Bad Guy Bad Experience with Carson Phelps of Herps Etc

[Robert Walker]

You don't know that any more than I know that there was.
All Carson's refusal to provide "proof" means is that he doesn't feel the need to justify himself to strangers on the internet who want to believe the worst about him.

In one breath you say that "we" can't know what is going on, but in the next breath you magically know what Carson's intentions were for not providing proof.

You can't have it both ways, unless you have insider information on the situation. Do you have insider info to back up your claim what Carson's actions mean? If you do you perhaps you can explain his actions for not refunding the OPs money back when the deal originally went south?

 

[Chris Kennard]

Chris, that's the point. You don't know that any more than I know that there was. I could give you absolutely no information whatsoever on the person I got my first two ball pythons from aside from his name and where he was from. I don't have his phone number anymore. I don't have his address. His Facebook profile has been deleted. I've tried to find him again because he had wonderful animals, but I can't. That doesn't mean that he doesn't exist.
All Carson's refusal to provide "proof" means is that he doesn't feel the need to justify himself to strangers on the internet who want to believe the worst about him.

No, that's not the point. He could have posted proof. He did not. Since he is lurking below while you go to bat for him, perhaps he owes you at least the courtesy of answering questions he would not answer to us "strangers". What is hid lawyer's name who supposrdly sent the letter to "Steve Miles" and what address was it sent to? Who is his "buddy" who was breeding the animals in question and where does he live? The lawyer will have documents and he could also post a copy of the police report. For starters.

 

[Parysa]

Hhmoore, as far as people not claiming malicious intent:

In my opinion, giving someone back "their" money after three years is not taking care of their customer, it is simply an act of self preservation, public relationship management & damage control caused by the affects of the BOI.

This is not a shining moment of customer service, this is only a response of "oh crap, now everyone else sees what I have done".

Along with a few more implying that he was deliberately wronging the OP.

And to whoever has an issue with me "judging" the board, here's why.

Insults and name calling is an indication you have no logical argument, and are left with nothing but emotional appeal. Funny, I haven't seen Chris or anyone else asking questions do that. Just people defending the seller...

In the quotes braincell. What is your attorney's name that sent a letter to Steve? What adress was it sent to? What are the contact numbers for Steve? If you don't know, your lawyer will have records. I'll call him for you if you'd like. I know how busy you are.

Lol. You're too much.[\b] Don't skip posts 129 and 130.

Try not to be elusive and please focus. You did not come close to answering the question. I'll dumb down a hair.[\b] What made you realize it was actually 22 months, which is still inaccurate?

Lol. How old are you?[\b] Forget it Carson. Your antics are here for all to view. You should be ashamed. Your future in the herp community will be seriously questionable. Perhaps non existant before long. Take care and good luck.

Okay. I'll play your suffocating silly game.[\b] The op said you used the EXCUSE that Steve lost a set of eggs THE NEXT YEAR. You said his phones were shut off after a few months. How did you know about the eggs lost due to a hurricane if by your own admission he could not be contacted by you and didn't even live at the location you supposedly sent local police to. You also stated you got a call about some scaleless corns. How did that come about? How did he get your number? For starters. Consult your coaches if you will. Take your time.[\b]

There are more, but I didn't feel like going back through the entire thread.
Chris has expressed nothing but contempt, insults, and sarcasm throughout and none of the regular posters on here had one thing to say about it. He judged and condemned Carson based on one person's complaint without any evidence or proof and Carson's inability to properly express himself through writing. Everybody can see that he has a hard time writing. He has given people the opportunity to talk to him one-on-one through a medium where he can better express himself and explain the situation and, what, one person took him up on it? The one person who talked directly to him about it felt his explanation was satisfactory but even then, nobody else even tried. You guys just continued to lambast him like bullies on a playground. Dollars to doughnuts he's dyslexic (I have three sisters with it and recognize the writing style) and yet because he can't write explanations well enough to suit you pompous, arrogant, self-appointed judges, you're going to do your best to ruin his reputation, business, and livelihood over ONE deal that went bad that you won't even give him a chance to explain in a way that he can do? Give me all the negative reputation you want. You may do some good things, but how many businesses have been ruined over threads like these where there's no proof and it's one person's word against the other's?

 

[Lucille]

First off, who are you that you are deserving of such respect?

