Bad Guy jordan russell..broker ..flipper,gone bad

[johnnycamp5]

That being said, this is the BOI and if Jordan wishes to retain his integrity here an accounting is due.

If this is to imply that, after reading these 16 pages, his integrity somehow needs to be retained...................
I,m not sure all who read this thread would agree.

Regards.

 

[Lucille]

I,m not sure all who read this thread would agree.

There are very few threads on the BOI where all agree on anything. By its nature, many of the threads have as their basis a disagreement.
An accounting should not be a big deal here, it should take only moments to do if decent records were kept.

 

[David Scarboro]

If this is to imply that, after reading these 16 pages, his integrity somehow needs to be retained...................
I,m not sure all who read this thread would agree.

Regards.

Until he makes a final accounting, his integrity will be questioned...............
I AM sure that many who read this thread would agree.

 

[Ed Clark]

Judging by the tone from Tibor at the end of his last post, it sounds like he concedes it's a done deal-

Don't think he had a choice John, after all the rosies and used cages were dropped off in the street in front of his home.

There was talk about Jordan trading Tibor's boas for gecko's. why did Tibor not receive them.

There are still many unanswered questions from Jordan.

 

[LauraB]

I've watched and listened through all this drama. I didn't contribute or say a word from day one, especially since my head was NOT leaning the direction that the majority was going and I've seen a whole lot of back peddling going on, especially now that Jordan has dumped a couple of Rosies and cages on the street; with photo proof of said dumping.

Yeah, there should have been an consignment contract; no adult in ANY business should have to be lectured about that!

Jordan ... regardless who backs you (and I know I will get negative hit points for my opinion), your "reputation", your public admission to owing Tibor; your empty promises; your procrastination and excuses and then your cowardly "dump-N-run" is telling enough.

Trading Tibor's snakes for geckos? Come on! Seriously?

Where are all these animals now?

 

[Lucille]

back peddling

I think there are some who are looking at this thread in a different way as it continues to progress. Changing one's opinion in the face of changing information is a positive quality.

That being said, I think some are waiting for additional information, there are still a lot of questions.

 

[Guy Castro]

If this is to imply that, after reading these 16 pages, his integrity somehow needs to be retained...................
I,m not sure all who read this thread would agree.

Regards.

Since he initiated this whole mess in the first place by contacting Tibor,needing some animals to broker,I say..... Hell yes he does!

 

[tim brophy]

The most glaring problem I see here is that California Breeders Union apparently does not have some sort of binding agreement with their clients which details conditions of the consignment agreement. Not a good way to conduct a business transaction. No one is protected.

 

[j_dunlavy]

Since he initiated this whole mess in the first place by contacting Tibor,needing some animals to broker,I say..... Hell yes he does!

I was under the impression that prior to this they were friends when Tibor and Jordan agreed to all this. Maybe I missed it but I did not see anything that specified who initiated the consignment.
That being said, Jordan's lack of accounting (publicly) on what was traded for what , from Tibor's boas to the rosy boas that were dropped off, does in fact raise some questions about Jordan's integrity. If it went down the way Jordan says, the trade trail should be easy to list. Also, The way everything was dumped on the curb was also quite unprofessional IMO; even if you are fighting with the person, you ought to at least make an effort to deliver things properly, using third parties if necessary.
However, I still don't think Tibor's yelling/name calling helped the situation at all and makes him appear a bit unstable... even if he is in the right.

The most glaring problem I see here is that California Breeders Union apparently does not have some sort of binding agreement with their clients which details conditions of the consignment agreement. Not a good way to conduct a business transaction. No one is protected.

absolutely spot on!

 

[Ed Clark]

Trust is a good old fashion value that should be honored and respected.

Tibor trusted Jordan to sell 25 boas, Jordan shafted Tibor, plain and simple.

He was not man enough to deliver the used cages and pr of rosies to Tibor's door, big time guilty feelings I guess?

 

[j_dunlavy]

Trust is a good old fashion value that should be honored and respected.

Tibor trusted Jordan to sell 25 boas, Jordan shafted Tibor, plain and simple.

He was not man enough to deliver the used cages and pr of rosies to Tibor's door, big time guilty feelings I guess?

