Bad Guy Bad Experience with Carson Phelps of Herps Etc

[Chris Kennard]

Robert, considering that I've already taken the time to post it, you're welcome to read back through and find it. I have more to do today than search back through for a post I already made.

April, I apologize.



Chris, the very description of the forum shows that it's set aside for drama. Considering that you have to actively join that forum, it therefore tells me that you actively seek drama, which is all I need to know. I'd appreciate if you'd stop putting words in my mouth.
The situation IS resolved. Guy's money has been returned. Whether anything more is warranted is personal opinion. Personally, there's no way I would do anything extra for a person who'd rather slander (libel, technically) my name and business than go through appropriate channels when there's an issue.



Stephenie, have you ever bred animals? I have. Sometimes virgins take a while to get going. This is almost literally a situation of the both of them counting their chickens before they hatched. Yes, Carson should have informed Guy as soon as he realized the females weren't gravid rather than waiting until hatching. I'm not saying he didn't make mistakes and neither is he that I can see. I'm saying he's not the villain that Chris is trying to make him out to be and that Guy is not blameless in this situation and should take some personal responsibility for his choices.

Guy did go through the apprpriate channels. The BOI. That's the only reason he got anything out of Carson THREE YEARS LATER! And perhaps you could direct this board to just one post where Guy slandered (libel, technically) Carson. Let me quess, ten pages back, go find it yourself?

 

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I believe if the animals are packed, insulated and labled properly, they would be safe to ship. I'm nit sure where the risk is. I think Carson would agree and would be suprised if he didn't ship to someone else on the day in question. JMO.

The animals probably would be alright IF there are no delays. The problem is Winter storm weather anywhere along the route can cause delays. Delays = heat packs running out of time = death. Not much worse than receiving a box of dead and mentally impaired snakes (unfortunately, I know.) As far as what Carson is doing... I don't agree with it at all. But it's also important to note that no matter how long someone has been waiting it's unnacceptable to put anything before the snakes, for any reason.

 

[Robert Walker]

But it's also important to note that no matter how long someone has been waiting it's unnacceptable to put anything before the snakes, for any reason.

Agreed.

 

[Chris Kennard]

The animals probably would be alright IF there are no delays. The problem is Winter storm weather anywhere along the route can cause delays. Delays = heat packs running out of time = death. Not much worse than receiving a box of dead and mentally impaired snakes (unfortunately, I know.) As far as what Carson is doing... I don't agree with it at all. But it's also important to note that no matter how long someone has been waiting it's unnacceptable to put anything before the snakes, for any reason.

Point taken. Not so sure Carson agrees. We shall see. In this case up until now the weather wasn't a factor in the three year wait. I don't believe any of the excuses he used to buy three years time. No documentation (easy to get), no "buddy, no "Steve Miles" and no straight forward answers. While you make good valid points, I think an experienced shipper (thousands of animals a year) who would take an hour to explain his shipping protocol (pretty impressive), could surely get them to their mild destination (Texas) unharmed. Just saying. Thank you for your informative post. I will definitely give it more consideration and perhaps we'll discuss it in a more suitable forum.

 

[WebSlave]

Chris, the very description of the forum shows that it's set aside for drama.

Hmm, well that description you speak of says this:

Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

Not very many lines there for you to read between to come up with your assessment of what I set this forum up for. Or do you just have a habit of filling in the blanks of your knowledge of actual facts with any old random thought that pops into your mind at the moment?

 

[WebSlave]

Aargh... Don't mind me. I didn't realize that the topic had jumped over to talking about the HELL forum. That's what I get for just skimming over these threads.

I'll just shut up now.

 

[Parysa]

Robert, here you go. As I wasn't present and neither of the people who were have any actual proof, this is as close as I can get. But this is what I'm noticing and one of the things that raised red flags for me on Guy's side. I'm snipping some of the quoted posts just so this thing doesn't take up a whole page, but they link back to the original posts if anybody's worried about me removing anything important.

Guy states that he requested his money back in September of 2013 and was told that Carson couldn't pay him back. Prior to that, all of the deals had been "replacement deals" for other snakes.

Then in September of this year Carson told me he did not breed any of his ball pythons this year and he could not get me what we had agreed on. So I asked for my money back and he said he could not pay me.[\b]

He knew it was a long-term deal:

This has taken several years to play out because each new deal was under the assumption that babies had to hatch.[\b]

Again, he paid for the scaleless corns, waited for a replacement, then waited for snakes to breed. He doesn't mention a cash refund.

