Bad Guy Bad experience with Backwater Reptiles

[RichsBallPythons]

Issued refunds The buyer does not incur fees, but the seller sent the refund to you as a payment, therefore thats why you got hit with the fee. but $8.50 is a large fee so might be something else going on.

 

[SophieD]

Issued refunds The buyer does not incur fees, but the seller sent the refund to you as a payment, therefore thats why you got hit with the fee. but $8.50 is a large fee so might be something else going on.

Will pursue. I don't like to waste money, particularly for an item I never got.

Update: the Brazilian Rainbow boas are still listed as being available for sale on Backwater Reptiles' website.

 

[Ed Clark]

Update: the Brazilian Rainbow boas are still listed as being available for sale on Backwater Reptiles' website.

Thats a common practice for some, they probably sell a few every week and run out before they bring in more.

 

[Weda737]

I understand your issue, but I would like to say I have always had good experience with them. They are not my first choice as they are not breeders but any time I had an issue they were friendly and helpful. I placed an order for something that they were out of stock as well, we talked in emails about it and just put the money toward an older boa instead of the baby I originally ordered. It was all smooth and hassle free otherwise. I was told by Sam that they update their site on Fridays.

 

[LauraB]

Let me preface by saying, I have never ordered from Backwater and have no affiliation whatsoever with the owners or company. I likely would never order from Backwater, frankly. I want to SEE the actual animal I am purchasing, not a "representative" animal, and know the true lineage/history of an animal I am buying online. I also would not order from a vendor that did not offer a phone number (although they do offer a fax number) or a vendor that does not specialize in the animal I am interested in. I personally would not purchase from a retailer who gets their stock elsewhere (no judgement, just my preference). Plus I've seen previous Backwater reviews.

That said, seems to me they've covered their butts pretty well in their Shipping and Terms pages and it should be obvious from their site they are not breeders or a brick-and mortar-retailer also online, but rather just "middlemen".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://backwaterreptiles.com/shipping/reptile-shipping.html
"Inventory Management
We work hard to keep our website fully updated with current reptile, amphibian, and invertebrate stock levels. However, there are times when we receive multiple orders for the same animal, or our website just does not get updated quickly enough. In either case, we will notify you if we are unable to fulfill your order."

http://backwaterreptiles.com/orders/terms-and-conditions.html
The pictures on this website are simply representative of each species. This means the specific reptile, amphibian, or invertebrate you receive may or may not look identical or similar to the photographic depiction. Our available stock moves too quickly to provide us with an opportunity to constantly update online photos ...
To place an order with us, you must accept all terms and conditions of this website by clicking "Yes" during the checkout process. Rest assured, we are very reasonable and always work to keep our customers extremely pleased (not just satisfied)... Order at your own risk.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, all those terms/disclaimers/hoops were read, understood, jumped and a "Yes" button was still clicked.

As for the $8.50 fee you were not refunded, chalk it up to conversion. I can't go to Canada and purchase identical goods for the same US price; I can't go to Europe and pay the US price for identical goods; been there, done that. It's not exactly fair, but it's reality.

 

[hhmoore]

Issued refunds The buyer does not incur fees, but the seller sent the refund to you as a payment, therefore thats why you got hit with the fee. but $8.50 is a large fee so might be something else going on.

That was the first thing I thought...but the OP has identified the missing amount as PayPal's currency conversion fee. It isn't Backwater's responsibility to deal with, since they had nothing to do with it. I don't know the content of your deleted Facebook posts, but if you were griping at them about this fee, you were off base.
Contact PayPal and request that they refund their currency conversion fee...point out that the transaction was cancelled by the seller due to their inability to complete your order. Make the call during normal business hours to improve your chances of getting a customer service representative on this continent & you might get lucky. After that, consider updating the financials on your PayPal account if you're bothered that much by the fees.

 

[hhmoore]

Sorry - everything after the first two sentences of my previous post was directed toward the OP.

 

[LauraB]

the OP has identified the missing amount as PayPal's currency conversion fee. It isn't Backwater's responsibility to deal with

Exactly!

 

[Ed Clark]

Better communication on backwaters part could have avoided this thread. just an email when they received payment that they were out of stock then offer to refund would have put their customers mind at ease.

