• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Inquiry Sunshine Serpents

She's currently being kept in a 20 gallon on paper substrate. The cool end is well withing spec, as is the warm end. She has five different hides available, hot, cool, middle and one halfway between each end and the middle, some of the hides are ceramic pots, some are sterilized bark, Ceramic water bowl. Tank kept in a low traffic area of the house.
 
so you say that even though she's the size of a typical 2013 I STILL should have been charged 2013 price?

so I guess all of these people are wrong as well
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/1022373-any-yellow-rat-snake-owners.html
http://www.herpcenter.com/ratsnakes/52335-how-big-17-month-old-yellow-rat.html
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/gene...big-should-17-month-old-yellow-rat-snake.html

Snake-Queen,
I haven't tried the paper bag yet, I'll try that next. I've tried tease feeding, I've tried warming the pinkies, and I've tried deli-cupping overnight. Each time, the next morning she was curled up around the lid of the cup with the food in the bottom.

Throw a live pink in the hidebox at night, shut the lights off and leave it alone! Your snake will never acclimate if you're up it's wazoo all the time. You got a really nice looking rat that you just had to have. Don't like it? Sell it!
 
so you say that even though she's the size of a typical 2013 I STILL should have been charged 2013 price?
Thats not what I am saying. even though you expected a larger snake, you paid for this snake, he sent you the snake. I do not see a reason for him to refund anything. it sems to me that your only concern is to get a refund.
 
Throw a live pink in the hidebox at night, shut the lights off and leave it alone! Your snake will never acclimate if you're up it's wazoo all the time. You got a really nice looking rat that you just had to have. Don't like it? Sell it!

Thanks Chris,
I might just try a live pink. And while I appreciate your advice and trying to help, this just makes me wonder, does anyone actually read what's on here?
up the snakes wazoo all the time?? How? The snake was left alone for a week in a low traffic area of the house before trying to feed. Left alone for another 5 days other than taking it out because some one on here wanted a picture for proof of something. How is that up the snakes wazoo all the time?
Also, how can someone read what has been posted and bring up the point that we just had to have the snake when the reason we had to have the snake is because it looked so great in pictures but in person its hard to tell its even the same snake.
Don't like it, sell it???? How, how can I sell a snake that is not feeding? And if I get it feeding , who's going to want such a small yearling.
I'll be lucky to get 25 bucks out of it.
 
Thanks Chris,
I might just try a live pink. And while I appreciate your advice and trying to help, this just makes me wonder, does anyone actually read what's on here?
up the snakes wazoo all the time?? How? The snake was left alone for a week in a low traffic area of the house before trying to feed. Left alone for another 5 days other than taking it out because some one on here wanted a picture for proof of something. How is that up the snakes wazoo all the time?
Also, how can someone read what has been posted and bring up the point that we just had to have the snake when the reason we had to have the snake is because it looked so great in pictures but in person its hard to tell its even the same snake.
Don't like it, sell it???? How, how can I sell a snake that is not feeding? And if I get it feeding , who's going to want such a small yearling.
I'll be lucky to get 25 bucks out of it.

You want to get rid of it? I'll buy it for what you payed. I'll get it feeding, then I'll send you a pic next year of the beautiful, healthy snake you gave up.
 
She's currently being kept in a 20 gallon on paper substrate. The cool end is well withing spec, as is the warm end. She has five different hides available, hot, cool, middle and one halfway between each end and the middle, some of the hides are ceramic pots, some are sterilized bark, Ceramic water bowl. Tank kept in a low traffic area of the house.

Her being in a Wide open tank from being born and raised in a Snake rack is why she isnt eating.

Drop her to something smaller like 5g or 10 at most. Keep cool side 70-73F with a 82-85hot spot.

If need more help on this, make a thread in the forums and post link back here to get more help.
 
She's currently being kept in a 20 gallon on paper substrate. The cool end is well withing spec, as is the warm end. She has five different hides available, hot, cool, middle and one halfway between each end and the middle, some of the hides are ceramic pots, some are sterilized bark, Ceramic water bowl. Tank kept in a low traffic area of the house.


I will say one thing here; put her in something smaller ... a shoebox sized tub, a 5 gal, small kritter keeper, etc. She doesn't feel secure and safe is my bet. I can promise that Daniel did not keep her in a large enclosure & it's overwhelming her.

My little WC rat snake ate crickets for his first few feedings with me, then had no issues eating f/t pinks off tongs ... he is in a shoebox tote.
 
You want to get rid of it? I'll buy it for what you payed. I'll get it feeding, then I'll send you a pic next year of the beautiful, healthy snake you gave up.