True. Unfortunately, trustworthy people seem to be in short supply at times, hence the need for contracts.

it could be; it could also be he was afraid of Tibor after the language that was laid down in these threads.

 

[ShadowAceD]

People need to quit hanging onto the whole "he just dumped the caging off at the curb thing". That is what Tibor says, that is no guarantee that it happened in that manner. For all we know, Tibor met him at the curb and told him to set them down.

A lot of this is turning into he said/he said.

While I have no opinion on the deal overall, I will put this link here since a lot of this is about people being able to keep their word or go through on a deal (though just what the deal was in consignment or whatever appears to be murky):

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320935&highlight=tibor

A friendship ended over this, one that appeared to be in good standing considering Jordan came to Tibor's defense in the link provided above for his inability or desire to keep his end of a deal he made with someone and for his shopping a litter that had already been sold.

One has to wonder if it ever should have gotten to that point and if anything really is learned in all this.

 

[Guy Castro]

People need to quit hanging onto the whole "he just dumped the caging off at the curb thing". That is what Tibor says, that is no guarantee that it happened in that manner. For all we know, Tibor met him at the curb and told him to set them down.

A lot of this is turning into he said/he said.

While I have no opinion on the deal overall, I will put this link here since a lot of this is about people being able to keep their word or go through on a deal (though just what the deal was in consignment or whatever appears to be murky):

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320935&highlight=tibor

A friendship ended over this, one that appeared to be in good standing considering Jordan came to Tibor's defense in the link provided above for his inability or desire to keep his end of a deal he made with someone and for his shopping a litter that had already been sold.

One has to wonder if it ever should have gotten to that point and if anything really is learned in all this.

Thanks for the link! Now I have peace of mind knowing that many say he's a decent person(not that I didn't research him first and see the link). Can't wait to get the pair of rosies I just purchased,that JR tossed on the curb with the cages.

If I were making money with someone elses animals,would you come to their defense too!

 

[Paul Kent]

Trading Tibor's snakes for geckos? Come on! Seriously?
?

Hey now. You might be surprised to know what some variety of geckos go for

 

[DaveyFig]

Hey now. You might be surprised to know what some variety of geckos go for

A pair of Rosy boas?

 

[Paul Kent]

A pair of Rosy boas?

I don't follow rosy boas so I don't have a clue what they're worth. I was just making the point the just because theyre geckos doesn't mean that the boas were traded away for nothing. Some species/morph can fetch more than most boas.

 

[DaveyFig]

Oh, I know, I am sure most of the stuff Jordan has is worth far more than common morph boas. It looks like the rosy boas are worth a pretty penny too. We don't know which boas were traded for which geckos, and which of those (if not all) were traded for rosy boas, and so on. I think if Jordan provides that trail, it will be easy to see that he did what he could to satisfy Tibor by making appropriate trades and not personally gaining from them.

 

[David Scarboro]

Jordan, you visited the site yesterday and I know you are aware of the requests to provide an accounting. If you did the right thing by Tibor then come and share it with us. Your silence is speaking volumes. Only you can put this to rest.

 

[California Breeders Union]

I want to apologize to anyone I haven't been responding to... there is a lot going on and mentally I just needed a break from everything.

I know it sounds very "weak and petty", but it is incredibly disheartening and depressing to have someone make up outright lies about you and to see a group of people chime in and make wild assertions seemingly taking pleasure in hurting you for no reason.

For the people who've been following this fiasco who now question my integrity, I wish I had some magical statement which would put your mind at ease.... but ultimately you know me, or you don't. Those who do know me know that I am honest and fair. I care about our community and our hobby, and I am not the type to exploit someone.

First and foremost I want to make a few things clear.