 

[SophieD]

That was the first thing I thought...but the OP has identified the missing amount as PayPal's currency conversion fee. It isn't Backwater's responsibility to deal with, since they had nothing to do with it. I don't know the content of your deleted Facebook posts, but if you were griping at them about this fee, you were off base.
Contact PayPal and request that they refund their currency conversion fee...point out that the transaction was cancelled by the seller due to their inability to complete your order. Make the call during normal business hours to improve your chances of getting a customer service representative on this continent & you might get lucky. After that, consider updating the financials on your PayPal account if you're bothered that much by the fees.

Thank you for your comment. I just want to make it clear, so that everyone who reads this thread knows: The $8.50 does not represent an issue for me as far as money is concerned. I was upset because all the delays, lost amount, and disappointment were the direct result of Backwater Reptiles' attitude towards my purchase. I paid on Thursday, I received an invoice from them the same day, but no word until Sunday about being out of stock. Then the refund took another two days to be finalized. My concerns were sourced from the seller's failure to notify me that they didn't have that particular snake, that it was listed on their website as being available, and that it stayed on the website as being in stock even though the vendor acknowledged their mistake in an email sent to me on Sunday. It is still available for purchase to this day, and I doubt that Backwater Reptiles managed to replenish the stock so fast. I believe that my financial loss, big or small, was due to their actions, even though they were not, in practical terms, responsible for it. The whole purpose of this thread was to make people aware who they are dealing with. I am sorry I have not thoroughly researched Backwater Reptiles before buying from them. I was lured by their cheap price, and the good reviews on Facebook and their site. But after purchasing my reptile from Rainbows R Us, even though I paid more for her, I couldn't be any happier. Genuine overnight service, a wonderful snake from a breeder, not a distributor, and the best assistance one could get.
As for my Facebook posts, I didn't bicker about the amount lost. I described my frustration (not any different from what you read above). I was very respectful, did not use any aggressive or inappropriate language or comments. If Backwater Reptiles were honest, they would have simply replied to my Facebook post to provide their own version of facts, instead of deleting my assertion and blocking me.

 

[SophieD]

Better communication on backwaters part could have avoided this thread. just an email when they received payment that they were out of stock then offer to refund would have put their customers mind at ease.

So correct!

 

[SophieD]

Let me preface by saying, I have never ordered from Backwater and have no affiliation whatsoever with the owners or company. I likely would never order from Backwater, frankly. I want to SEE the actual animal I am purchasing, not a "representative" animal, and know the true lineage/history of an animal I am buying online. I also would not order from a vendor that did not offer a phone number (although they do offer a fax number) or a vendor that does not specialize in the animal I am interested in. I personally would not purchase from a retailer who gets their stock elsewhere (no judgement, just my preference). Plus I've seen previous Backwater reviews.

That said, seems to me they've covered their butts pretty well in their Shipping and Terms pages and it should be obvious from their site they are not breeders or a brick-and mortar-retailer also online, but rather just "middlemen".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://backwaterreptiles.com/shipping/reptile-shipping.html
"Inventory Management
We work hard to keep our website fully updated with current reptile, amphibian, and invertebrate stock levels. However, there are times when we receive multiple orders for the same animal, or our website just does not get updated quickly enough. In either case, we will notify you if we are unable to fulfill your order."

http://backwaterreptiles.com/orders/terms-and-conditions.html
The pictures on this website are simply representative of each species. This means the specific reptile, amphibian, or invertebrate you receive may or may not look identical or similar to the photographic depiction. Our available stock moves too quickly to provide us with an opportunity to constantly update online photos ...
To place an order with us, you must accept all terms and conditions of this website by clicking "Yes" during the checkout process. Rest assured, we are very reasonable and always work to keep our customers extremely pleased (not just satisfied)... Order at your own risk.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, all those terms/disclaimers/hoops were read, understood, jumped and a "Yes" button was still clicked.

As for the $8.50 fee you were not refunded, chalk it up to conversion. I can't go to Canada and purchase identical goods for the same US price; I can't go to Europe and pay the US price for identical goods; been there, done that. It's not exactly fair, but it's reality.