Chris read my mind, as so many others that have posted already. If Chris ends up not wanting to buy it off you I will for the same price you paid. And I will update just as Chris suggested with photos in 6 months and then a year. I don't even work with Rat Snakes anymore but this is just ridiculous!

I can't believe this thread is still going on! And by the way if you look at Sunshine Serpents website and go to the page with the description of these Rat Snakes it clearly says at the top "Hatchlings range in price from $35-$55".
Yours is not a hatchling and it also states as quoted in this thread a couple times females are generally priced higher than males.

Is the snake small compared to other captive bred rat snakes YES. Is the snake unhealthy NO! I would rather have a snake that's healthy and small in comparison to other captives than overfed. There is nothing wrong with that snake and no one forced you to buy it! It's a young snake and it will grow just fine. I'm not sure why the size of the snake at this point in time is so important to you to cause this much grief. Is it the extra $10 that's bugging you?

Also when someone says the temps are fine and don't give them is always a red flag. Another one is using a glass tank with all 4 sides open and making the snake feel vulnerable. Try covering up all sides but the front with paper to make the snake feel more secure. I also have a hard time believing that you are actually leaving the snake alone as you can't leave this subject alone. The snake is being moved around held put in different tubs for pics being held for pics taken out to get a better look at the snake you feel was misrepresented some how. Snakes grow and if you want the snake to grow faster get a handle on your husbandry because it needs some work. I'm sure you will take that as a dig, it's not, I just don't have time to sugar coat.

What is actually your issue? And yes I read this thread although I wish I hadn't. You created this thread because you had to have that snake you got the snake and it's smaller than what you expected. That snake is more on par in size with its wild counter part. Yes you can feed the heck out of these things and they can reach 4-5' in the same amount of time. Is your snake stunted in anyway NO . If that were the case all wild snakes would be stunted because they're not being hand fed gourmet rodents twice a week. I have, as many others on this forum I'm sure have as well, paid hundreds and even thousands on a snake to have it show up with all kinds of health issues that are life threatening. And you are causing such a fuss because you think you paid $10 to $20 more than you should have on a beautiful healthy $60 rat snake because you think it should be larger.

My best advice to you is stop posting on this board bickering over such an irrelevant issue and spend that time researching and brushing up on your husbandry and how you can improve it. And if you think there is a problem with the snake why it's not feeding well that just shows you how much you don't no. Snakes want to eat, they want to live, they don't stop eating and die out of spite. Picky feeder is not a condition, the snake is telling you something isn't right whether it's the choice of food, the temps, the caging and all its furnishings. When a snake refuses to eat, everyone wants to blame the snake, saying it's a picky feeder, and the keeper never takes responsibility for what's going on. These are live animals not some toy you assumed came with batteries and you're pissed because the fine print was to fine stating batteries not included. Yes, some snakes will eat in a bucket of crap with no heat source and only offered hot dogs, while others will only eat if everything is absolutely perfect. When a healthy snake doesn't eat most of the time it's because they feel vulnerable. Since they eat such large meals compared to body size their mobility to flee in the face of danger is drastically reduced. Also having no appendages they're at a great disadvantage while in the process of eating. Their only defensive posture is to strike but with their prey half way in their mouth they become an easy target for a predator, unable to dash away into a hiding area and not able to defend itself either. So unless the snake isn't eating because of a health issue or you're offering a prey item that doesn't register with the snake, it's most likely its enclosure is not supporting it's basic needs like security. And 10 little hides in its cage is not security especially in a glass tank.

I have spent way to much time on this post already, if I thought what I said would actually make a difference I would continue. But this thread is already so long and over such a trivial issue that I'm bowing out even though I just stepped in. But stepping in was against my better judgment in the first place or I would have posted much sooner but after reading this whole thread from when it started I couldn't just be a spectator anymore. But back to the bleachers for me, good luck to all involved in this thread! And to the OP I hope you get over this and enjoy that beautiful rat snake!
 
chazz (cool nickname by the way),
I am not risking the animals health by shipping her again, especially this soon after her trip.
You and chris act like you are offering these great solutions, if I wanted to spend money for shipping you or chris the snake, why wouldn't I just ship it back to Daniel?
If I'm misunderstanding I apologize, but how is your offer any better than Daniels?