Who am I? I'm just like anyone else here on the BOI who wants safe transactions in the reptile industry. I've told my story several times of the mail order dead anole and the ensuing struggles my Dad went through to do something about it when I was a very young person.

While Carson may simply, as you are trying to assert, not wish to disclose information pertaining to the transaction 'because he does not feel the need to justify himself', it is just as possible that there is in fact no Steve Miles.

how many businesses have been ruined over threads like these where there's no proof and it's one person's word against the other's?

Conversely, how many have been saved from a scam by these threads?
People read the experiences of others here, if a visitor wants to believe the mystery Steve Miles it is up to them, if they decide to be careful with their money because a seller 'does not feel the need to justify' that is up to them as well.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Hhmoore, as far as people not claiming malicious intent:

Along with a few more implying that he was deliberately wronging the OP.

And to whoever has an issue with me "judging" the board, here's why.











There are more, but I didn't feel like going back through the entire thread.
Chris has expressed nothing but contempt, insults, and sarcasm throughout and none of the regular posters on here had one thing to say about it. He judged and condemned Carson based on one person's complaint without any evidence or proof and Carson's inability to properly express himself through writing. Everybody can see that he has a hard time writing. He has given people the opportunity to talk to him one-on-one through a medium where he can better express himself and explain the situation and, what, one person took him up on it? The one person who talked directly to him about it felt his explanation was satisfactory but even then, nobody else even tried. You guys just continued to lambast him like bullies on a playground. Dollars to doughnuts he's dyslexic (I have three sisters with it and recognize the writing style) and yet because he can't write explanations well enough to suit you pompous, arrogant, self-appointed judges, you're going to do your best to ruin his reputation, business, and livelihood over ONE deal that went bad that you won't even give him a chance to explain in a way that he can do? Give me all the negative reputation you want. You may do some good things, but how many businesses have been ruined over threads like these where there's no proof and it's one person's word against the other's?

First of all, I did not condemn him, he did that all by his lonesome. If my seemingly abrasive posts are the only resort he has as his defense, that's dad and desperate. He already mentioned putting his business on hold to answer my questions, which he didn't. How on earth eould he find time to talk one on one with so many people here? That's not how the BOIworks. Sorry.

 

[Parysa]

And if they choose not to spend money, that's up to them. But if you're going to put yourself in the position of judge and jury, then you have a responsibility to the community you claim to be trying to protect to be impartial. Carson is a part of this community as well and doesn't deserve to be condemned and his business ruined because he made a bad decision in ONE transaction unless it can actually be shown with proof that he was maliciously and deliberately doing it and eventually one of you is going to tear down the wrong innocent person, destroy their business and their reputation, and have a libel suit on your hands if you're not careful.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Some of this discussion is starting to veer off topic, the general discussion of how the BOI is used would be better suited in the feedback forum:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=44

for instance, here's a thread you may find relevant:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327820&highlight=bullies

 

[Chris Kennard]

And if they choose not to spend money, that's up to them. But if you're going to put yourself in the position of judge and jury, then you have a responsibility to the community you claim to be trying to protect to be impartial. Carson is a part of this community as well and doesn't deserve to be condemned and his business ruined because he made a bad decision in ONE transaction unless it can actually be shown with proof that he was maliciously and deliberately doing it and eventually one of you is going to tear down the wrong innocent person, destroy their business and their reputation, and have a libel suit on your hands if you're not careful.

Will he be using the same lawyer that sent "Steve Miles" the letter? Sue me.

 

[Lucille]

Carson is a part of this community as well and doesn't deserve to be condemned and his business ruined because he made a bad decision in ONE transaction unless it can actually be shown with proof that he was maliciously and deliberately doing it and eventually one of you is going to tear down the wrong innocent person, destroy their business and their reputation, and have a libel suit on your hands if you're not careful.

The BOI works by having people state their experiences with a buyer or seller, and other community members ask questions and contribute opinions. For many BOIs, the truth comes out in the wash and those who read the BOI have information upon which to base future transactions.

Paige, writing a truthful account of an experience, asking questions, having an opinion, none of those are subject to libel.

 

[Robert Walker]

because he can't write explanations well enough to suit you pompous, arrogant, self-appointed judges, you're going to do your best to ruin his reputation, business, and livelihood over ONE deal that went bad that you won't even give him a chance to explain in a way that he can do?

