Inquiry Sunshine Serpents

[RichsBallPythons]

You are missing the point, the size is not what is generally expected by rat snake owners. Not just ME. The size SHOULD have been disclosed. Especially since it was so much smaller than MOST would expect. The snake was not represented honestly.
Rather than provide the size information requested, we were rushed into a decision by the dealer.

again, its not just ME who thinks the snake is small
http://www.herpcenter.com/ratsnakes/52335-how-big-17-month-old-yellow-rat.html
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/gene...big-should-17-month-old-yellow-rat-snake.html
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/1022373-any-yellow-rat-snake-owners.html

so this isn't ONE person thinking the snake would be something different , then being wrong . I had EVERY reason to expect a vastly larger snake.

There should be some sort of compensation offered for this

You Just do not get it and i feel sorry for you. You did NOT have to make a Decision right then. It was YOUR money and if you didnt get the answer to your size of the snake, why did you send money! The Snake is healthy, it obviously wasnt pumped full of food to be massive at year old. Keep the snake and feed her, you got her as a pet did you not.

Snakes like i states Go through growth spurts at different ages, and when they are maintenance fed to stay healthy they don't get many spurts. You start feeding it the way you like, the snake I guarantee it will sprout up in next few months to the size you EXPECTED

 

[Ed Clark]

And as I've said before, rather than giving us an answer on the size, we were told we had to decide RIGHT THEN.

At this point you should have said no thanks on the sale, then looked for another breeder that would answer your questions.

 

[poomwah]

Umm You just described Buyers remorse. You are unsatisfied cause the Picture made you think snake was larger. He obviously feeds his snakes enough to keep them healthy and thriving. Not stuff them full so they are 100 gram monsters in a year.

If you didn't get the size then WHY send payment. You fell in love with this animal right! Or was that just a shot as some reverse psychology to get the seller to feel sorry and just sell her to you. If you didnt feel comfortable sending RIGHT then till your answer to size was answered, why did you!

Buyers Remorse is what you are doing and its disrespectful.

And Rich, I see some of your points, but another clarification I'd like to make.
We are not talking about just my misconception. Let's for a minute pretend that the picture doesn't make the snake seem larger than it really is. The picture did not make me think the snake was larger, if anything the snake didn't make me think it was smaller . That may seem like the same thing, but the importance of that is, the REAL reason I expected the snake to be larger was not because of the picture. It was because rat snakes of that age are generally if not MOST often, significantly larger than this one. It's not that I had lofty expectations, I received a snake that was literally 4 to 5 times smaller than the average north american rat snake of the same age.
Not powerfed, obese monsters, but average.
Who on earth would expect that? Who on earth should have to ask "are your snakes 4 times smaller than the average snake" or should a customer be able to expect a dealer to provide average size snakes, and if not that the dealer should openly disclose "we raise and maintain our snakes at rates and sizes substantially lower than what is commonly expected in the hobby".
buyer's remorse would be if we got the snake, and it was SLIGHTLY off what was expected, or if my expectations were unrealistic.
This is not the case at all.

 

[poomwah]

At this point you should have said no thanks on the sale, then looked for another breeder that would answer your questions.

I totally agree Ed, and I really wish I had.
The reason I didn't was because the way that my family reacted to that picture, and because all the good things I read about Daniel and SS, I thought it was worth taking the risk. I had no idea that such a reputable breeder would withhold such important information.
Like I said, if you want to feed and raise your snakes at a slower rate than most in the hobby, that's totally cool, it obviously works for you. BUt if you are going to do something so far from the norm in the hobby, by all means, tell your customers that up front. Post that in your ads, something.

 

[poomwah]

You Just do not get it and i feel sorry for you. You did NOT have to make a Decision right then. It was YOUR money and if you didnt get the answer to your size of the snake, why did you send money! The Snake is healthy, it obviously wasnt pumped full of food to be massive at year old. Keep the snake and feed her, you got her as a pet did you not.