This thread is going on because people only read little bits and pieces of posts and comment on them. For instance, your questioning what the concern was about the animals size. I cannot handle the snake its too small for my fingers and hands to safely handle. My family is not experienced enough to deal with such a nervous snake. THAT is a very valid reason for wanting a larger snake, and a very valid reason why its such a problem now.
I was too lazy to post the temps. cool end fluctuates from 70-72 depending on the weather, warm end 83-84 depending again on the weather. This is how I set up for my other north american rats as well. Three sides of the tank are painted on the outside. And its kept in a room that sees very little traffic. The pics were taken when being transferred from the shipping container to her enclosure. Except for the pic that was taken a few nights ago. Other than that YES, she has been left alone. She wasn't taken out to compare her with the original pic, the pics that were taken upon unboxing were used for that comparison.
It's not about how much money you've spent or how much I spent its the principle. The snake in the picture was absolutely beautiful , this is not. Even when she gets older , she's still going to have that unattractive white nose. Which, like I said, did not show in the picture. I don't like that trait that some yellow rats . Am I being picky.... at this point HECK YES, I deserve to be. Just because these aren't important things to YOU, does not make it irrelevant. I'm totally confident that if you had a problem with something I didn't care about, that you would still feel it mattered.
I like your reference to fine print, maybe the fine print should have said "our snakes are smaller than what would normally expected" then you could blame me.
I'm sorry that you don't trust the way I keep my snakes, I'm sorry you were offended by my using the term "picky eaters" , I didnt mean the snake was being spiteful and not eating for that reason, I use that as a term for those snakes that have some sort of situation that makes feeding more complicated, some eat at odd times of day, some are more prone to go off feed during certain times of year, some have definite preferences when it comes to the size and type of prey items. I'm sorry that I didn't realize that the snake wasnt secure enough to eat. I've spoken with many breeders who have said that as long as there were plenty of secure hides available that it would be ok.
and of course, after your long rant, you throw in the dig that what you said won't make a difference, and point out that its a trivial issue. trivial to YOU and a few people on here, not trivial to MANY others. But of course you don't care about them.
I wish I could enjoy what you think is a beautiful snake. Nobody over here thinks she is. If she looked like the one in the pic we'd think she's beautiful.
 
chazz (cool nickname by the way),
I am not risking the animals health by shipping her again, especially this soon after her trip.
You and chris act like you are offering these great solutions, if I wanted to spend money for shipping you or chris the snake, why wouldn't I just ship it back to Daniel?
If I'm misunderstanding I apologize, but how is your offer any better than Daniels?

This thread is going on because people only read little bits and pieces of posts and comment on them. For instance, your questioning what the concern was about the animals size. I cannot handle the snake its too small for my fingers and hands to safely handle. My family is not experienced enough to deal with such a nervous snake. THAT is a very valid reason for wanting a larger snake, and a very valid reason why its such a problem now.
I was too lazy to post the temps. cool end fluctuates from 70-72 depending on the weather, warm end 83-84 depending again on the weather. This is how I set up for my other north american rats as well. Three sides of the tank are painted on the outside. And its kept in a room that sees very little traffic. The pics were taken when being transferred from the shipping container to her enclosure. Except for the pic that was taken a few nights ago. Other than that YES, she has been left alone. She wasn't taken out to compare her with the original pic, the pics that were taken upon unboxing were used for that comparison.
It's not about how much money you've spent or how much I spent its the principle. The snake in the picture was absolutely beautiful , this is not. Even when she gets older , she's still going to have that unattractive white nose. Which, like I said, did not show in the picture. I don't like that trait that some yellow rats . Am I being picky.... at this point HECK YES, I deserve to be. Just because these aren't important things to YOU, does not make it irrelevant. I'm totally confident that if you had a problem with something I didn't care about, that you would still feel it mattered.
I like your reference to fine print, maybe the fine print should have said "our snakes are smaller than what would normally expected" then you could blame me.
I'm sorry that you don't trust the way I keep my snakes, I'm sorry you were offended by my using the term "picky eaters" , I didnt mean the snake was being spiteful and not eating for that reason, I use that as a term for those snakes that have some sort of situation that makes feeding more complicated, some eat at odd times of day, some are more prone to go off feed during certain times of year, some have definite preferences when it comes to the size and type of prey items. I'm sorry that I didn't realize that the snake wasnt secure enough to eat. I've spoken with many breeders who have said that as long as there were plenty of secure hides available that it would be ok.
and of course, after your long rant, you throw in the dig that what you said won't make a difference, and point out that its a trivial issue. trivial to YOU and a few people on here, not trivial to MANY others. But of course you don't care about them.
I wish I could enjoy what you think is a beautiful snake. Nobody over here thinks she is. If she looked like the one in the pic we'd think she's beautiful.

The animal's health would be better off with me. I will gladly pay for shipping.
 
Chris read my mind, as so many others that have posted already. If Chris ends up not wanting to buy it off you I will for the same price you paid. And I will update just as Chris suggested with photos in 6 months and then a year. I don't even work with Rat Snakes anymore but this is just ridiculous!