When I posted this I was mainly trying to get closure on a deal that dragged on way too long. I will clarify a few points that were brought up earlier. I did pay Carson three years ago this coming February since his scaleless guy was cutting a deal because the payment was prior to eggs. It is possible Carson is referring to almost two years on the second season I was waiting on scaleless corns that were paid for the prior year. I did stay in sporadic contact with Carson with updates around expected delivery dates. Since we did business on scaleless rat snakes I felt comfortable with the initial deal and figured I would get the scaleless corns but have to wait longer than I wanted.[\b]

Obviously the second replacement deal we made was for a group of ball pythons to be delivered by August 2013[\b] never happened. I wanted the complete deal finalized before receiving just a male banana ball.

...it has not been disputed that I waited for two different season's for scaleless corns and then the following year the ball package.[\b] In addition during all of my phone conversation with Carson the time frame has never been denied.

It's only after the thread blows up with Chris and Lucille and others posting that he says anything about wanting a cash refund prior to the balls not breeding, which contradicts what he said in his original post (that in September of this year, he asked for money back and was told he couldn't get it).

I finally received my cash refund from Carson, which is ironic because after the original deal did not go trough with the scaleless corns Carson told me I could not get my money back.[\b] He said I could get balls or nothing. I wonder why after almost three years of trying to get anything from Carson I finally received something, could it have been the public pressure?

Yet again, he contradicts his original post and claims that he had asked for a refund when he had been very specific that he requested a refund in September of 2013 and neither he nor Carson ever before or after this comment said anything about Carson promising a refund and not delivering.

Also, is it right that something had to be posted on BOI to cause a reaction instead of empty promises on receiving my money?[\b] I think any reputable dealer would have fixed this as soon as the customer asked for a refund when nothing was ever shipped, which was the original deal and I did as soon as Carson told me the first year I would not receive the scaleless corns.[\b]

If the refund was so important to Guy and was more important to him than receiving snakes, then why is it that he continually stated that their deals were for replacement snakes until everyone jumped on and the post had gotten however many pages long and only THEN claims he requested a refund prior to September 2013?
That, combined with him demanding more and more valuable snakes on top of the $3000 he was owed back makes me think that he either changed his mind on the banana male and/or realized he could use fauna to pressure Carson to get more than they agreed to.

 

[herpsetc]

A lesson on shipping for Chris kennard

Lets start with fed ex

Packages shipped next day delivery guaranteed by 10:30am

Most packages go thru Memphis or Indy

So lets say I was shipping fed ex tonite to ORD

It would leave PHL with temps tonite 8 degrees it would arrive in Memphis most likely Around 1am and its about 10 degrees there
Then it would leave Memphis and go onto ORD negative 13 degrees

Those planes are not temp control. So with that being said I do not ship fed ex in the winter unless there's a major break in the weather

Plus if there is a delay for some reason there's no way for fed ex to retrieve your package and place it in a temp control room

Insurance isn't available for fed ex

Fed ex is more convenient when the weather is better for shipping
All packages can be dropped off at the same time

Chris would u ship a snake in those temps ?

Even if I ship 20 million snakes a year there's no way I would jeopardize a snakes life to accommodate anyone


Lesson number 2

Airline shipping

Same day arrival

Lets go with delta airlines

There's delta dash and pet first

When shipping any live stock thru delta it will be placed in a temp control cargo area in the plane with temps around 68 to 72 degrees

So lets say I ship from PHL to ATL its a direct flight

Around 2 hour flight time

From the time it's dropped off and picked up by the customer your talking 5.5 hours (very safe for the snake) less stress etc etc

Now I have to call delta and find flights from PHL to ATL, from there ill contact the customer and ask them if any of these flights work for them
Once we come up with a flight the package will be dropped off 1.5 hours before the flight departs and the package has a retrieval time of 1 hour

Even with delta being temp control I still look at the temps on my end and the receivers end

Then there's connection flights

The example for connecting flights

PHL to LAX the connection flight is ATL
So the package would leave PHL to ATL then to LAX

It's basically the same with above shipping just takes longer for your package to get there anywhere from 7 to 8 hours

Delta price is $90 plus depending on the size of the box and weight

US AIRWAYS and SOUTHWEST are the same as above ^ with direct flights and connecting flights

Now us airways and southwest airline are a hit or miss on temp control for cargo

The price for us airways is $54 and up and the price for Southwest Airlines is $89 and up

With airline shipping I prefer to ship direct flights its safer, if the package doesn't make it's flight I can retrieve the package and ship a different day (that's if)

I use all 3 because it gives me the option for more direct flights

Another plus if a package is lost the airlines will retrieve the package and place it in a temp control room

Insurance is a option

Airlines are more time consuming because 1 package might leave at 9 am and another might leave at 1pm so a few trips to the airport might be necessary

With that being said I still have to keep temps in mind

 

[Chris Kennard]

Robert, here you go. As I wasn't present and neither of the people who were have any actual proof, this is as close as I can get. But this is what I'm noticing and one of the things that raised red flags for me on Guy's side. I'm snipping some of the quoted posts just so this thing doesn't take up a whole page, but they link back to the original posts if anybody's worried about me removing anything important.

