Bad Guy Kingsnake.com, Jeff Barringer

[predators]

I disagree. Those seeking to use the services of KS have contractually agreed to the TOS prior to advertising.
Courts do not often interfere in the terms of a contract especially if both parties are businesses as they are here.
The OP is not some helpless innocent, but instead was a businessman who would be expected to read and understand the contracts he signs, and adhere to their terms, and understand the consequence of violating those terms.
The court would look at the thousands of advertisers that never had a problem, they would also look at the way the terms of the TOS was violated by the OP who agreed to those TOS when purchasing the right to advertise.

The TOS spells out the consequences for breaking its terms.
The OP freely agreed to be contractually bound to those terms by his agreement with KS.
The OP is a businessman and adult, and hence is expected to read and understand what he signs.
The OP broke those terms.
The OP received the consequences he agreed to when signing up, for breaking those terms.

A court is not going to go in and disturb the agreement that two business parties made under these circumstances.

So using your logic if the terms of service said "if you violate our TOS you will instantly face be-heading" a court would have to allow it because both parties agreed?

 

[treeboa]

This circumstance is far from beheading. Ridiculous reference. It's more akin to agreeing to a payment plan on a nonrefundable deposit and losing it for not following through. He didn't follow through on following the TOS, those TOS say he would lose his money for not following them, that's what happened. Nothing illegal, nothing for the courts to do.

 

[xPantherx]

Most of you have failed to read the details I provided and simply stated your own opinions without regard to the actual text present in my correspondence with Kingsnake. So I've outlined it here, again:

"We do not give refunds for failure to read and follow our Terms of Service.
You may still post ads. You must post ads under the name the account was
purchased under as an individual. Once you have your DBA, you may post under
your business name."

There was no "fraudulent" chargeback. I went to PayPal when there was a failure to issue the service described above.

 

[treeboa]

I think we understand perfectly. They gave you a chance to provide your DBA. You didn't do it after 12 days. They terminated your account per the TOS you agreed to when you signed up. You then told Paypal they didn't provide the service you paid for and got your money back. Then you came here to whine about it even though it was your own fault for not reading the TOS when you signed up. Didn I leave anything out?

 

[Lucille]

Your chargeback was fraudulent. You could have filed a 'not as described' or 'did not receive' but apparently you filed an 'unauthorized use of card'.
You actually did get a few listings in before they caught you violating the TOS you had agreed to. You did not run to them then saying your card had an unauthorized use.

 

[coldblooded_novelties]

Not really sure why the op is so bent I see it very clear he screwed up he got a warning and screwed up again. I am very experienced with Jeff B I myself under different circumstances managed to get myself banned for about a year. I finally got a chance to see Jeff at the Daytona show plead my case and was up and running by the end of the weekend. Jeff is Chrystal clear in his TOS and very firm as he should be why the OP is crying here makes no senesce he is wrong EXPECIALLY with his bogus charge back
Frank
CBN

 

[Joe I]

Hello Kaiden. Let me clear it up for you, Jeff Barringer is an a$$hole. Some here refer to him as the Soup Nazi from the TV show Seinfeld, a True Napoleon complex. Name your cliché. Yes, posting here does some good. Just click "search" here on Fauna and type in "Jeff Barringer". You will see the many people before you that got burned by Jeff. I filed a report with the Better Business Bureau in Austin, Texas. I just wanted them to know how Jeff treats his patrons, as I myself got mistreated by Jeff B. Jeff showed his arrogance to the BBB in Austin, and didn't even respond to the Bureau as well. I know you feel as though you were mistreated, just as though many others have before you. Here is the site if you want to go and tell them your story and the way you were treated. www.austin.bbb.org I did not take the time to read your whole thread, but if you find that some people here on Fauna trying to be intimidating to you for posting this thread, ignore it. My guess is Jeff himself has several different accounts in which he has signed up for here on Fauna over the many years "posing" as someone else. Also, personal friends of his. You may notice the same people that take his side as an indicator.

I feel animals sell much faster here on Fauna Classifieds anyway!

Best wishes, Joe...

 

[Fangthane]

Also, personal friends of his. You may notice the same people that take his side as an indicator.

Oh, sweet, sweet irony. There you go, projecting your own lack of ethics and credibility onto others. If we're to use your own pathetic excuse for logic, it simply supports the idea that you, as a friend of another known Bad Guy, have zero credibility; thus, nothing you say can be taken as anything other than attempts at grubbing for special discounts. I mean, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

Out of one side of your mouth, you're saying that only those who've had direct involvement with a given thread's principals should be taken seriously; out of the other side, you're now saying that those with direct involvement are suspect. I already knew you were a conflicted individual, but thanks for going out of your way to make it even more obvious.