No one is asking for a scholarly dissertation from Carson. This thread wasn't started over bad grammar. Like you yourself said, the thread was started over a deal that went bad, period.

Paige, please explain to us why Carson refused to simply refund the OPs money 3 years ago? You avoided the question before, so I'm asking again.

 

[Lucille]

Sorry April, I did not see your post as I was writing.

 

[SofaKing]

Libel suit?! lmao, I love how people always through that around! Before you even mention that, look it up and read the explanation of it.

Carson himself admitted what happened, that's the proof!

How hard is it for you to " Understand " it took him about 2yrs to refund the money. What planet are you from that allows that as acceptable business practice.

You come on here blasting away with your mis-informed, thoughtless rumblings about absolutely nothing. Stop repeating yourself, make an effort and think before you type, and come up with something witty, not the same regurgitation.

 

[DavidBeard]

I love how you're lambasting us for "making assumptions/accusations" when you're playing the role of Arm-Chair Psychologist and blaming Carson's customer service woes on phantom Dyslexia lol. What a wonderful fantasy world you must live in.

 

[Parysa]

Carson already answered the question of why he didn't just send money back. Guy asked for reptiles, not money, and agreed to snakes that hadn't even been bred yet. I don't know what kind of "fantasy world" it takes to think that there's any type of guarantee when you're agreeing to take animals that haven't been conceived. Things happen. Animals die, animals don't breed, females lay slugs, incubators fail, clutches end up being all normals, animals get sick, babies don't always get started. There are zero guarantees when you're discussing future animals that don't exist yet. From the sound of it, Guy accepted that risk at first, but when it actually happened, he started getting upset. Carson did what he could to fix it, came up with an acceptable agreement, and then didn't answer his phone for two days and Guy panicked and came here rather than having some patience. I don't know about you, but I don't always have my phone on me. That doesn't mean I'm ducking calls, just that I have a life outside of my phone and the internet.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Carson already answered the question of why he didn't just send money back. Guy asked for reptiles, not money, and agreed to snakes that hadn't even been bred yet. I don't know what kind of "fantasy world" it takes to think that there's any type of guarantee when you're agreeing to take animals that haven't been conceived. Things happen. Animals die, animals don't breed, females lay slugs, incubators fail, clutches end up being all normals, animals get sick, babies don't always get started. There are zero guarantees when you're discussing future animals that don't exist yet. From the sound of it, Guy accepted that risk at first, but when it actually happened, he started getting upset. Carson did what he could to fix it, came up with an acceptable agreement, and then didn't answer his phone for two days and Guy panicked and came here rather than having some patience. I don't know about you, but I don't always have my phone on me. That doesn't mean I'm ducking calls, just that I have a life outside of my phone and the internet.

I missed the post where Guy "accepted that risk at first". Could you please direct me to that post or provide the quote? Thanks

 

[Chris Kennard]

Carson already answered the question of why he didn't just send money back. Guy asked for reptiles, not money, and agreed to snakes that hadn't even been bred yet. I don't know what kind of "fantasy world" it takes to think that there's any type of guarantee when you're agreeing to take animals that haven't been conceived. Things happen. Animals die, animals don't breed, females lay slugs, incubators fail, clutches end up being all normals, animals get sick, babies don't always get started. There are zero guarantees when you're discussing future animals that don't exist yet. From the sound of it, Guy accepted that risk at first, but when it actually happened, he started getting upset. Carson did what he could to fix it, came up with an acceptable agreement, and then didn't answer his phone for two days and Guy panicked and came here rather than having some patience. I don't know about you, but I don't always have my phone on me. That doesn't mean I'm ducking calls, just that I have a life outside of my phone and the internet.

Does it bother you that Carson is viewing this thread while you are posting for him? You are going to bat for him, yet he isn't going to bat for you.

 

[Robert Walker]

Carson already answered the question of why he didn't just send money back. Guy asked for reptiles, not money,

Fact Check:
"Guy asked for reptiles" instead of his money back, according to who? According to the guy who held his money for 3 years. Carson told Guy multiple times that he could not refund him his money and that he could only get snakes.

I am seeing a lot of straw man comments being thrown out tonight on your part.