Guy states that he requested his money back in September of 2013 and was told that Carson couldn't pay him back. Prior to that, all of the deals had been "replacement deals" for other snakes.


He knew it was a long-term deal:


Again, he paid for the scaleless corns, waited for a replacement, then waited for snakes to breed. He doesn't mention a cash refund.





It's only after the thread blows up with Chris and Lucille and others posting that he says anything about wanting a cash refund prior to the balls not breeding, which contradicts what he said in his original post (that in September of this year, he asked for money back and was told he couldn't get it).


Yet again, he contradicts his original post and claims that he had asked for a refund when he had been very specific that he requested a refund in September of 2013 and neither he nor Carson ever before or after this comment said anything about Carson promising a refund and not delivering.


If the refund was so important to Guy and was more important to him than receiving snakes, then why is it that he continually stated that their deals were for replacement snakes until everyone jumped on and the post had gotten however many pages long and only THEN claims he requested a refund prior to September 2013?
That, combined with him demanding more and more valuable snakes on top of the $3000 he was owed back makes me think that he either changed his mind on the banana male and/or realized he could use fauna to pressure Carson to get more than they agreed to.

Wow! I wouldn't even know how to respond to that. That may be the most distorted interpretation of posts I've ever seen here.

 

[herpsetc]

So what don't u understand on the shipping
Shipping Chris

 

[Chris Kennard]

A lesson on shipping for Chris kennard

Lets start with fed ex

Packages shipped next day delivery guaranteed by 10:30am

Most packages go thru Memphis or Indy

So lets say I was shipping fed ex tonite to ORD

It would leave PHL with temps tonite 8 degrees it would arrive in Memphis most likely Around 1am and its about 10 degrees there
Then it would leave Memphis and go onto ORD negative 13 degrees

Those planes are not temp control. So with that being said I do not ship fed ex in the winter unless there's a major break in the weather

Plus if there is a delay for some reason there's no way for fed ex to retrieve your package and place it in a temp control room

Insurance isn't available for fed ex

Fed ex is more convenient when the weather is better for shipping
All packages can be dropped off at the same time

Chris would u ship a snake in those temps ?

Even if I ship 20 million snakes a year there's no way I would jeopardize a snakes life to accommodate anyone


Lesson number 2

Airline shipping

Same day arrival

Lets go with delta airlines

There's delta dash and pet first

When shipping any live stock thru delta it will be placed in a temp control cargo area in the plane with temps around 68 to 72 degrees

So lets say I ship from PHL to ATL its a direct flight

Around 2 hour flight time

From the time it's dropped off and picked up by the customer your talking 5.5 hours (very safe for the snake) less stress etc etc

Now I have to call delta and find flights from PHL to ATL, from there ill contact the customer and ask them if any of these flights work for them
Once we come up with a flight the package will be dropped off 1.5 hours before the flight departs and the package has a retrieval time of 1 hour

Even with delta being temp control I still look at the temps on my end and the receivers end

Then there's connection flights

The example for connecting flights

PHL to LAX the connection flight is ATL
So the package would leave PHL to ATL then to LAX

It's basically the same with above shipping just takes longer for your package to get there anywhere from 7 to 8 hours

Delta price is $90 plus depending on the size of the box and weight

US AIRWAYS and SOUTHWEST are the same as above ^ with direct flights and connecting flights

Now us airways and southwest airline are a hit or miss on temp control for cargo

The price for us airways is $54 and up and the price for Southwest Airlines is $89 and up

With airline shipping I prefer to ship direct flights its safer, if the package doesn't make it's flight I can retrieve the package and ship a different day (that's if)

I use all 3 because it gives me the option for more direct flights

Another plus if a package is lost the airlines will retrieve the package and place it in a temp control room

Insurance is a option

Airlines are more time consuming because 1 package might leave at 9 am and another might leave at 1pm so a few trips to the airport might be necessary

With that being said I still have to keep temps in mind

Do tell. A magnificent post indeed. Wouldn't it have been easier for you to just answer Guy's question, keep the snakes and move on instead of making this about shipping, conveniently?

 

[Chris Kennard]

So what don't u understand on the shipping
Shipping Chris

I understand just fine Carson. Never said I didn't. Thank you for that insightful post. Shame you won't spend that much time addressing the important issues here. People see through smokescreens here. Just sayin'.

 

[burmbreeder5]

dont you people think its enough already refund made, anything carson does beyond that is a gift . let it go people you know who you are stop post and stop cross posting on good guy threads when you have no first hand dealings with carson and aS FAR AS WE KNOW DEALING WITH ANYONE

 

[Robert Walker]

It was payment for a product for which he requested animals, not cash, as refund when Carson was scammed out of the original product.