 

[Joe I]

Hello Dan. Your crafty attempts to turn things around just simply don't work. Some of the biggest trouble makers here on Fauna, never do any business. It's very easy when no one knows who you are, and you don't do any business to come here and ridicule people just for fun!
Once again, you pretend to know me, but I have never heard of you or done business with you. Also, your antagonizing attempts to say that I have no credibility is for what? I have dealt with and know almost every major tortoise breeder in the Country! If I had so many bad dealings with people, or I was selling sick animals, where does the repeat business come from I wonder.

I would love to know what involvement you have in the Reptile Industry???? Please let us all know.

You have Atheism as your Brand, and there happens to be a devil pictured above that, and you say I am the conflicted individual. Reality check.

Have a great day!

 

[Fangthane]

Hello Dan. Your crafty attempts to turn things around just simply don't work. Some of the biggest trouble makers here on Fauna, never do any business. It's very easy when no one knows who you are, and you don't do any business to come here and ridicule people just for fun!
Once again, you pretend to know me, but I have never heard of you or done business with you. Also, your antagonizing attempts to say that I have no credibility is for what? I have dealt with and know almost every major tortoise breeder in the Country! If I had so many bad dealings with people, or I was selling sick animals, where does the repeat business come from I wonder.

Much like every other word you've typed, your deflections and feeble attempts at misdirection are laughable. Since all the whining you can muster won't get all of this wonderful information removed, I know all I need to know about you: You've lied on numerous occasions, you've misrepresented parasite-laden tort so you could flip it out for a profit. Thanks to the BOI, people can see how the likes of you and Andrew Hermes handle themselves and what they're likely to do when something doesn't go according to plan. It's incredibly easy to come out smelling like a rose when everything goes well. It's what happens when the ball is dropped that tells us who you truly are. You and Hermes have been found lacking in moral fiber. It's great to be able to learn from the mistakes of others. Clearly, I have just enough actual experience in this "industry" to be able to examine a given situation and know who's in the wrong. In which case I have all the experience I need.

Also, I have to assume you're lying about having recovered the supposedly lost emails that were such a big part of this thread. Go ahead and prove me wrong. If you were fully in the right and they support that idea, it makes no sense not to post them up. Your pathetic little 3rd party anonymous quote about the phantom adviser just doesn't hold water.

I would love to know what involvement you have in the Reptile Industry???? Please let us all know.

All anyone need know about my involvement is that lies, misrepresentations, parasites have never been a part of it. Go ahead and look for anything to the contrary. You'll not find it. It's a bit refreshing to know that, since I haven't been figuratively pissing the bed, I don't need to worry about someone putting my yellowed sheets on display. It's a feeling that you'll never again know.

You have Atheism as your Brand, and there happens to be a devil pictured above that, and you say I am the conflicted individual. Reality check.

As I'd already pointed out in the karma I left for you: Your idiocy never ceases to amaze. Even though the devil was already explained to you, you still grasp desperately at a meaningless icon that wasn't of my choosing. Painfully stupid is no way to go through life. You should try to do something about that.

 

[Fangthane]

Also, I have to assume you're lying about having recovered the supposedly lost emails that were such a big part of this thread.

Actually, I meant THIS THREAD.

 

[WebSlave]

Warning: Are you guys going to continue this interpersonal squabble until I have to ban BOTH of you?

 

[Ameivaboy]

If I had so many bad dealings with people, or I was selling sick animals, where does the repeat business come from I wonder.

I would love to know what involvement you have in the Reptile Industry???? Please let us all know.

This will be my only post in this thread, and it has nothing to do with Jeff B. I do not know him at all and have never had any issues using Kingsnake Classifieds.

I do have some experience with Joe's business dealings along with having heard from several other business associates of mine of his not so great dealings.

Here's some emails - you can see an attempt at customer service - but if he was so confident the animal would be fine and it would be so easy to get the money back why not just take the tortoise back and just refund us ? Clearly we were not happy with the animal and neither was our customer.

We could have been exporting his tortoises this year, next year and for years to come. But I guess the $2K was worth more to him than a steady outlet for his albinos and building a long term business relationship


Whether or not the shell smoothed out over time, the issue is how the animal looks at the time it was received. Instructions were given to Joe that split/double/extra scutes were not acceptable - so if that wasn't acceptable why would a shell that looks like this ones be OK?

He really should have sent pictures asking for approval of that particular animal but if he did that, then we would have had the opportunity to decline it as well.

When someone sends you $20K, you should take care of that person - and not say things like

This is an issue of your customer being too picky

A refund is not in order because the animal is 100% healthy with perfect scutes, and the issue is merely patience.

