds like a snake that was kept in filthy, wet conditions for a very long time. I don't think even a wc snake would come in in such bad condition. It had to be kept in captivity for a while in bad conditions to get like that. It is, also, pretty skinny. I don't think it had eaten for a while before it was shipped to you. I wonder if those who defended Backwater and said this could have been a mistake still would say that after seeing these pics.
 
I have to say, our hobby seems to be full of people out there that don't give a damn about the animals that their selling. I don't know if it's the pressure of turning a profit in this tough economy or just plain laziness. Either way this s*%# needs to STOP! Any person out there that calls themselves a reptile hobbyist/retailer had to start off loving reptiles. So why are people treating these animals as if they were a cheap DVD player that your ordering off of ebay. Just because you might refund the animal, doesn't make it ok that they have allowed any animal to get in this bad of a condition in the 1st place, never mind try to sell it to someone else.
If the treatment of these animals made its way out into the public, the hobby just might come to end. We need to stop trying to defend these dealers that have any signs of neglect in the way that they care for the reptiles that they sell. It is their responsibility to assure that the animal has been treated for infestations, illnesses and wounds. Not the customers.
 
This is just what the vet gave me. I'm in a pretty remote area with not alot of time off to travel to further vets (stationed on 29 Palms Marine Corp Base). I was surprised they even had a vet that could treat snakes. He could it "blister disease" but said he was going to treat for mites just incase. He didn't do any sort of culture, though I will be taking in a fecal the next time she deficates. He also did mention that she was under nourished.
 
This does need to stop but sadly I see all to often people getting into the reptile hobby because they saw a ball python or something sell for some mad money and think its easy. Then they will do what ever it takes to sell and make the easy money they have been dreaming about. I have a store by me, Guy is like 21, never seen collage but has owned 2 monitors. His dad buys him a store and he thinks he is god. He was so fail he let one of his 4 or 5 old monitors run out of the store and into a major road where is was squished. All because he was flirting. Not saying all are like this but I see more and more poping up. In my state since i got my first snake is 2010 I have had like 10-15 reptile stores open, some of which have closed, in a vary small state. I have been to almost every one and wouldnt shop at any of them becasue the way they keep there animals. Just my though.
 
Well, I looked it up real quick, just in Rossi & Rossi "What's wrong with my Snake?".

Basically you get betadine, or generic povidone iodine 10%, this is the brown surgical scrub, and dilute it to a tea like color (or perhaps 5-7 fold) with water.

Take a ventilated tub, put paper towels that have been doused in the dilute betadine, and put snakie in there for 30-60 minutes. Rinse the snake off afterward, and you can put either Silvadene (available from the vet) or polysporin with a clean q-tip on the bumps. Do this once a day. I would personally prefer to use Silvadene.

Rossi and Rossi also recommend switching to artificial turf (which I hate and have never used for snakes, although people did in the early 90s) as it will allow things to aerate. Seems like a good idea to me.

A blood python will not do well in arid conditions period, especially during this time of year with the air conditioner running.

So, while doing the above, you would want to get a small tub with a lid, that is large enough for the snake to completely hide in with a little extra room, and cut a hole in the side for the snake to go in.

Put damp sphagnum moss in the tub, so the snake has a high humidity hide, and put this partially over the undertank heater so that it is warm. Change the moss out daily, and sterilize the tub. Also, while the snake is in the betadine chamber above, sterilize the artificial turf daily. This could be done by soaking in dilute bleach solution for 10 minutes, rinsing absolutely thoroughly, and then air drying the turf out in the hot desert sun, both sides, until it is bone dry. All of this could easily be done while the snake is in the betadine chamber.

So, you will be providing aerated dry conditions for the skin lesions to heal, but also be providing a humid retreat so that the blood python will not get jacked up from low humidity.

As for the systemic antibiotic, it should attack the bacteria both in the lesions, in the mouth, and in the lungs. But, this is a major if, because there has been no culture done either for the skin lesions, the pus on the interior, or with respect to the "mouthrot" or lungs.

Too risky that the bacteria is resistant. One particular potential pathogen is Stenotropomonas maltophilia, which will eat baytril, amikacin, and any beta-lactam antibiotic (e.g. fortaz) for breakfast. This bacteria might be in our water supply here in riverside as it was cultured from one of my green tree pythons, along with Psuedomonas aerinogosa that was resistant to fortaz.

I went with a triple therapy+ supportive fluids, inadvertently, which knocked everything out relatively quickly.

Due to the risk of septicemia, your animal is in a very bad way. Period.

It could pull through, but far too risky to not know what pathogens you are dealing with, and what is the correct antibiotic(s) to deal with this.

Also, if there is mouthrot, let me know, and if you want I can tell you what to do for this in addition to the antibiotics.

I do not mess around with hydrogen peroxide or chlorhexidine for mouthrot, as both are a bad idea for reasons I will not get into. Trust me on this.

There is a mobile vet, in the palm desert area, and she does reptiles. I do not know how good she is, but if you call her she will meet. This is relatively close to 29 palms. Definitely striking distance.

If you meet with her, tell her you want a culture and sensitivity done for all affected areas (i.e. lungs, bumps, etc.) and that you want Silvadene, I am sure she will get the job done. With a shopping list, you will get exactly what you probably need. I have spoken with her before.

Her number and name is:
Susan Klages, DVM

Her website and number:
http://www.vetontherun.com/index.html
 
Forgot, the baytril might do the job, but this approach would be the same as if I myself had a bunch of antibiotics on hand and just administered one when and if an animal ever got an R.I. I could save money....

This I would never do, and is why I go to the vet, to get the culture done.

In the event that the bacteria is not resistant to ceftazidime (Fortaz), this would be a good thing, because the bumps could be considered little miniature abscesses, and most antibiotics will not penetrate a reptilian abscess. The exceptions would be chloramphenicol (which is crap) or ceftazidime.

Due to the prevalence of use, perhaps, there has been increased resistance to fortaz, but some bacteria are inherently resistant to most but not all beta-lactams (I mentioned 2 bacteria above). For some reason the Psuedomonas aerinogosa on my green tree pythons is resistant to most things with the exception of piperacillin protected with tazobactam and amikacin. So a dual therapy regimen plus fluids to avoid nephrotoxicity from the aminoglygoside (amikacin) is what I go with for severe P. aerinogosa infections, while waiting for culture results which confirm the choice of antibiotics 10 for 10.

However, if ceftazidime is efficacious against the bacteria in your snake, it should penetrate abscesses (hopefully) better than other antibiotics. At least that is what I have read.
 
Thanks for all the info. I think for right now I'll just stick with what my vet reccomend. If I don't see any improvement in a week or so I will be taking her back.
 
My heart goes out to the OP. That poor snake is in bad shape. I admire you for sticking with it and taking it to the vet, etc. Maybe in the future you may consider buying your animals from a reputable blood python breeder like Tracy Barker. There are others, also. You will always be miles ahead buying from the breeder. Nowadays, there are reputable breeders for almost any herp you can think of. Just stay away from dealers who send out poor specimens like that. Again, kudos to the OP for caring enough about this animal to try and get it cured.
 
I have two other blood pythons and an Indonesian tree boa (as well as about 20 corns and 5 balls from other places) that I bought from Ben Siegel. All are in absolute perfect health. It was my fault for not doing research on who we were buying from. Right now Luna isn't looking to good. She looks very dehydrated. I want to soak her but I'm not sure if its a good idea because of the blister disease. Any opinions on that?
 
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