Good Guy Good Guy* Andrew Hermes of Arizona Tortoise Compound

[Patrick@ColorfulCreatures]

Or Andrew knew that he shipped a radiated in a crap tastic inappropriate manner and wasn't the least bit surprised it died, which is far more likely.


Think about it. An honest seller? Yeah, send them pics of the dead tort-along with today's newspaper to prove the date (or whatever) and then the honest seller refunds without question. It's in his TOS HE GUARANTEES LIVE ARRIVAL.

However, Andrew never offered a refund if the buyer showed him the dead radiated. All Andrew did was lie and LIVE UP TO BEING A BAD GUY SCUMBAG.

And really? Can you even remotely call the guy a decent person if he flipping ships an animal that can void a good amount in a plain unsealed cardboard box??? Who does that?

Too bad he was too cheap to do the right thing and spent the extra $9 on a one piece styrofoam lined box. I KNOW THE RADIATED THAT DIED BECAUSE HE DIDNT WOULD HAVE WANTED IT.

He's claiming to have shipped in a 12x12x10 insulated box so that would be proper shipping methods. Also for a refund that large, I'd require a lot more than just some pics before I did anything about it. What I think is being overlooked is that the box may have come open or whatever even with best packing. These shipping companies aren't always exactly gentle with packages. There was also a carrier delay which voids just about every major companies live arrival guarantee.

 

[Lucille]

True enough, there were mistakes made by both parties in this transaction, but virtually every seller asks for proof of a DOA. Without proof, no one would in this business would refund.

I agree. To maintain credibility, pix should be posted. It is not after all a big deal to do so, and neither party comes across as so naive and innocent that they would not realize that pix need to be produced.

 

[Magic]

He didn't ship it in an "appropriate manner" placing sheets of foam inside a box won't do a darn thing for a tort or turtle that voids during shipping. Andrew must be halfway aquatinted with turtle pee, once should think.

Sheets of foam (whether they be taped together or not) are going to leak. And that's what happened. The box completely fell apart. Now who's fault is that?? Andrews. If he would have used a solid styro liner. But he didn't. And now he won't make good on his errors.

 

[Magic]

Aquatinted? Darn auto correct.

Acquainted. Andrew of ATC should know how much a tort can void. And what that mess can do to cardboard.

 

[Patrick@ColorfulCreatures]

I agree. To maintain credibility, pix should be posted. It is not after all a big deal to do so, and neither party comes across as so naive and innocent that they would not realize that pix need to be produced.

That's really all I'm saying. There really hasn't been any proof of anything by the op as to poor packaging or even a dead tortoise. What we have is a few armatures that are making statements about circumstances that neither party of this transaction has substantiated.

 

[Fangthane]

That's really all I'm saying. There really hasn't been any proof of anything by the op as to poor packaging or even a dead tortoise. What we have is a few armatures that are making statements about circumstances that neither party of this transaction has substantiated.

... I do not know who is responsible for this, either him for packaging this beautiful animal inappropriately or UPS. I have been miserable about this since the day it happened. I notified Mr. Hermes immediately and sent pictures....

The proof was sent immediately. ATC never made it a point of contention whether "his" tortoise actually died. You're apparently disputing something that he chose not to. If there's a glaring lack of proof to claims, it seems to rest solely on ATC's side of the fence.

The tortoise was shipped from the Arizona Tortoise Compound. I was not aware of a third party involvement until I notified Andrew that the tortoise arrived dead.

...Second, this is the first time I have been made aware that the tortoise I shipped had died...

ATC sure seems to wait for the most convenient times to give crucial information. He didn't bother to play the "your tortoise died, too" card until 4/15. Shortly after Erik posted his BOI thread. Can you honestly say that those don't reek of extremely timely and self-serving rationalizations, that likely have no basis in reality?

There was also a carrier delay which voids just about every major companies live arrival guarantee.

Not among anyone I'd consider reputable. Apparently, I'm not alone in my view on the subject.

 

[Patrick@ColorfulCreatures]

The proof was sent immediately. ATC never made it a point of contention whether "his" tortoise actually died. You're apparently disputing something that he chose not to. If there's a glaring lack of proof to claims, it seems to rest solely on ATC's side of the fence.


ATC sure seems to wait for the most convenient times to give crucial information. He didn't bother to play the "your tortoise died, too" card until 4/15. Shortly after Erik posted his BOI thread. Can you honestly say that those don't reek of extremely timely and self-serving rationalizations, that likely have no basis in reality?

Not among anyone I'd consider reputable. Apparently, I'm not alone in my view on the subject.

Okay the op is claiming to have sent pics, I was asking if this was indeed so. I want to see pics of the packaging. Also you don't deal with anyone then cause that virtually everyone's TOS on every website in this industry

 

[Lucille]

That's really all I'm saying. There really hasn't been any proof of anything by the op as to poor packaging or even a dead tortoise. What we have is a few armatures that are making statements about circumstances that neither party of this transaction has substantiated.

An armature is a piece of electrical equipment.

While I agree the pictures should be posted, those speaking to the situation presented have done so in a professional manner and have made excellent points IMHO.

 

[treeboa]

True enough, there were mistakes made by both parties in this transaction, but virtually every seller asks for proof of a DOA. Without proof, no one would in this business would refund.