Emails read from bottom to top, the only editing was someemail addresses removed.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: JWI <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 3:33 PM
Subject: Hello Kevin...
To: Kevin Luzzi <[email protected]>


Hello Kevin. I see you guys are still stressing over this. I do not have any other animals to send you or I would immediately send one to you. I sold you (10) healthy (perfect scute) animals as discussed and promised. There is absolutely no health related issue with this animal that you keep talking about. All the animals I sent had hard shells, active, alert, and eating. If I thought there was a defect in this animal, I would not have let it go. I have worked with Sulcata for the past 15 years... I had explained in the previous email, that the wrinkles would stretch out in time and would dissipate as the animal goes into a growth spurt. This is from watching it happen time and time again....

Its always best to ask the opinion of someone who has raised, bred, and witnessed animals develop rather than outsiders with little to no knowledge. Again, I would replace it to remedy the situation if I had another animal to replace it with. But, unfortunately, I do not. A refund is not in order because the animal is 100% healthy with perfect scutes, and the issue is merely patience. I will have new babies in the fall, and would gladly exchange it then. But, by then of course, the animal you are talking about would have outgrown those little wrinkles and be much larger. Please also note, that I was suppose to send you guys hatchlings. Instead, I gave you some very well started much larger animals that I could have sold for a lot more money, but was committed to honoring our deal.

Or..... What I can do to help out is .... If you like, please send me some pics of the animal by herself, and I will post them for a wholesale discount to the public of $2000(like you paid) on KS. This will help you get your $2K, and you won't have to hear about it with you Hong Kong buyers. Win/Win. Someone would buy it for sure, as there are none for sale anywhere! So, rest a sure your money is safe! Since you are convinced it is a defect (I, disagree 150%) you could also sell it locally in CA to recover (2000 to $2250). I will also stand by that animal for your customers, and if the shell does not straighten out later, I will gladly exchange it!! Again, just trying to come up with a happy medium for both of us.

If I go to sell it again, I will just say.... ("Last baby Albino!!!! discounted price! first person with $2000-gets her....")

I have no problem in being there for you guys before and after the sale, but like dealing fairly...

Thanks, Joe....


PS.- This is an issue of your customer being too picky. If you wish, I will assist help get your $2K back, again won't be a problem.... Please let me know. Thanks.




On 4/24/2012 1:38 PM, Kevin Luzzi wrote:
Hi Joe,

Please see the emails below - these are from our original customers who sent us to you in the first place.

Also included is an email from our Vet regarding it.

We want to exchange for a perfect shell/scute animal - or if you do not have, then a refund on this one as it is not sellable in our markets.

Much appreciated


--
Best regards,
Kevin Luzzi
WWPS Inc.




From:
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:02 PM
To:
Cc: [email protected];
Subject: FW: Albino Sulcata Pictures and Trip to China

Hi Dave and Kevin

Pls see comment from my partner below, I think we should swap for another perfect one. Thank you!




From:
To:
Subject: Re: Albino Sulcata Pictures and Trip to China
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:15:46 +0800

the shell so ugly.....cannot sell out.....pls change the other one which is perfect


From:
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 4:36 AM
To: Kevin Luzzi
Cc: David Breen Sr - WWPS; Tom Hunter
Subject: Re: Albino Sulcata Pictures

Hi all,
Not a usual shell. If "normal", why not in others?
No way I can say if will improve or not.
Sometimes secondary to low humidity as the shell developed.
Personally at that price@ I would not risk it!











On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 7:45 AM, JWI <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello Kevin. Good morning. I am glad to hear that you received the animals and that all are doing well. Regarding the animal in question, remember these are still little babies and those little wrinkles will smooth out over time as the animal grows 100%. In fact, you will show a noticeable difference between now and when the Cities paperwork arrives in a couple of months. Some of the larger babies I sent you looked the same and have now have smooth shells. This is not a defect, as I have raised many of the albino and normal babies over the years and have seen that you will not be able to tell the difference between any of them as they get bigger. Some have wrinkles, some do not. But in the end they all go to a smooth shell. This particular animal in question has no extra scutes, which was the main concern, as I had a bigger animal to send you guys, but it was turned down because of the extra scutes.

Please be sure to soak these babies after there flight yesterday. About 15 minutes in warm water would do. Rest a sure all the animals are healthy, eating, alert, and all have hard shells they way they are suppose to. You will have no issues with them. Also, please do give them Vitamin D "sunlight" for portions of the day. They tear up the Mazuri Tortoise Diet as well. Please let me know if you have any questions regarding their care. I will always be here for your guys regarding husbandry and care when ever you have any questions. All my best, Joe....



