Bad Guy Beware of Panther Company

[Panther Company]

That ad for the lot of f1s from the two WC Falys was from the same pairing that the animal the OP is posting about -- so it was advertised correctly, and the purchaser understands what it means to buy f1 offspring from two WCs when the seller discloses that the oldest male from the pair is 6 months and that's the only way we're judging purity of the female (just as disclosed to the OP).

 

[choppers1]

U haven't answer the question, why did u have to delete it?

 

[choppers1]

If u don't have anything to hide, u didn't have to delete it.

 

[Panther Company]

We delete ads often after selling because people don't pay attention to the "SOLD" status and keep contacting us anyway, especially when animals/groups are priced to move.

We have no issues with any mods resurrecting the post and do not deny including a picture of the older sibling in the ad.

 

[choppers1]

U deleted right after everything came out. Quite a coincidence.

 

[Panther Company]

You guys have obviously worked on a narrative that you want to tell.

I think everyone involved that was a customer and was dissatisfied has been issued a full refund, or was offered one and refused. If I'm wrong, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Thank you.

 

[jishillencik]

Not one of us is denying being issued a full refund. I asked for proof of Panther Company initiating contact with and disclosing the truth to the customers that purchased an offspring from the "Grimbold" females you received from a third party. In the email to Shauna (presented on page 1 of this BOI) explaining the lineage of Gojira and the male resold as f1 faly, you state that you were going to notify every customer effected by your mistake. I'm sorry but assurances will not do and your perspective is simply an opinion without evidence to back it up.

 

[Ronstafari]

Yes you did say that you buy the clutch after I raised them to twelve weeks but after asking for pics that I never got you and Vince decided to just but him back. And if course it would make much more sense to just but him back versus giving away a female and then two years later buying the entire clutch. A lot can happen in two years. But why not pics of the animals.

 

[shaunaroxanne]

You guys have obviously worked on a narrative that you want to tell.

I think everyone involved that was a customer and was dissatisfied has been issued a full refund, or was offered one and refused. If I'm wrong, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Thank you.

I'm sorry if I am incorrect, but isn't the BOI a place weher we are supposed to be providing evidence for our statements? We have provided evidence for all of our statements, so would you be willing to provide evidence that you did, indeed, contact all the people who purchased a Cyclone/Grimbold offspring, as you stated that you were going to do? Could you provide us with evidence that you bought the "Grimbold" females from the CF member who represented them to you as Grimbold females? Several of us have asked you to reveal the name of that CF member so that we could inquire about the lineage of the animals we purchased from you, but you have never been willing to say who you purchased those animals from. If you would have disclosed that piece of information, any one of us could have contacted Ed Kammer to ask him if he did in fact sell females to that individual. Better yet, did YOU ever contact Ed to ask him if your supplier ever purchased 3 Grimbold females? I know that if I accidentally sold females of mispreresented lineage, I would be on the phone to everyone I could contact to try to find out the source of the actual lineage. Please don't say you don't like revealing information about your clients, because you were very willing to share information about Lam to me before I had ever even heard his name (you'll see evidence of that tidbit in my screenshots).

As far as the claim that we "worked on a narrative", I'm 100% sure you have no supporting evidence for that. Did we speak, to make sure that we were presenting only facts and to make sure we all were making informed decisions? Absolutely. Nobody wanted to come on here and waste people's time by presenting inaccurate information. Did we "work on a narrative"? No, there is no narrative here, we all just presented factual evidence. I had never even spoken to Lam or Ron prior to these issues. There is no need for you to try to flip this to make it look like we conspired to write a narrative together to try to bring you down.

 

[choppers1]

Did you or did you not know that you were selling me an F1 faly that was previously label as an ambanja?

 

[jishillencik]

We delete ads often after selling because people don't pay attention to the "SOLD" status and keep contacting us anyway, especially when animals/groups are priced to move.

We have no issues with any mods resurrecting the post and do not deny including a picture of the older sibling in the ad.

These ads posted by Panther Company seem like they've sold and were priced to move, yet the thread was not deleted.

 

[jishillencik]

I'm sorry if I am incorrect, but isn't the BOI a place weher we are supposed to be providing evidence for our statements? We have provided evidence for all of our statements, so would you be willing to provide evidence that you did, indeed, contact all the people who purchased a Cyclone/Grimbold offspring, as you stated that you were going to do? Could you provide us with evidence that you bought the "Grimbold" females from the CF member who represented them to you as Grimbold females? Several of us have asked you to reveal the name of that CF member so that we could inquire about the lineage of the animals we purchased from you, but you have never been willing to say who you purchased those animals from. If you would have disclosed that piece of information, any one of us could have contacted Ed Kammer to ask him if he did in fact sell females to that individual. Better yet, did YOU ever contact Ed to ask him if your supplier ever purchased 3 Grimbold females? I know that if I accidentally sold females of mispreresented lineage, I would be on the phone to everyone I could contact to try to find out the source of the actual lineage. Please don't say you don't like revealing information about your clients, because you were very willing to share information about Lam to me before I had ever even heard his name (you'll see evidence of that tidbit in my screenshots).

As far as the claim that we "worked on a narrative", I'm 100% sure you have no supporting evidence for that. Did we speak, to make sure that we were presenting only facts and to make sure we all were making informed decisions? Absolutely. Nobody wanted to come on here and waste people's time by presenting inaccurate information. Did we "work on a narrative"? No, there is no narrative here, we all just presented factual evidence. I had never even spoken to Lam or Ron prior to these issues. There is no need for you to try to flip this to make it look like we conspired to write a narrative together to try to bring you down.

