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Bad Guy sandboamorph.com

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giejack

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I would just like to put it out there that sandboa morphs is definitely a bad guy to buy off SandBoaMorphs.com. I bought a pair of nuclear meltdown Kenyan sand boas from him. I got them up to breeding size this year and breed them. should have got a litter of all nuclear meltdowns. nuclear meltdown is a line breed trait. when I got babies from them I got some normal anery and albinos. so this tells me that they are not pure line breed nuclear meltdowns. they were nuclear meltdown cross at best. this is not what I paid for. sent him several message and got this reply

Hey Jack,

It appears that there is some het snows floating around in the nuclear line. Its not surprising since it is just a linebred trait.

To my knowledge, you are the first person to ever create nuclear meltdown anerys/albinos/snows.

If you go to forums to discuss or BOI, or where ever, the nuclear lines I have came from Chuck at Saving Grace, Jeff Holloway at Holloway Herps and Scott Miller. Maybe they have had the same experiences.

Sorry I can't be more help.

Congratulations on the amazing litter!

Thank you for contacting us!



SandBoaMorphs.com

if anyone needs more info I have a few more emails I can post
 
I'll preface my remarks by noting that don't know much about sand boas...
That said, when dealing with line bred animals, people outcross for many reasons - ie: to see if lines are compatible, to introduce the trait to other morphs, and simply to improve the strength of the line - so the idea of "pure" isn't logical, especially with a trait that starts with a limited base & is produced by repeatedly breeding animals with similar features.
I don't know what the nuclear meltdown phase is - but it looks like a red/orange phase of normal...which, to me, as an outsider, makes sense because it was labeled as a line bred trait. As such, it isn't much of a stretch to understand why anery and albino babies from such a pairing would be "normal" (vs "nuclear meltdown" looking). Anery is an absence of red - if you combine the two, the recessive trait that removes the red is going to win over the line bred trait that shows it. Albinism works a bit differently, because there are reds/oranges in amelanistic animals (of some species). Because the absence of melanin doesn't affect the production of other pigments, albinos (again, of some species) show yellows and reds - but the appearance of the animals can be shifted by how the pigments combine, when the melanin is gone.

The response of the seller was congratulatory...and didn't imply that it was in response to a complaint. Was he aware that you were unhappy? Have you made him aware of this thread?
 
hearing this about sandboamorph.com doesn't surprise me. they have misrepresented animals in the past and are known for selling snakes that are only feeding on live with out telling the customer. a major problem if you can't get live feeders.
 
11/28, 1:03pm





Jack Flynn




this guy just keeps trying to blame others. there is no one else at fault for his breeding practices. here is a few more emails between me and him. and once again he tells me about another breed. its his mistake and no one elses

thOn Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 11:02 PM, jack flynn wrote

so in other words you don't stand behind the breeding of your snake and pass blame to others. they were bought as pure line breed nuclear meltdowns and that is not what they are.

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:12 AM, SandBoaMorphs.com wrote:


Roy Stockwell of Canada is the creator of the nuclear line. He spent 25 plus years crossing the best color to the best color. Chuck Glut of Saving Grace imported the first nuclears into the US. He then sold 'nuclears' to the rest of the sand boa community. I didn't produce the line, nor do I see how it makes them any less of a nuclear meltdown. It appears there was hets in the nuclears which isn't uncommon in linebred morphs in the reptile world.

You probably produced a couple first time morphs, I'd be excited.

Thank you for contacting us!

SandBoaMorphs.com
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 11:23 PM, jack flynn wrote:

that's is not how line breeding works. if i breed a Dodoma to a snow. I can no longer sell them as Dodoma. they are Dodoma crosses, samething applies with the nuclear meltdowns. At no time did you tell me that they are crosses. and I have seen on your website you are now listing nuclears crosses same with your dodomas crosses.




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...
 
giejack said:
That's is not how line breeding works. if i breed a Dodoma to a snow. I can no longer sell them as Dodoma. they are Dodoma crosses, samething applies with the nuclear meltdowns. At no time did you tell me that they are crosses. and I have seen on your website you are now listing nuclears crosses same with your dodomas crosses.
...
Click to expand...

Dodoma are a locale, not a morph, so your argument is flawed.

A line-bred trait is not a morph per say either, not like one thinks as a morph. It is not a dominate or co-dom or recessive gene, it is an inheritable trait like CBLT in BCIs. As such, there is no guaranty that all the offspring will display said trait.
 
my argument is not flawed and I know that Dodoma is a locale. my point is that if you breed a Dodoma to anything other than a Dodoma you have to sell them as a cross. the same would apply to nuclears and nuclear meltdowns. i did not buy them as crosses. was told that they were line breed and was charged the price of a line breed animal.
 
If you had "pure" line bred meltdowns, you still wouldn't get all meltdowns. The original animals could have been het anery/albino etc. Line bred doesn't exclude adding new blood.
You don't appear to understand the trait you are complaining about.
 
i understand the trait. i wouldn't expect you to agree with what im saying because you are friends with sbm. i have talked to many sand boa breeders and they all agree with me that i did not get what i ordered.
 
Snake-Queen said:
Dodoma are a locale, not a morph, so your argument is flawed.

A line-bred trait is not a morph per say either, not like one thinks as a morph. It is not a dominate or co-dom or recessive gene, it is an inheritable trait like CBLT in BCIs. As such, there is no guaranty that all the offspring will display said trait.
Click to expand...

He did not say a Dodoma is a morph. He is referring to truth in labeling. Accuracy. In this case, his essential complaint is about an inaccurate label. He thought he was sold X because he said it was sold to him under a label of X. Instead, he discovered that he had received a fractional percentage (or dilution) of X. If his original description is accurate, he paid for X because it was labeled as X and what he received ended up being something not 100% of the equivalent identity of X for which he had entered into the transaction in the first place.

You are utilizing a logical fallacy with your dissection and refutation of something he did not say in the passage you quoted. I am not sure why.
 
thank you nick glad you understand the issue I have with the snakes that I got. I paid 400 for the pair, they should have been sold at 150-200 for the pair.
 
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