You are perfectly right. The only reason I decided to buy from an online provider was that no pet store around Kissimmee, big or small, had any Brazilian Rainbow Boa available. Since I never had an experience with buying a reptile online, I only looked at the good reviews for Backwater Reptiles. Now I know better. I have researched them all too well after my sour experience with them, and even found allegations that they manufacture their good reviews.
I have now purchased a snake from a breeder, I've seen photos of the parents and the baby. It is so worth to pay the extra dollar, particularly when you know that you will have your reptile for a good 20 years.
As for the PayPal conversion, you are right, but as I said in an earlier reply to someone else, it is not the amount that bothers me, but the fact that the loss was the consequence of Backwater Reptiles' unprofessional actions.
Some have said in previous replies to my thread that I should expect delays, out-of-stock situations from reptile vendors, and that I shouldn't make a fuss about it. I beg to differ. My experience with Rainbows R Us (the place I ultimately bought my new snake from), showed me that there is genuine professionalism out there, that there are vendors who truly love what they're doing, and care for their customers as much as they care for their reputation.

 

[SophieD]

I understand your issue, but I would like to say I have always had good experience with them. They are not my first choice as they are not breeders but any time I had an issue they were friendly and helpful. I placed an order for something that they were out of stock as well, we talked in emails about it and just put the money toward an older boa instead of the baby I originally ordered. It was all smooth and hassle free otherwise. I was told by Sam that they update their site on Fridays.

To start with, I would not compromise about my choice just because they are out of stock. If they are out of stock, their website should reflect that, so they won't mislead their customers. Keeping down costs is not an excuse, nor should it be a substitute for quality.
They too offered me an adult snake instead. But the entire purpose of my purchase was to buy a baby snake and see it grow, make it bond with me when very young. Why should I compromise and pay for the vendor's mistake?
They may have been nice to you, but you didn't get what you paid for. I am sure that you chose a baby in the first place for a reason.
Updating their site on Fridays? What about the countless people who unsuspectingly pay for a product that isn't there then have their money blocked for 5 -6 days? Any respectable vendor would make sure that no such inconvenience occurs. One that is not respectable will care more for their pockets, and won't give a damn about the inconvenience and frustration of their customers. They will just keep deleting the bad reviews, when they can, and go on with selling unavailable products to other customers.

 

[deedeeiam]

Honestly, if I'm purchasing from a dealer, I always contact them and verify details before buying. I actually thought that was standard practice.

 

[predators]

Let me preface by saying, I have never ordered from Backwater and have no affiliation whatsoever with the owners or company. I likely would never order from Backwater, frankly. I want to SEE the actual animal I am purchasing, not a "representative" animal, and know the true lineage/history of an animal I am buying online. I also would not order from a vendor that did not offer a phone number (although they do offer a fax number) or a vendor that does not specialize in the animal I am interested in. I personally would not purchase from a retailer who gets their stock elsewhere (no judgement, just my preference). Plus I've seen previous Backwater reviews.

That said, seems to me they've covered their butts pretty well in their Shipping and Terms pages and it should be obvious from their site they are not breeders or a brick-and mortar-retailer also online, but rather just "middlemen".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://backwaterreptiles.com/shipping/reptile-shipping.html
"Inventory Management
We work hard to keep our website fully updated with current reptile, amphibian, and invertebrate stock levels. However, there are times when we receive multiple orders for the same animal, or our website just does not get updated quickly enough. In either case, we will notify you if we are unable to fulfill your order."

http://backwaterreptiles.com/orders/terms-and-conditions.html
The pictures on this website are simply representative of each species. This means the specific reptile, amphibian, or invertebrate you receive may or may not look identical or similar to the photographic depiction. Our available stock moves too quickly to provide us with an opportunity to constantly update online photos ...
To place an order with us, you must accept all terms and conditions of this website by clicking "Yes" during the checkout process. Rest assured, we are very reasonable and always work to keep our customers extremely pleased (not just satisfied)... Order at your own risk.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, all those terms/disclaimers/hoops were read, understood, jumped and a "Yes" button was still clicked.

As for the $8.50 fee you were not refunded, chalk it up to conversion. I can't go to Canada and purchase identical goods for the same US price; I can't go to Europe and pay the US price for identical goods; been there, done that. It's not exactly fair, but it's reality.