 

[Parysa]

Almost three years ago I paid Carson $3,000 for a pair of baby scaleless and a pair of her scaleless cornsnakes. I had purchased several scaleless ratsnakes from him previously so I did not question him when he asked me to deposit the money in his Bank of America account. Shortly after is when I started getting excuse for not receiving what I paid for. The first reason was the breeder he paid screwed him. Then the next year the breeder lost his entire set of eggs in the incubator because of the hurricane. Then last December(2012) we came to a new deal on ball pythons because it was clear to me Carson had no intention of completing our deal and I would not see the snakes or my money back. The new deal was 1.0 pied, 0.2 het pied, 0.2 yellowbellies, 2- 2013 Co Dominant Her Ultramel and one 2013 Spark, which I was to received by end of September 2013.

Then in September of this year Carson told me he did not breed any of his ball pythons this year and he could not get me what we had agreed on. So I asked for my money back and he said he could not pay me. He then came back trying to make a new deal on a male Banana. Which we never finalized because I wanted him to agree upfront of the whole complete deal so I would not get a Banana that cost me $3000, a long wait and a lot of headache.


I have never received any snakes or my money back. I would not have done business with Carson if I knew this is how he treats his customers. Any vendor that wanted to correct this problem would have done so as soon as they knew they could not fulfill what their customer paid for instead of stealing their money.

Chris, he agreed to take animals that hadn't been conceived yet. He has snakes, so I'm assuming a basic level of intelligence and common sense here in realizing that a creature who hasn't been born yet isn't guaranteed to do so, but maybe that's too much to expect.
Robert, he asked for reptiles and it wasn't until September of this year that he says he asked for his money back rather than snakes. Which one of you has $3000 lying around at the drop of a hat? Up until this point, he was telling Carson that he wanted snakes, not money. So it's not really a surprise that he couldn't get that much money up on no notice. Guy said nothing about asking him multiple times. He said he asked once in September and then tentatively agreed on a different set of snakes. If it was that big of a deal, why didn't he just ask for his money back in the first place?
Also, if Carson was trying to steal from him, why string him along for two or three years rather than just saying, "It got stolen. I made a reasonable effort to recover it. Tough luck, buddy. Caveat emptor," or just flat out blocking Guy's number?

 

[Chris Kennard]

Chris, he agreed to take animals that hadn't been conceived yet. He has snakes, so I'm assuming a basic level of intelligence and common sense here in realizing that a creature who hasn't been born yet isn't guaranteed to do so, but maybe that's too much to expect.
Robert, he asked for reptiles and it wasn't until September of this year that he says he asked for his money back rather than snakes. Which one of you has $3000 lying around at the drop of a hat? Up until this point, he was telling Carson that he wanted snakes, not money. So it's not really a surprise that he couldn't get that much money up on no notice. Guy said nothing about asking him multiple times. He said he asked once in September and then tentatively agreed on a different set of snakes. If it was that big of a deal, why didn't he just ask for his money back in the first place?
Also, if Carson was trying to steal from him, why string him along for two or three years rather than just saying, "It got stolen. I made a reasonable effort to recover it. Tough luck, buddy. Caveat emptor," or just flat out blocking Guy's number?

You assumed, meaning you didn't know. Got it. I don't even know how to respond to the rest of your post...

 

[herpsetc]

The one question ill answer why it took so long

When this went down
I asked the OP what he wanted to do
The OP said he wanted other reptiles
I never once told the OP he couldn't receive a refund
So we went over a few things and the final outcome was
A small type 1 season partnership on breeding

That was the ultramel and spark
I was giving the OP a bunch of offspring from both males
Which the OP was 1000 percent onboard
at the time of this agreement both those males were babies
So with that being said I raised up both males which I raise my males slow.
I breed my males at 14 to 16 months old and 800 to 950 grams
With the breeding season 4 to 6 months your talking 18 to 22 months

Both males didn't breed last season so that voided out our agreement
Both males a breeding great now

So I called the OP and told him that the both males flaked out this season
So I offered the OP a banana and bunch of other morphs
He agreed and then changed the agreement a few time of a few weeks
We finally came up with a solid agreement on a ball package

I was getting ready to ship to him within the week and I received a call from a customer looking for a banana
I called the OP and asked if he wanted me to sell it he stated yes so I sold it and added the difference and sent him the cash

After this I told the OP I was sending him a few balls to make up for not producing anything from those males last season which I will send in the next week or two weather permitted

That's why it took so long