The proof I was looking for was to back up the above statement as "fact".
The statement was constructed as definitive and represented some type of firsthand knowledge.

I was hoping you had some proof in form of an email, text, voice recording, etc between the two parties that could back up the statement as fact vs. a pieced together opinion.

Robert, here you go. As I wasn't present and neither of the people who were have any actual proof, this is as close as I can get.
...makes me think...

This is the problem everyone else (including myself) has, none of us were present. If someone else was present he/she hasn't piped up yet.

Since none of us were present except Guy & Carson, none of us know with 100% certainty what agreement was made once the original deal feel apart. Sure we can guess and try to connect the dots, but none of us can come on here and declare that Guy did or didn't request a refund originally. Sure he says he requested a refund in Sept, however, that statement doesn't make void the possibility that he did the same when the deal originally fell apart.

Unless Carson or Guy or some mysterious spy with actual proof appears, the rest of us are simply "attempting" to piece things together. If one of them could produce proof, then the thread would end.

My point is, if someone is going to state something like it is a "fact", then produce actual firsthand proof. I am 100% open to proof from either party

 

[Lucille]

None of the above. Just an average guy.
I originally thought all this BOI would do is bring it to people's attention so it would not happen to them. I am still surprised at how quickly it has helped correct the situation.
Thank you BOI and those that asked questions.

Sometimes asking questions is easy, sometimes it is difficult, but the BOI, and asking questions, often gets the job done.

 

[Parysa]

The proof I was looking for was to back up the above statement as "fact".
The statement was constructed as definitive and represented some type of firsthand knowledge.

I was hoping you had some proof in form of an email, text, voice recording, etc between the two parties that could back up the statement as fact vs. a pieced together opinion.



This is the problem everyone else (including myself) has, none of us were present. If someone else was present he/she hasn't piped up yet.

Since none of us were present except Guy & Carson, none of us know with 100% certainty what agreement was made once the original deal feel apart. Sure we can guess and try to connect the dots, but none of us can come on here and declare that Guy did or didn't request a refund originally. Sure he says he requested a refund in Sept, however, that statement doesn't make void the possibility that he did the same when the deal originally fell apart.

Unless Carson or Guy or some mysterious spy with actual proof appears, the rest of us are simply "attempting" to piece things together. If one of them could produce proof, then the thread would end.

My point is, if someone is going to state something like it is a "fact", then produce actual firsthand proof. I am 100% open to proof from either party

Robert, as I said, there's no actual proof either way. However, Chris has blatantly stated that Carson has scammed Guy and falsified information, accused him of faking evidence when there's been none posted by either party, and repeated Guy's statements as fact on multiple occasions, yet isn't held to the same standard of "proof." I'm somewhat curious as to why Chris is permitted to continue making definitive statements and attacks without a word against him or any requests for verifiable "proof" yet I'm getting slammed with every post along with passive-aggressive negative "karma" crap posted on my wall simply for being willing to stand up for someone when there is no more proof that he's done wrong than there is that Guy has been victimized.

 

[Parysa]

And I'm addressing that to you, Robert, because so far you're one of the few who seems to not yet have Carson tried and hanged with absolutely nothing more than their word to go on.

 

[Charlie Redmon]

Lets start with fed ex

Packages shipped next day delivery guaranteed by 10:30am

This is actually not quite accurate. Packages are only guaranteed to be delivered by whatever time the delivery address is zoned for by fedex. That might be 10:30 in some places, others it may be noon, others it may be as late as 4 or 6pm.

 

[Robert Walker]

Paige,
I personally have jumped on the "proof" issue specifically related to what I believe to be the "KEY" question, or comments related to it.

Neither party had documentation in the beginning, that we know of.
The "deal" feel through.
Then again neither party had documentation as to how they agreed to solve it, that we know of.

So again this leads me to the "KEY" question, can anyone provide proof for the agreement after the original deal fell through.

If Carson can provide proof that Guy "wanted" snakes and not a refund, he can clear his name, come out on top and prove to the rest of us that Guy is untrustworthy.

OR vice versa

If Guy can provide proof that he asked for a refund and was denied it, he can clear his name, come out on top and prove to the rest of us that Carson is untrustworthy.

OR

Since neither party has produced anything tangible, I am/have been hoping there is/was a third party with some actual "facts".

OR WORSE YET

No one ever produces any facts/proof and BOTH Carson & Guy come out of this with wounded reputations. Ultimately, we are all here on the BOI to figure out who is or isn't trustworthy. Those who have figured it out for themselves have since moved on and are no longer reading. Those like myself are willing to wait it out a little longer.

If people have got on you for expressing your opinion, sorry to hear that. We all have one and are entitled to it.

 

[herpsetc]

That's correct

There are different zones for shipping via fed ex

I was posting the 10:30 am option