1.) There was no funny business, animals were consigned.
A.) Animals were consigned at Tibor's request, not mine.
B.) I was done brokering, had recently started a new company (www.BreederSource.com) and I did not believe that I would need to continue supplementing my income with brokering any longer (something which I am not particularly fond of doing. I love raising animals, but I do not like participating in the sales side, nor the selling for other people side).
C.) Tibor requested help selling animals due to a situation he was in, and having known him for many years I felt bad not helping. Particularly since he was about to start helping me with an apprenticeship in falconry.
D.) BreederSource has not done well and I eventually began brokering again.
E.) At his approval the boas which were not selling were traded for a group of fat tailed geckos, these were eventually traded to a friend in Arizona for a group of Rosy Boas. I received additional rosy boas and alterna in additional trade in credit. This was simply due to the fact that the geckos were not selling, when something isn't selling trading it for something else to attempt to sell is a common practice. The rosy boas someone linked to on fauna for a $1,500 sale price was a 1.1 yearling pair, the pair Tibor owned (and received) was not this pair and was a young mature pair.
F.) When Tibor emailed me again, I was weeks away from receiving a shipment from the Solomon Islands which was a combination of animals for myself and some to resell. For anyone who's dealt with this part of the world, and/or importation you know sometimes things don't go well. A quick Google search of that area would explain about half of what has caused delays. That is neither here nor there, I offered to pay the tab on the consigned animals just to end this. I had no obligation to pay it, other than to myself and my own peace of mind by not having Tibor in my life.
G.) When this failed to occur, Tibor posted me on fauna again, more name calling, more wild statements and more untruths.
H.) I had enough of it all, and although I had previously requested in both email, on the phone and via fauna for him to simply take back his animals I wasn't taking no for an answer. I emailed him telling him that I would be dropping them off on Tuesday at 4:30 and posted this publicly on fauna. I even offered for him to trade for OTHER animals than what was actually his just to make it easier. He declined.
I.) Tuesday at 4:15 I showed up with 2 friends and my wife, cages in tow animals packaged properly glass wrapped in Styrofoam.
J.) Tibor's house is in an area with dirt roads and dirt driveways, his gate goes to the exterior entrance at the street. This gate was closed and locked. I was not stepping foot on his property on my own. This would be rude, and I believe also illegal.
K.) By the time the first cage was unloaded Tibor was standing next to us watching us unload the cages. By the time the last cage was unloaded his son was on the other side of the gate watching.
L.) I set the box of snakes on the cages we exchanged eye contact, and I walked back to the car and we left.
M.) There was no rushing, there was no dumping, and he was most certainly present for the interaction yet made no comments and said nothing.
N.) I certainly didn't feel obligated to help him set up the cages, and share lunch with the man after this ordeal. But that is in no way a dump and run as he's described.
O.) Tibor received no less, and no more than what he was owed, although he was offered more than what he was owed as a peace offering - this was declined.
P.) In spite of the threats to me, my friends, breaking into my community, assertions made about my integrity, and the name calling I have stayed peaceful, humble and kind throughout this. I have taken advantage of and robbed no one. I simply eventually stood my ground and insisted that he take back his property once it become overwhelmingly clear that were was no way to attain a resolution.

It bothers me greatly that my name is being drug through the mud on this, I value my name, I value how the community views me, as I work very hard to improve our community. I devote sleepless nights routinely on projects to help USARK, to assist people with access to disease prevention and testing through The Model Herpetoculturist Program, helping young people and non-profits (for free) build websites to get exposure to help their cause and it truly upsets me to see that all of that can be thrown away over some untrue assertions made by a handful of people and repeated as though they are true....eventually being believed.

I have no interest in marginalizing the board of inquiry, certain people commenting, or Tibor for that matter. Tibor is angry, and although I believe he has been unreasonable throughout this entire situation he is not a bad person. He was unreasonable in this situation (in my eyes) no more no less, disagree with me on my handling of this situation all you want, but to marginalize and vilify another person over a disagreement over how YOU would handle a bad situation just comes across as hateful and mean spirited. I have defended Tibor in the past, even when I disagreed with him. There have been numerous threads in the past here on fauna where there were issues between people and I went out of my way to help, by picking up animals and shipping them to customers and also retrieving stolen property and shipping it to the rightful owner. Pretending that because Tibor and I do not agree over this deal trumps my character is simply offensive.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

After seeing myself how selflessly Jordan has supported the reptile community lately, how active he has been in supporting USARK with no personal gain from it, I am more inclined to believe his side of the story. I'd like to see the people passing judgment on him do even half of what he has for the community, but I doubt that will ever happen. Actions speak louder than words, and Jordan's actions in the past and present have been nothing less than commendable. He has done a lot of good for people who will never understand or appreciate it. The least we can do is give him the benefit of the doubt in a he said/she said situation, instead of circling like vultures over a wounded animal. I'm disappointed.