There seems to be some evidence missing from the record. Allow me to fill in the gaps in our "narrative". I have attached a conversation between Josh Pritchard and myself that shows at least one person requested the name of the third party to verify the lineage with Kammerflage Kreations. The screenshots are a continuation of the previous conversation regarding Choppy's boy, T-Rex.

We are still waiting for proof that Panther Company contacted other individuals that purchased lines labeled as Grimbold from the third party females...

 

[Panther Company]

The original seller that we got the first three "Grimbold" females from never responded to my emails asking if he could forward the email Kammerflage that sends confirming purchases (like we have for our other females from them). If he had, it would have saved us a lot of headache and -- quite frankly -- money. However, I was not surprised by a nonresponse, since the females were sold to us almost two years ago.

Anyway, we took responsibility for not being able to defend the lineage we'd advertised on this handful of animals. We went straight to offering/granting full refunds to all customers involved.

No other dissatisfied customers have surfaced since this BOI has been up -- nor from months of posts in the Facebook chameleon groups by various posters on this thread prior to its creation.

 

[jishillencik]

The original seller that we got the first three "Grimbold" females from never responded to my emails asking if he could forward the email Kammerflage that sends confirming purchases (like we have for our other females from them). If he had, it would have saved us a lot of headache and -- quite frankly -- money. However, I was not surprised by a nonresponse, since the females were sold to us almost two years ago.

Anyway, we took responsibility for not being able to defend the lineage we'd advertised on this handful of animals. We went straight to offering/granting full refunds to all customers involved.

No other dissatisfied customers have surfaced since this BOI has been up -- nor from months of posts in the Facebook chameleon groups by various posters on this thread prior to its creation.

If you have emails, I would love to see them. I do not expect you to betray the confidence of the third party. Simply black out the name but leave the content with a time stamp so we can all see an attempt was indeed made.

Thanks

 

[jishillencik]

It is true no other dissatisfied customers have spoken up since the start of this BOI neither have the moderators but just because they have not spoken up does not imply that they do not exist. (FACT)

 

[jishillencik]

Has Panther Company any proof of reaching out to other customers that may have purchased a Cyclone/Grimbold offspring??

It has been well over a day since the last post and several things still need to be addressed:

1) Does Panther Company have proof that customers with questionable lines have been notified of their mistake and not mislead??

2) Panther Company has yet to answer Lam Do's question that directly followed the quoted text

3) Has Panther Company any proof that they tried to contact the third party (or any other parties) to verify the lineage on the "Grimbold" females they purchased??

4) Why did Panther Company delete a single for sale ad (one that could potentially be viewed as evidence) and not other ads that were obviously priced to move from around the same time frame??

Panther Company has however provided baseless conjecture and a skillful demonstartion of manipulating the English language. (Fact)

Kudos.

 

[Panther Company]

Josh, it hadn't even been 24 hours (Fact)

But, I am not going to go through the effort of taking a bunch of screenshots to show I emailed someone to ask if they had any proof about the lineage of their animals. Nor am I going to post screenshots of anonymized emails and try to convince you that they cover an exhaustive list of customers that might have purchased animals from the clutches in question. There's simply no reason to go through the trouble. You have already shown that you intend to keep this post active even if there's no substance to it.

Panther Company hasn't scammed anyone.

We have never sent someone an unhealthy animal.

And, for the handful of dissatisfied customers we've had, we have never refused to issue full refunds.

Thank you

 

[choppers1]

U sure about never sending unhealthy animal? you want to retract that statement or not? or you want me to refresh your memory?
You havent scammed anyone But you did lied about lineage. No substance? you havent even answer my question yet. Did you or did you not know if it was the same animal?

 

[robmd1]

it isn't just about you offering refunds for knowingly lying to people, its more about the lies you tell people josh then back peddle when you get caught.. you knew what you sent choppy you just hopped no one would notice its the same cham you sold before as an ambanja.. its kina sad that people seem to be ok with you an your company ruining everyones lines all so you can make a buck to pay the sponsorships.. anyone serious about breeding pure locale chameleons need to stay way clear of you an your company.. wheres all the crossed mitsios you've sold knowing they are crossed ? looks like Jessica got two of them

 

[jishillencik]

Josh, it hadn't even been 24 hours (Fact)

But, I am not going to go through the effort of taking a bunch of screenshots to show I emailed someone to ask if they had any proof about the lineage of their animals. Nor am I going to post screenshots of anonymized emails and try to convince you that they cover an exhaustive list of customers that might have purchased animals from the clutches in question. There's simply no reason to go through the trouble. You have already shown that you intend to keep this post active even if there's no substance to it.

Panther Company hasn't scammed anyone.

We have never sent someone an unhealthy animal.

And, for the handful of dissatisfied customers we've had, we have never refused to issue full refunds.

Thank you

My apologies, it's been well over 24 hours since the first time I requested that you backed up your conjecture. (Fact)

With over 2800 views so far, one would think it would be in your best interest to post even one screenshot to exonerate yourselves. No one has accused you here of sending out unhealthy animals so I do not know where that is coming from but it certainly is interesting that you make mention of it. (Opinion)

The issue and this BOI has never been centered around refunds but rather dishonesty and lack of accountability to any other customers that may be misinformed.