Excellent excellent excellent. Nomination for post of the year!!!
You hit the nail on the head.
Another analogy. ---If you want to go to Pet land to buy a dog you get too view multiple breeds of dogs at one location but, you are not going directly to the source of the actual breed of dog you want. If you want a particular breed, look online or in the newspaper and find a breeder. Nothing wrong with either option. Its just what someones preference is. Also, The Poster clicked the button and agreed to there terms and there disclaimers but now is upset? Probably just another case of someone not reading terms before choosing to buy and clicking the button without due diligence.

 

[predators]

Thank you for your comment. I just want to make it clear, so that everyone who reads this thread knows: The $8.50 does not represent an issue for me as far as money is concerned. I was upset because all the delays, lost amount, and disappointment were the direct result of Backwater Reptiles' attitude towards my purchase. I paid on Thursday, I received an invoice from them the same day, but no word until Sunday about being out of stock. Then the refund took another two days to be finalized. My concerns were sourced from the seller's failure to notify me that they didn't have that particular snake, that it was listed on their website as being available, and that it stayed on the website as being in stock even though the vendor acknowledged their mistake in an email sent to me on Sunday. It is still available for purchase to this day, and I doubt that Backwater Reptiles managed to replenish the stock so fast. I believe that my financial loss, big or small, was due to their actions, even though they were not, in practical terms, responsible for it. The whole purpose of this thread was to make people aware who they are dealing with. I am sorry I have not thoroughly researched Backwater Reptiles before buying from them. I was lured by their cheap price, and the good reviews on Facebook and their site. But after purchasing my reptile from Rainbows R Us, even though I paid more for her, I couldn't be any happier. Genuine overnight service, a wonderful snake from a breeder, not a distributor, and the best assistance one could get.
As for my Facebook posts, I didn't bicker about the amount lost. I described my frustration (not any different from what you read above). I was very respectful, did not use any aggressive or inappropriate language or comments. If Backwater Reptiles were honest, they would have simply replied to my Facebook post to provide their own version of facts, instead of deleting my assertion and blocking me.

You ordered on a THURSDAY. Please look at there site. If you order on Thursday your order is shipped on a Monday according to there shipping calendar. You clicked a button which lays out there disclaimers and terms. It means you read it and agreed to it. Now you are complaining because they did exactly what they were supposed to do???
They contacted you before there next available shipping date and two of those days are weekend days where they may be closed. If you ordered on Monday they would have contacted you before the next shipping day on there calendar which is a Tuesday so it would have been a shorter time period and you would not have been upset. However it just so happens you ordered on a Thursday which means for anyone ordering from them you must wait until Monday for it to be shipped and they contacted you with the out of stock notice before that. Honestly a lot of companies would have held your money up longer than they did. You should actually be thanking Backwater.
Also, If you think a company. Anyone in the reptile business or anyone with a small business is going to let you trash them or post negative feedback on there facebook site and not delete it than you may be a little nieve. Anyway, This is really a non issue. You received a good snake from another source that your happy with and your received a prompt refund and an out of stock notice very much in line with Backwaters Terms of Service. Everyone is a good guy in this transaction..

 

[predators]

And look at backwater there loving this. They get there name mentioned, free press, and its helping there position and S.E.O. on google.

 

[Ed Clark]

And look at backwater there loving this. They get there name mentioned, free press, and its helping there position and S.E.O. on google.

Dan just curious...how are you affiliated with backwater reptiles?

 

[Magic]

Dan just curious...how are you affiliated with backwater reptiles?

I'm wondering this as well!! Care to enlighten?

I certainly don't agree this is great press. Just because they cover their butts with their TOS doesn't make them a great place to deal with. Quite the contrary.

 

[Lucille]

Ebay has a software that keeps track of multiple identical items from the same seller, one actually cannot buy more than the seller has, if an attempt is made an error message shows up and the transaction is not completed. Other online companies have this as well. I do not know what the software costs but in terms of customer satisfaction, if this is an ongoing issue perhaps Backwater should look into it.
Hopefully this company is not leaving advertisements up for critters they do not have in the hopes that customers will buy something else from them when they find out after payment that the critter they want is not in stock, such bait and switch tactics are not legal in many jurisdictions.
While their TOS does address the possibility of running out of stock and not being able to fill an order, my feeling is that once they realize this has happened, in order for the advertisement to not appear like it might be a bait and switch, it should be removed until new stock arrives.