Andrew never disputed the tortoise he sent Eric was dead on arrival. He's never used that as one of his excuses. He hasn't actually come out and said it, but I think Eric did provide UPS proof of the plastic bag and dead animal. I think that's why it hasn't been disuted by Andrew. Andrew however said The tortoise Eric sent was dead only AFTER Eric wanted the animal and his money back. If you read Andrews latest description of events he now says "It's not my animal and money to return." Seems the tort IS alive to me. When asked about the discrepancy Andrew has avoided the question. I'm sorry the only mistake I see Eric making was not driving over 300 miles to UPS to pick up a dead in the bag animal.

 

[treeboa]

By the way I started following ATC on social media long before Eric's experience and I liked them, too. But it now seems he's all over Facebook especially to get his followers to cheerlead for him instead of paying the $2000+ he owes Eric. If he doesn't want the hit to his rep, he should bite the bullet and pay Eric.

 

[Magic]

Also you don't deal with anyone then cause that virtually everyone's TOS on every website in this industry

This BAD GUY thread is about Andrew of ATC and his inability to properly package a radiated tortoise, which then died directly due to Andrew's negligence.

Andrew guaranteed live arrival of the tort. He then became slime when he refused to accept any responsibility for his errors, lied, and is now doing this stupid circus dance. ANDREW KILLED THAT RADIATED.

He packed and shipped it UPS. He did. So it doesn't matter if the tort was his neighbors, or that he decided after the fact that maybe shipping UPS wasn't the brightest. HE PACKED THE TORT, AND SHIPPED IT OFF IN AN UNACCEPTABLE CONTAINER. No one else is to blame.




And for the record, I must not buy from "anybody" then either, because I demand (and get!) a live arrival guarantee. I guess the $8,750 worth of animals we've purchased this year alone must have come from really scarce sellers? NOT.

 

[treeboa]

It amazes me that some people just can't make the connect between the delay and the box being broken open. Maybe these people also suspect 1+1 =3 or 6 or 1,000?

 

[Patrick@ColorfulCreatures]

This BAD GUY thread is about Andrew of ATC and his inability to properly package a radiated tortoise, which then died directly due to Andrew's negligence.

Andrew guaranteed live arrival of the tort. He then became slime when he refused to accept any responsibility for his errors, lied, and is now doing this stupid circus dance. ANDREW KILLED THAT RADIATED.

He packed and shipped it UPS. He did. So it doesn't matter if the tort was his neighbors, or that he decided after the fact that maybe shipping UPS wasn't the brightest. HE PACKED THE TORT, AND SHIPPED IT OFF IN AN UNACCEPTABLE CONTAINER. No one else is to blame.




And for the record, I must not buy from "anybody" then either, because I demand (and get!) a live arrival guarantee. I guess the $8,750 worth of animals we've purchased this year alone must have come from really scarce sellers? NOT.

Who were these sellers? Did any of them die due to a carrier delay? Also if he did in fact use an insulated box which he claims, then he did pack properly.

 

[treeboa]

No he didn't use a proper box. If sending an animal that can urinate copious amounts you need to use a cooler-like one piece insulate box not loose pieces of insulation. As a long time tortoise guy he should have known that. If a box is properly packed a delay should make no difference. I've heard of animals being delayed over weekends that arrived fine. One day delay should not have killed a healthy tort inproper packaging.

 

[Boa_Morphs82]

Who were these sellers? Did any of them die due to a carrier delay? Also if he did in fact use an insulated box which he claims, then he did pack properly.

The tortoise was improperly packaged. I have had carrier delays of 2 days and because the animal was properly packaged arrived alive and well. Also carrier delay or not I still guarantee live arrival. I shipped an animal to a purchaser that had an 8 hour delay in shipping, after making sure the animal arrived alive and well and there was no issues due to the heat that day I took it upon myself to refund that buyers shipping charges without the buyers knowledge, sure I was out the 40 something dollars, but hey that's what a reputable breeder does for their customer. Hell I had a buyer contact me 8+ months after he received his animal and stated it failed to thrive, without proof of such a thing i sent him a replacement animal at no charge only requested he pay shipping.

 

[hhmoore]

As far as I'm concerned, live arrival guarantees should not be subject to any conditions outside the control of the customer. If the customer misses a delivery attempt, or leaves the package sitting at the hub for an extended period - that's their fault, they lose. There is no reason that a customer should lose his/her money for something that is the seller's fault, or the fault of the shipping company. When a customer pays a seller for a healthy, living animal...that's what should be found in the box.

I remember Andrew commenting on UPS insurance, and animals not being covered. That's pretty old news, and you aren't new to this game; if you really didn't know that, you made no effort to find out.

And, with all respect, Andrew, my last post in one of "your" threads was acknowledging your statement that you had dealt with the issue & asking for clarification of how things had been resolved. I went back and saw that an offer had been made, but had the impression that the buyer deemed it unacceptable. I think the offer was a great gesture; but I also understand why the customer doesn't want to be forced to "do business" with you over an extended period to collect this debt. Of course, I don't even know if that was what you meant when you said you'd settled it...if there was something more, I'm sure I'm not the only one that would appreciate understanding how you've addressed this.

 

[Magic]

Has ATC remedied sending of dead tortoises yet??