Snakes like i states Go through growth spurts at different ages, and when they are maintenance fed to stay healthy they don't get many spurts. You start feeding it the way you like, the snake I guarantee it will sprout up in next few months to the size you EXPECTED

Don't feel sorry for me. I do get it. .
How did I not have to make a decision right then? Either buy her that day, or she was going to the reptile show. I had to make a decision to either buy her, or decide to get a different snake. So yes, a decision HAD to be made and made then.
You are totally right, the snake was not pumped full of food to be massive at a year old. It was maintenance fed to be diminutive size at a year and a half.
And it has undesirable traits that were not shown in the picture.
Growth spurts are understandable and if I can ever get her to eat, maybe she'll reach one.

 

[Teatime]

The information was not inaccurate, it was NOT provided, instead we were told that we had to make a decision RIGHT THEN or they would take her to a reptile show the next day and sell her.

Really? Because in your very first post here, you didn't say a thing about being forced into anything. By your own admission, you told the seller that you were ready to get her. Apparently the size/weight didn't matter all that much to you since you said you wanted to purchase her before you apparently got the answer. Nobody forced you to make a decision. You never even sent them the money until after you posted this thread trying to get him to sell her to you. And the seller mentioned that he did bring all the animals to a reptile show after the fact, so that obviously wasn't pressuring you into buying her.

Guess some people are just never satisfied.

 

[Ed Clark]

I had no idea that such a reputable breeder would withhold such important information.

Not sure I would go so far as to say that.
I have kept and bred rat snakes for a very long time and still do, they all grow at different rates.maybe you just got a slow grower, that does not mean it is not healthy and will probubly mature as a full sized adult.

 

[poomwah]

Not sure I would go so far as to say that.
I have kept and bred rat snakes for a very long time and still do, they all grow at different rates.maybe you just got a slow grower, that does not mean it is not healthy and will probubly mature as a full sized adult.

I get that Ed, but if it is a slow grower, and someone asked about its size, would n't you say, well, these are slow growers?
I didn't get a slow grower though as Daniel says this is normal size for his colony. So his colony are slow growers, by his choice, again, which is is god given right, that will not be disputed. But wouldn't you think if you raise snakes smaller than normal, you'd tell someone about it so they'd know what to expect?

 

[Snake-Queen]

Seth, just feed her every 5 days gradually increasing the prey size, she should grow and possibly catch up in size.

 

[poomwah]

Really? Because in your very first post here, you didn't say a thing about being forced into anything. By your own admission, you told the seller that you were ready to get her. Apparently the size/weight didn't matter all that much to you since you said you wanted to purchase her before you apparently got the answer. Nobody forced you to make a decision. You never even sent them the money until after you posted this thread trying to get him to sell her to you. And the seller mentioned that he did bring all the animals to a reptile show after the fact, so that obviously wasn't pressuring you into buying her.

Guess some people are just never satisfied.

Of course my first post wouldn't mention that because that was before it happened. If the size and weight didn't matter, why did the seller post on there that I had asked about the size of the snake.
Of course I didn't send the money until after I posted on here, because before I posted on here , he had changed the deal to I had to buy a pair or a male, not the one originally offered.
I don't understand what you mean about he mentioned bringing the animals to a show after the fact and that obviously wasn't pressuring us into buying her. I guess the after the fact part is what I don't understand, not sure what you are getting at.
To try to clear that one up.
In the email I got saying that he would honor our original agreement, he also said "Please be aware that my employees are packing for a reptile show today and we will have that snake for sale there if it has not been purchased" I'm not sure how that is after the fact as the snake hadn't been purchased yet, sorry for arguing, just trying to understand what you mean. And also, how there wasn't any pressure to make a decision. If we waited she would obviously gone to that show

 

[poomwah]

Seth, just feed her every 5 days gradually increasing the prey size, she should grow and possibly catch up in size.

Thank you Snake-Queen, its refreshing to see a helpful post :]
I'm trying. I gave her a week to settle in. She refused her food :\ tried tease feeding, tried cup feeding. No luck. I gave her another 5 days. Same thing.
I'm not sure if I should try braining next, or I've head of some people having luck with scenting their pinkies with fish.
Just my luck on top of everything else I get a picky eater
lol

 

[Ed Clark]

but if it is a slow grower, and someone asked about its size, would n't you say, well, these are slow growers?

When you got no answer as to size that would be the time to start looking else where. you should have been provided with a gram weight and measured length when you asked about the size. I dont see that the seller should have to refund anything. the pic looks like a healthy snake.