On 4/19/2012 2:26 AM, Kevin Luzzi wrote:
Hi Joe,

My Name is Kevin and I handle the livestock at Wonderful World.

I picked up the tortoises from the airport and upon inspection one stood out immediatly.

Please see the attached photos.

This is not a perfect shelled tortoise and we can not sell this animal to our customers.

We need a replacement or a refund on this particular specimen.

Thanks!!

--
Best regards,
Kevin Luzzi
WWPS Inc.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

This will be my only post in this thread, and it has nothing to do with Jeff B. I do not know him at all and have never had any issues using Kingsnake Classifieds.

I do have some experience with Joe's business dealings along with having heard from several other business associates of mine of his not so great dealings.

Warning: This thead is about Kingsnake.com/Jeff B, and needs to stay on topic. I suggest you repost this info in a thread about Joe.

 

[Ameivaboy]

Warning: This thead is about Kingsnake.com/Jeff B, and needs to stay on topic. I suggest you repost this info in a thread about Joe.

This will be my only post in this thread

Oh April, you've made me a liar

So back to the topic on hand of Joe and Kingsnake.

If you read the emails I posted you can see where Joe offered to break some of the Kingsnake.com's TOS

Maybe that's more relevant to your approval?

You may only post advertisements for yourself or your business, depending on your account registration.

You may NOT post advertisements for other individuals, regardless of whether they are friends, relatives or family members

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

I have only been a customer of Kingsnake for a short while, but it has been worth it many, many, many times over for around the price of a meal at one of my regular haunts.

I prefer the user interface / control panel of Fauna and prefer Fauna in general for a variety of reasons, but I had some specialty offerings that I felt needed additional exposure. While some buying audiences check both Fauna and KS, some naturally prefer one or the other, and it made sense to me to cater to both groups of potential customers. I was soon thereafter contacted by one of their representatives because I had mentioned a shipping facilitation service and they felt that this was giving free advertising, which is a free ride for said company, so I was politely asked to make edits. I apologized for my mistake and then proceeded to delete and repost my ads in slightly streamlined -and fully compliant- fashion. All has been well since and I have had no other issues by my own hand or otherwise. I appreciate it as being what it is. If I had a problem with it, I would simply cease using it as a conduit for listing and selling my animals. If I violated the TOS, was made aware of it, and then failed to correct it to satisfaction, I would not be surprised by a forfeiture of what I paid in agreement from the outset with their terms. Of course, if it is my fault and within my power to correct, I would simply due to so and make a mental note of how to navigate the context going forward. That seems pretty simple to me.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Ugh.

"due to so" should read "do so"

For shame.

 

[Joe I]

Hello Kevin. This is the first time, and news to me your were upset. I specifically remember having our last conversation with you where I called you personally stating that I would replace that animal for you with my next clutch of albinos which was 3 months away at that time. I never heard back from you. So, I figured we were good. The shells do straighten out. If you still have it, I will gladly replace it with one of this year's babies. Call me. I would appreciate a little better communication next time.

 

[treeboa]

I have only been a customer of Kingsnake for a short while, but it has been worth it many, many, many times over for around the price of a meal at one of my regular haunts.

I prefer the user interface / control panel of Fauna and prefer Fauna in general for a variety of reasons, but I had some specialty offerings that I felt needed additional exposure. While some buying audiences check both Fauna and KS, some naturally prefer one or the other, and it made sense to me to cater to both groups of potential customers. I was soon thereafter contacted by one of their representatives because I had mentioned a shipping facilitation service and they felt that this was giving free advertising, which is a free ride for said company, so I was politely asked to make edits. I apologized for my mistake and then proceeded to delete and repost my ads in slightly streamlined -and fully compliant- fashion. All has been well since and I have had no other issues by my own hand or otherwise. I appreciate it as being what it is. If I had a problem with it, I would simply cease using it as a conduit for listing and selling my animals. If I violated the TOS, was made aware of it, and then failed to correct it to satisfaction, I would not be surprised by a forfeiture of what I paid in agreement from the outset with their terms. Of course, if it is my fault and within my power to correct, I would simply due to so and make a mental note of how to navigate the context going forward. That seems pretty simple to me.

Nice post Nickolas! This is exactly how I feel about the whole thing and exactly how I operate. I get more and more business all the time from Fauna and this community really supports each other. You really can't ignore Kingsnake, though. I had the same experience with KS over the shipping company thing. I edited my ads. End of story. No big deal. I have butted heads with the mods at Kingsnake and Jeff himself over some forum stuff, which is a lot of the reason the forums over there are all but dead I feel. That's another story though.