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Info Evan Stahl

Easy, Easy...lol. I quit crying yesterday....haha. I agreed that I should have asked before purchasing. I just assumed the Evan bred them, as it seemed he had a whold clutch he was selling. I just didn't think to. I said I accept the responses.

I guess this is what is accepted now. I mean, I wouldn't accept the answer given, but from what I'm reading here it's acceptable to say "They are CBB because Evan Stahl said they were...so there!" lol

Maybe I'm old school. People don't believe hearsay. They believe proof.

I'm only stating my opinion, which, according to this board, is absolutely wrong...by saying that if you advertise and sell something as CBB, it's just not good enough to say "because I said so".

To be given the answer that they HAVE to be CBB because there are no farm bred white lips, just isn't good enough. It's very possible that a gravid female could be imported and have very nice looking and healthy babies that could appear to be CBB, but they just aren't. I'm not naive enough to believe that every single baby white lip in the US is CBB.

Now, with that being said, Evan...I DO believe these are CBB. However, me believing it, and me proving it are 2 different things.

Unfortunately these threads get off topic at times. The point is not the animals being in good or bad condition. That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. The animals are nice and feeding, etc. All I questioned was the shadiness of the response I got to my question, and why all the attitude when I stated my situation. That's it. If this is common practice to believe just anything anyone says and take their word as gold, then so be it. I'm just saying that to me, that's unacceptable....and I'll go a bit further to say that I believe to many that would be unacceptable.
 
Why don't you tell your next customer they are CBB, purchased from Evan Stahl, and you can give him paperwork stating that. It is the truth, if they do not believe you, then they probably would not believe a piece of paper stating they were produced by....Joe Blo Reptiles...
 
I never doubted they were from the beginning. That wasn't the point of any of this. The point is not having any proof, and no one to refer a potential customer to, for when I want to trade or sell them to someone else. It's pretty hard to just say "because Evan told me they were...but he didn't produce them himself....Oh, and he won't tell me who did. Oh, and I have no proof otherwise...and because he's been in the business for 25 years you have to believe him". Obviously I can't send them to Evan, as so many of you are saying here. He has already, by his own admission, made mention that I have them posted for more than what I paid for them. The only way that would have come up in this thread is if it was in the conversation between my customer and him...which should have no place in a conversation between him and one of my customers. What I paid for them and what the market is on them are 2 different things. He has so much respect for this breeder that he guards with his life, yet so little respect for me that he would make mention to one of my potential customers what I paid for them when I send them his way. So, since he mentioned that, I can't steer anyone his way again. So, I'm on my own here and will have to advertise these as CH at best.

Thank you all again for your feedback and opening my eyes. I know to ask up front next time. :)
 
Morph72 said:
Nope. Just a breeder to refer someone to...
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And what would that do? I could walk into your house right now and say I bred them, then show you a random pic off Google of the "parents" or just one of my friends ltc pairs. Lineage records with pics and dates do help show evidence of a CB animal, but unless you were there then there's nothing set in stone. The pair looks great and honestly I may be contacting later about them...depending on how another sale goes. Good luck.

Vance Carmon
 
Morph72 said:
Nope. Just a breeder to refer someone to...
Click to expand...

How about that fact that they were babies?

Picking through the thread it was mentioned that they are very young..........any reasonable person who knows shib from shinola would put 2 and 2 together............and come to a reasonable conclusion.

Unless they were on a fishing expedition.
 
lol...I can't tell if you're just messing with me or not here. Come on...I simply asked for a breeder to give any potential customer better peace of mind. If you don't think there is a big difference between saying "Joe bred these and they hatched in February", and they contact Joe and he says "Yup, I bred these and I witnessed copulation and eggs were laid on this date and they hatched on this day, and they have taken to pinks right away, blah blah blah"..........vs. "I got them from Fred, but he didn't produce them, and he won't tell me who did, but he swears they are CBB, and that's all I got....", then I don't know what else to say. Paperwork or not, there is a huge difference in the psychology of those 2 scenarios! We're beating a dead horse. I'm slowly realizing that, according to this board, information on an animal means nothing to potential buyers.
 
The fact that they are babies means they could just as easily come from am imported gravid female. They would look the same...
 
Morph72 said:
Now, with that being said, Evan...I DO believe these are CBB. However, me believing it, and me proving it are 2 different things.
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Morph72 said:
peace of mind.
Click to expand...