I can't believe this thread is still going on! And by the way if you look at Sunshine Serpents website and go to the page with the description of these Rat Snakes it clearly says at the top "Hatchlings range in price from $35-$55".
Yours is not a hatchling and it also states as quoted in this thread a couple times females are generally priced higher than males.

Is the snake small compared to other captive bred rat snakes YES. Is the snake unhealthy NO! I would rather have a snake that's healthy and small in comparison to other captives than overfed. There is nothing wrong with that snake and no one forced you to buy it! It's a young snake and it will grow just fine. I'm not sure why the size of the snake at this point in time is so important to you to cause this much grief. Is it the extra $10 that's bugging you?

Also when someone says the temps are fine and don't give them is always a red flag. Another one is using a glass tank with all 4 sides open and making the snake feel vulnerable. Try covering up all sides but the front with paper to make the snake feel more secure. I also have a hard time believing that you are actually leaving the snake alone as you can't leave this subject alone. The snake is being moved around held put in different tubs for pics being held for pics taken out to get a better look at the snake you feel was misrepresented some how. Snakes grow and if you want the snake to grow faster get a handle on your husbandry because it needs some work. I'm sure you will take that as a dig, it's not, I just don't have time to sugar coat.

What is actually your issue? And yes I read this thread although I wish I hadn't. You created this thread because you had to have that snake you got the snake and it's smaller than what you expected. That snake is more on par in size with its wild counter part. Yes you can feed the heck out of these things and they can reach 4-5' in the same amount of time. Is your snake stunted in anyway NO . If that were the case all wild snakes would be stunted because they're not being hand fed gourmet rodents twice a week. I have, as many others on this forum I'm sure have as well, paid hundreds and even thousands on a snake to have it show up with all kinds of health issues that are life threatening. And you are causing such a fuss because you think you paid $10 to $20 more than you should have on a beautiful healthy $60 rat snake because you think it should be larger.

My best advice to you is stop posting on this board bickering over such an irrelevant issue and spend that time researching and brushing up on your husbandry and how you can improve it. And if you think there is a problem with the snake why it's not feeding well that just shows you how much you don't no. Snakes want to eat, they want to live, they don't stop eating and die out of spite. Picky feeder is not a condition, the snake is telling you something isn't right whether it's the choice of food, the temps, the caging and all its furnishings. When a snake refuses to eat, everyone wants to blame the snake, saying it's a picky feeder, and the keeper never takes responsibility for what's going on. These are live animals not some toy you assumed came with batteries and you're pissed because the fine print was to fine stating batteries not included. Yes, some snakes will eat in a bucket of crap with no heat source and only offered hot dogs, while others will only eat if everything is absolutely perfect. When a healthy snake doesn't eat most of the time it's because they feel vulnerable. Since they eat such large meals compared to body size their mobility to flee in the face of danger is drastically reduced. Also having no appendages they're at a great disadvantage while in the process of eating. Their only defensive posture is to strike but with their prey half way in their mouth they become an easy target for a predator, unable to dash away into a hiding area and not able to defend itself either. So unless the snake isn't eating because of a health issue or you're offering a prey item that doesn't register with the snake, it's most likely its enclosure is not supporting it's basic needs like security. And 10 little hides in its cage is not security especially in a glass tank.

I have spent way to much time on this post already, if I thought what I said would actually make a difference I would continue. But this thread is already so long and over such a trivial issue that I'm bowing out even though I just stepped in. But stepping in was against my better judgment in the first place or I would have posted much sooner but after reading this whole thread from when it started I couldn't just be a spectator anymore. But back to the bleachers for me, good luck to all involved in this thread! And to the OP I hope you get over this and enjoy that beautiful rat snake!

AMEN!
 
while I'm not sure why its getting personal about the snakes being better off with someone else, especially since all my other snakes are healthy and thriving.
How is it that I all of the sudden became a terrible snake keeper?
Anyway, is it really safe to ship her , especially so soon after the trip she just made?
If you think its a good idea, and you are SURE that you are comfortable getting her feeding, then ok. BUT, I have never shipped an animal before so you will please have to walk me through it.
 
Hatchlings come in all sizes. I bought a pair of bullsnakes that were pricey and for good reason. Thirty years of collecting bull snakes and my favorites are what Daniel sent me. A pair of black Indiana bulls. Two completely different sizes. The runt looking, problem feeding "brown" female has become a robust, black and healthy Bull. I stand by Sunshine and won't hesitate do business with them. If anyone woulk like to see pics of the "runt" lol, I will text them to you. Pm me.
 
I've never seen a black bull, but I bet they are beautiful. I am a big fan of pits myself.
So you runt was 4 times smaller than normal?
 
Back
Top