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Bad Guy 4C Reptiles n cages

hermansmama

hermansmama

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I attended the All Maryland Reptile expo yesterday, July 13th, for the first time as both a guest, and a vendor. Closer to the end of the show a friend told me I had to see something disgusting, so we went to the table of 4C-Reptiles-N-Cages. What I saw wasn't good.

They had multiple species on display, including some skinks, monitors, turtles, several snakes, and a single crested gecko. At first glance, I was sure the gecko was dead. Then I noticed it was in fact breathing. The photo does NOT show how extremely skinny this gecko was in person (I asked the vendor permission to take photos and they told me to go right ahead!) The skinks had their hips and spine showing, the monitors were dehydrated and skinny, and the turtles were horribly scarred.




I heard the vendor stating to a potential customer he houses at least 3 full grown males (I THINK they were red eared sliders, I didn't take as close a look at them as I was furious from seeing the animals in the display cases) in a 20 gallon long tank, so they tend to fight with each other, and that's why they were scarred. No wonder!

I cannot imagine displaying animals in the condition his animals were in, not to mention the fact that he allowed them to get that way to begin with! And to try and SELL these animals to, in the case of new-to-reptile-customers, perhaps unsuspecting customers, is appalling! I have never seen animals at a show in as bad shape as the ones at his table. I don't even want to think about what diseases or illnesses they might have had, and what might have been transmitted to other animals at the show via indirect contact from people handling them and other animals, or simply touching his display cases, or other areas there might have been contamination.

I was hesitant to post a BOI, simply because of the backlash that often happens when one does so, but these animals were so obviously abused that I couldn't NOT post about it. I can only hope that this vendor decides to start taking better care of his animals.

I have emailed the show organizer, and have emailed the vendor himself.

-Megan Angstadt-Williams
 
Those poor animals definitely need out of that situation. I can't imagine how long a crested gecko would have to go without sustenance before even the head sinks in!
 
The monitors I can't tell if they're underfed or not - look okay, possibly drowsy. The gecko and the sandfish skink I can tell for sure are malnourished.

The skinks aren't even difficult to keep. They live in a sand substrate and you dump a few crickets on the surface. They popout every other day or at night and grab them with precision like few other lizards. I had one like 15 years ago that I kept alive for 7 years when I was a kid and I took poor care of it. It was impossible to kill. I didn't even use a UVB light. This is either evidence of: 1) fresh imports (most likely); 2) really poor/non-existent feeding schedule.
 
Crested geckos are REALLY easy to care for, and don't need to be fed on a daily basis...our geckos are fed every two or three days, and the diet is left in for a night or two then taken out. I don't even supplement mine with bugs that often...this isn't just a case of malnourishment, this is outright abuse. This gecko is either very very sick and should have been treated for whatever ailment it has, or was not fed, ever. I have geckos that go on food strikes for a couple months in the winter time, and they will only lose a few grams...their tails are still fat, you can't see their bones, and you definitely can't see their head caving in :(

I heard from a friend that this vendor has had THIN animals in the past, but nothing near as severe as this. Even if they ARE fresh imports, it shows badly on him as a "professional" to display them to the public before they are healthy and ready to sell.
 
This is absolutely horrendous. I've even had a crested gecko go for 4 weeks without eating after she was moved to another location (vet said not to worry unless she starts getting dehydrated or losing drastic amounts of weight). Even after not eating for 4 weeks, her skull never showed like that.

And those skinks!! They're just living skeletons with skin draped over them. The monitors clearly don't look good either, of course.

The worst I've seen at a show were ball pythons looking a bit dehydrated (and it was the last day of a 3 day show), but once the owner was confronted, they took the snakes off the table and were able to get them water bowls.

But THIS....there's just no excuse for them all to look that way, AND to be displayed at a show.
 
Notice the jaw bones sticking out on the crested gecko, and the eyes are so sunken in you can't see them. That animal is so so seriously dehydrated and malnourished I honestly cannot believe it was still alive. It would take MONTHS of little to no care in order to get a gecko to this poor of a state. Having these animals is wrong, putting them for sale at a show is disgusting. This gives our entire industry a black eye on top of the abuse the animals suffered. Sickening to say the least....
 
I have seen animals in poor condition at expos before but this goes above and beyond the usual horrors. Have you notified the organizer of the event? It doesn't look good on them to have vendors with blatant animal abuse spread across their tables.