So you don't really care about proof, do you. As long as you can fill in the blanks to make an easy sale. It was never about real proof, (because real proof unless you were there, is enormously difficult) it was about a customer who wiggled off the hook.
 
Okay, I understand a little better now.

It's not a mindset I relate with necessarily, but I understand it.

I like my customers to be able to contact me directly about the animals I produce, so that I know the animals are doing well, and so that I know they're getting good information if they have an issue. I don't stop caring about the welfare of my animals after they are out of my hands, and I sleep better at night knowing that the people who buy my animals will contact me if something happens.

I don't appreciate the "Believe it or not some people breed what they want to because they enjoy it and not for the name recognition or potential financial gain" comment, implying that I only breed snakes for profit or some kind of pseudo-fame. :rolleyes:

I will probably never wholesale my animals, but I understand the desire for anonymity if you are a wholesaler, and don't want to be responsible for the customer service after a person resells your animal. I'm sure if you produce hundreds of animals it wouldn't be realistic to handle every inquiry, question, or issue yourself.
 
Morph72 said:
What I paid for them and what the market is on them are 2 different things. He has so much respect for this breeder that he guards with his life, yet so little respect for me that he would make mention to one of my potential customers what I paid for them when I send them his way. So, since he mentioned that, I can't steer anyone his way again.
Click to expand...

I really have to have a small chuckle at your expense over this. You were so vehement that sellers should always give up the name of their suppliers, that there was never a reason to keep that info to one's self.

Yet here you are, saying that you now can't refer back to your supplier (Evan) because customers might find out that you flipped to them at a higher price and if they went to Evan direct they could get a better price, or they might find out exactly what kind of profit you were making on this deal.
Karma. It's so delicious.
 
Morph72 said:
Nope. Just a breeder to refer someone to...
Click to expand...

Why is it so hard for you to accept that the breeder doesn't seem to want to deal with the hassles of selling to the public, including being contacted by 3rd and 4th buyers to give them "peace of mind". He is under no obligation to do so; and Evan is not obligated to divulge the information you seek.
These aren't ball pythons - they aren't farmed, and their isn't an influx of gravid adult females each year.
 
No way they are cbb,unless it's a one of a kind python that doesn't lay eggs.Anyone know of a woman that hatched a baby from her womb?;)
 
I'm glad I have Lucille here, taking everything I say out of context...lol. It's not about an easy sale. It's about looking more credible. I have less than 10 animals. I am not in this as a business. I trade cool stuff. It's fun to me...however, people taking everything I say out of context, when deep down, they really know exactly what I'm trying to say, makes it not so fun.

I think my point has been made, and I'm sure somewhere deep down inside you, you know exactly what I'm saying, but you would rather twist my words and make a spectacle of it, because it creates more attention.

Take care all of you. :)
 
Morph72 said:
It's about looking more credible.
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If you are implying that there is anything about an animal from Evan that is less than credible, I disagree with you. You yourself even said that you believed they were CBB,(or I guess CH) that you never doubted it.

Your customer fished around and gave you a hard time. Next time let it roll off your back.
 
meowmeowkazoo said:
Okay, I understand a little better now.

It's not a mindset I relate with necessarily, but I understand it.

I like my customers to be able to contact me directly about the animals I produce, so that I know the animals are doing well, and so that I know they're getting good information if they have an issue. I don't stop caring about the welfare of my animals after they are out of my hands, and I sleep better at night knowing that the people who buy my animals will contact me if something happens.

I don't appreciate the "Believe it or not some people breed what they want to because they enjoy it and not for the name recognition or potential financial gain" comment, implying that I only breed snakes for profit or some kind of pseudo-fame. :rolleyes:

I will probably never wholesale my animals, but I understand the desire for anonymity if you are a wholesaler, and don't want to be responsible for the customer service after a person resells your animal. I'm sure if you produce hundreds of animals it wouldn't be realistic to handle every inquiry, question, or issue yourself.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was coming up with reasons in general as to why people do, not taking a swing at you. I apologize for the way I worded that.
 
Dennis Hultman said:
Sorry, I was coming up with reasons in general as to why people do, not taking a swing at you. I apologize for the way I worded that.
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I cut a couple of paragraphs out before I posted as it was pretty redundant. Much like my whole post stating the same thing over and over again. There where a few lines that stated "In General" and "if anyone wants to know more reasons" would have made it a little more broader as a general statement.

Poorly thought out and I'm sorry.
 
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