 

[Snake-Queen]

I don't have experience with yellow rats, just grays ... have you left the pinkie in overnight?
My next step would put her in a paper bag with the pinkie (it works occasionally on corns), then braining.

 

[poomwah]

When you got no answer as to size that would be the time to start looking else where. you should have been provided with a gram weight and measured length when you asked about the size. I dont see that the seller should have to refund anything. the pic looks like a healthy snake.

so you say that even though she's the size of a typical 2013 I STILL should have been charged 2013 price?

so I guess all of these people are wrong as well
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/1022373-any-yellow-rat-snake-owners.html
http://www.herpcenter.com/ratsnakes/52335-how-big-17-month-old-yellow-rat.html
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/gene...big-should-17-month-old-yellow-rat-snake.html

Snake-Queen,
I haven't tried the paper bag yet, I'll try that next. I've tried tease feeding, I've tried warming the pinkies, and I've tried deli-cupping overnight. Each time, the next morning she was curled up around the lid of the cup with the food in the bottom.

 

[poomwah]

I will be the first to admit that the snakes health is the most important thing. But why is it all that matters?
I guarantee if I sold you something that was so much different that was reasonable to expect. You would be pissed off at me. You wouldn't just say , oh well he should have told me about this or that, but hey it's in good condition, that's all that matters.

 

[Walter1]

I don't have experience with yellow rats, just grays ... have you left the pinkie in overnight?
My next step would put her in a paper bag with the pinkie (it works occasionally on corns), then braining.

Makes me wonder. My S. Fl. Yellow-Everglades Ratsnakes and Everglades Ratsnakes (all F1s from WC over the years) begin life with live pinks becaue so very few of them will start life with a frozen/thawed. After 4-5 feedings, it's frozen-thawed only. In nature most start off on lizards and frogs. Daniel knows these snakes very well. I wonder what he feeds them?

 

[poomwah]

Daniel feeds them live and FT pinkies

 

[Walter1]

Daniel feeds them live and FT pinkies

Well, nothing about how you say you are keeping this snake tells me that it should not be eating. Samll and won't eat?

 

[Teatime]

I don't feel like arguing either, but I'll explain my points.

If the size and weight didn't matter, why did the seller post on there that I had asked about the size of the snake.

If the size and weight DID matter, then why did you still want the snake if the information was "not provided" as you claim? You had ample opportunity to ask plenty of questions, if the seller's response in this thread is accurate. You wanted the snake so much that you made this thread, which nobody was pressuring you into.

Of course I didn't send the money until after I posted on here, because before I posted on here , he had changed the deal to I had to buy a pair or a male, not the one originally offered.

What I mean is, there was no deal, no agreement, no mention of payment. You asked a lot of questions (as is normal, lots of people inquire), told the seller that you weren't ready, then later when you were ready he explained his policy to you. At that point, you still didn't have any agreement to buy her, he hadn't committed to selling her yet. It isn't like he was specifically holding her for you. No money involved or agreed upon, no deal, nothing.

In the email I got saying that he would honor our original agreement, he also said "Please be aware that my employees are packing for a reptile show today and we will have that snake for sale there if it has not been purchased" I'm not sure how that is after the fact as the snake hadn't been purchased yet, sorry for arguing, just trying to understand what you mean. And also, how there wasn't any pressure to make a decision. If we waited she would obviously gone to that show

The "after the fact" show I was referring to was the one mentioned in the seller's post on here. He stated he brought all his animals to a show after your initial correspondence. Obviously there was another show that he was packing for during this thread too.

Nobody forced you to make a decision. Time is of the essence in any open sale because whoever sends the money in first gets the snake. It's within his rights to bring his available animals to shows... I'm sure if he held back all the animals that people inquired about, he'd miss out on lots of actual sales. If you want to interpret that as him pressuring you, go ahead, but I don't think he's in the wrong there. It sounds like he was just trying to eliminate a potential time-waster.

 

[DISCERN]

Thank you Snake-Queen, its refreshing to see a helpful post :]
I'm trying. I gave her a week to settle in. She refused her food :\ tried tease feeding, tried cup feeding. No luck. I gave her another 5 days. Same thing.
I'm not sure if I should try braining next, or I've head of some people having luck with scenting their pinkies with fish.
Just my luck on top of everything else I get a picky eater
lol

Seth, what size cage is the snake currently being kept in? Temps?