To add what others have said about the crested gecko, I run a small scale gecko rescue and this is probably the thinnest crested gecko I have ever seen. One crestie was surrendered from a home where his previous owner "tossed him a couple of crickets here and there" and while underweight did not display the signs this poor creature has of its neglect.
 
All of his monitors and skinks are obviously wild caught they are nasty he probably just threw them into a box and then just went off to the show to make a quick buck
 
I have notified the organizer. I received an email response I can take a screen shot of when I get home from work. Basically he said if the vendor isn't breaking any "show rules" then he can't do anything about it. The only show rules I saw on the website are no venomous animals (per Maryland law) and any vendors with native species must have a permit (also Maryland law). He failed to mention the fact that Maryland state law also requires a health certificate from vendors for any animals coming INTO the state. Most shows accomplish this by having a vet on hand for check in who then hands out the certificates if the animals pass the health check. The organizer of this show does not offer this at the Havre de Grace show...but does at other shows he runs.
 
hermansmama said:
I have notified the organizer. I received an email response I can take a screen shot of when I get home from work. Basically he said if the vendor isn't breaking any "show rules" then he can't do anything about it.
Click to expand...

Megan, can you please post the organizer's name? To me, if he/she saw the pictures of those poor critters, a good response would be in my opinion to support your complaint and looked into what could be done.

I realize that in general probably most organizers want to do what they do, which is plan and set up a show, but to me, those pictures are pretty horrifying, and one would hope that the people who run the shows have at least some sympathy for the critters, and could try to reach out in these sorts of circumstances and offer help. I do look forward to reading what was actually said.
 
Lucille said:
Megan, can you please post the organizer's name? To me, if he/she saw the pictures of those poor critters, a good response would be in my opinion to support your complaint and looked into what could be done.

I realize that in general probably most organizers want to do what they do, which is plan and set up a show, but to me, those pictures are pretty horrifying, and one would hope that the people who run the shows have at least some sympathy for the critters, and could try to reach out in these sorts of circumstances and offer help. I do look forward to reading what was actually said.
Click to expand...

:iagree:
 
Okay, so I cropped this so it doesn't show my contacts on my chat list on the left side of the screen, as they are my personal contacts and have nothing to do with this issue...that being said, I've never done a BOI before, so I hope that is okay.

Here is my first email to Larry Kenton, organizer of the All Maryland Reptile show in Havre de Grace.
You can see at the bottom where it say 3 attachments...those are the same photos I posted here in this thread.

Then I followed up with this email, which is the one he replied to...


I have also emailed the Maryland State Department of Animal Health....here are the emails I sent them. I wasn't sure if I should mention the exact incident at first, but then decided to send the info and the photos anyways. I have not yet heard back from animal health at this point.




In addition, I have emailed the vendor (I did this when I emailed Larry for the first time), expressing my disgust at the condition the animals were in.
 
I did NOT say anything to the vendor at the show because I was upset about the situation and didn't want to cause a scene. My goal isn't to embarrass him or tick him off so that he won't listen to my concerns, but to bring up my concerns in a calm, collected manner, which is why I emailed him instead.
 
I find the show's owners response to be weird. If you run a show, you can surely ban a vendor. Pretty sure it's been done at other shows. They're taking a big risk bringing animals like that to a show. Not only does it disgust me, but I wonder if they've been starved or if they have diseases that may pass on to all the other vendor's animals. To me, it makes the owner look bad when they allow vendors to continue to bring in animals in such poor condition. I would be nervous being around animals that look like that. I'm pretty sure animal neglect is abuse which isn't legal.
 
As for Larry's quote "I don't believe you'll find any shows that actually police their vendors."...I know as a fact that this is not true. I have been to a NARBC (North American Reptile Breeders' Conference) in Anaheim, CA and have reported animals in poor condition in the past. I was able to find one of the authorities (not the owner, but someone who had helped to run the show). They followed me to the booth and spoke with the seller to get the animals off the sale floor. I went to the same booth hours later, but they had "closed up shop". However, I cannot say whether or not they were forced to leave, but I was happy to know that the person of authority did at least show concern and talked with the seller.

Now, as for at least one other show (Reptile Super Show in Pomona, CA), there were actually animal control officers that stayed throughout the show and "policed" the tables. I am unsure as to whether they were there on their own accord or if the show owner requested they be there, though.

But, Larry, you have the ability to ban people from vending at your show. Unfortunately it's clear that you simply want the booth rent and don't seem to care about the condition of the animals and/or abuse laws.
 
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